PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Austinlee]

PNC Center (Formerly the local National City Bank HQ) could be sold.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...e-tower-at-20-stanwix-could-be-sold.html



At first glance this building seems to be a weird, dated design. But don't judge so fast. It was actually designed by famed architectural firm SOM (Skidmore, Owings & Merrill) of Chicago. I challenge you to walk up the building and notice the white facade is actually a pretty cool white marble.

[BrianTH]

A few simple observations make completing the MFE an obviously poor idea:

(1) We should prioritize providing transportation infrastructure where there is already proven, unmet need, rather than where you would need the project to stimulate large amounts of new development outside the current development footprint in order to supply sufficient demand to justify the expenditure, and the MFE in particular has always depended on the expectation of such development to create its promised benefits (indeed, all that promise of new development is still threaded through the article linked above);

(2) Highway lanes are a very low peak capacity transportation technology, so even if new development did eventually fill up the MFE, you'd end up capped at a relatively low benefit for the cost;

(3) And finally, all the projections of highway demand using the old models have overshot dramatically and increasingly in recent years, largely because they are based on very old data that fails to account for recent experience, which means it is almost certain the MFE would never actually come close to meeting its original expected usage.

The bottomline is that you shouldn't be spending billions of dollars on transportation infrastructure without a very thoughtful, data-driven, reasonably up-to-date cost-benefit analysis, and if you subject completing the MFE to such a cost-benefit analysis, it will fail miserably. It is simply broken politics and a lot of special interests looking to line their pockets that is keeping it alive, not rational transportation policy.

Edit: This is a good chart to keep in mind in these discussions:



What it shows is how the DOT's projections of total VMT in the U.S. have been way off track in recent years, but all they keep doing is resetting the line, and as a result they just keep getting it wrong again.

The reason this is useful to keep in mind is that things like the MFE were planned based on those old expectations of how total VMT were supposed to grow, basically on the assumption that the Pittsburgh region would be participating in those trends. So conversely, once you realize the old VMT projection model is broken, then OF COURSE you must reassess old projects like the MFE. And again, under any sort of reasonable, up-to-date analysis, there is no way its massive costs could be justified.

[Minivan Werner]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

Maybe it's not another North Side, but the terrain that this highway would have to cross is insane to say the least. Forget $1.7 Billion dollars, my money is on it landing somewhere between $3-$5 billion dollars when it's done. And in its current state, the highway carries less than 5,000 cars per day. Wouldn't that money be better spent injecting capital into the distressed areas, or even upgrading their infrastructure so it doesn't come toppling down.

But, that would be stupid, right?

I think you're right. Its trajectory really goes against the grain of the land, so you're either going to have a lot of sharp bends and steep grades, which is a hazard to the motorists and slows traffic flow, or you're going to have a lot of cuts into hillsides and bridges over valleys, which is going to jack up the cost.

[Urbana]

The city is seeking public input on whether to change the color of the "Three Sisters" bridges.

Article:
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/06/1...h-in-on-paint-colors-for-sister-bridges/

[DBR96A]

Originally Posted by SkyPittsburgh

Maybe it's not another North Side, but the terrain that this highway would have to cross is insane to say the least. Forget $1.7 Billion dollars, my money is on it landing somewhere between $3-$5 billion dollars when it's done. And in its current state, the highway carries less than 5,000 cars per day. Wouldn't that money be better spent injecting capital into the distressed areas, or even upgrading their infrastructure so it doesn't come toppling down.

But, that would be stupid, right?

Actually, if you look at the exact alignment proposed, you'll see that the highway would run through ravines for most of its length, so the cost of earth-moving really wouldn't be as outlandish as people would expect of a highway in a mountainous area. If it was really going against the terrain, there'd be a tunnel somewhere along the proposed alignment. As it is, the only real engineering feat would be building a high bridge over the Monongahela River.

And though some beg to differ, the highway actually wouldn't be totally useless. It's not very high on my list of transportation priorities in the Pittsburgh area, but it would provide direct access to the brownfields in the Mon Valley that are otherwise accessible only by narrow back roads. Industry likes to locate near highways, especially since it tends to produce a lot of truck traffic. It's why Shell wants to build its petrochemical refinery right off I-376 in Monaca. It's also why the vast majority of automotive assembly plants and distribution warehouses are right next to Interstates, and even have their own interchanges in many cases. A highway serving the Mon Valley would unlock a motherload of brownfields that'd otherwise remain abandoned because they're not convenient to anywhere, and because much of the road network nearby can't handle trucks.

[Private Dick]

Have I ever made it clear how much I hate the 2-tone paint job they did on BNY Mellon?



Why the 2-tone? It's bad.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by DBR96A

A highway serving the Mon Valley would unlock a motherload of brownfields that'd otherwise remain abandoned because they're not convenient to anywhere, and because much of the road network nearby can't handle trucks.

Even if that worked, that would mostly amount just to moving future site locations of such highway-oriented developments from somewhere else in the the region (heck, we are still far from fully developing just the area around the airport), which isn't a sufficient justification for billions in expenditures.

If we really want to help out the existing communities in the Mon Valley, as opposed to just shuffling highway-oriented development around and thereby lining the pockets of specific contractors and land developers, the best approach would be to invest in improving the Mon Valley's radial connections to the core area. That could include upgraded boulevard-style roads, and improved rapid transit (two things which in fact could be done in conjunction in many cases).

[JVC]

if you think bakery square 2.0's fort pitt tunnel-like upper floor hallways are great

then you're gonna love the similarly shaped Fort Willow project in the strip



Bakery Strip

[East Edge]

Originally Posted by Urbana

The city is seeking public input on whether to change the color of the "Three Sisters" bridges.

Article:
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2015/06/1...h-in-on-paint-colors-for-sister-bridges/

Sea Foam Green!

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Have I ever made it clear how much I hate the 2-tone paint job they did on BNY Mellon?



Why the 2-tone? It's bad.

Have i ever made it clear how much I like that photo?

[GeneW]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Have I ever made it clear how much I hate the 2-tone paint job they did on BNY Mellon?



Why the 2-tone? It's bad.

You can see my house from here. (In the lower right about three blocks north of Heinz Field.

[Minivan Werner]

I've seen some people elsewhere (Twitter, Facebook) talk like painting the bridges something other than gold/yellow would be sacrilegious. I think with some exceptions (Ft. Pitt & Ft. Duquesne, West End Bridge) different colors other than yellow & sea foam green would be awesome. Not only would it liven up the area and just look cool, but it'd be much better for getting around and giving out-of-towners directions ("turn right onto the Red bridge", "if you're on the Purple bridge you've gone too far", etc.) Perhaps the medium ground would be keeping them yellow but giving them different lighting schemes/LED colors for at night?

Any sea foam / sky blue bridges need to go, though. That's an ugly, dated color that doesn't age well.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

I've seen some people elsewhere (Twitter, Facebook) talk like painting the bridges something other than gold/yellow would be sacrilegious. I think with some exceptions (Ft. Pitt & Ft. Duquesne, West End Bridge) different colors other than yellow & sea foam green would be awesome. Not only would it liven up the area and just look cool, but it'd be much better for getting around and giving out-of-towners directions ("turn right onto the Red bridge", "if you're on the Purple bridge you've gone too far", etc.) Perhaps the medium ground would be keeping them yellow but giving them different lighting schemes/LED colors for at night?

Any sea foam / sky blue bridges need to go, though. That's an ugly, dated color that doesn't age well.

You're gonna have plenty of people who are afraid of change. I like the yellow but I'm not going to say there aren't other colors that would look as good or better.

[Grego43]

Originally Posted by DBR96A

Industry likes to locate near highways, especially since it tends to produce a lot of truck traffic. It's why Shell wants to build its petrochemical refinery right off I-376 in Monaca. It's also why the vast majority of automotive assembly plants and distribution warehouses are right next to Interstates, and even have their own interchanges in many cases. A highway serving the Mon Valley would unlock a motherload of brownfields that'd otherwise remain abandoned because they're not convenient to anywhere, and because much of the road network nearby can't handle trucks.

You nailed it, DBR96A. There are literally MILES of flat, fallow, buildable land along the river banks in the Mon Valley that would be perfect for large-scale industrial development...or would you folks rather they be built on virgin land in the exburbs, increasing sprawl?

[dfiler]

Building roads in hope of development is exactly the opposite of what the Pittsburgh region needs. Instead it is better to spend money on infrastructure where it is actually needed. The current renaissance distinguishing the burgh from other rust belt cities wasnt related to wishful suburban development funding. It is better served by supporting the urban center that is attracting the younger generation, med, ed and high tech companies.

Encouraging expensive sprawl is a step backward even if it could potentially bring in jobs. The same can be accomplished without ludicrously expensive roads that aren't currently needed. Light rail from downtown through Oakland and into squirrel hill or farther would be transformative. It would truly make pittsburgh into a world class city. Another highwaywould have little effect other than costing money.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Grego43

You nailed it, DBR96A. There are literally MILES of flat, fallow, buildable land along the river banks in the Mon Valley that would be perfect for large-scale industrial development...or would you folks rather they be built on virgin land in the exburbs, increasing sprawl?

I'd rather any such development, to the extent it happens, to go along the regional highways we already built for those purposes. For example, as I noted before, we built all these highways to and around the airport to open up that area for development. Why don't we see how that actually goes before building billions in more in such highways?

Of course if you are expecting an explosion of "large-scale industrial development" sufficient to utilize many miles and miles of land anywhere in the region, you are probably going to be waiting a long time (like maybe forever). There are only so many site locations like that going on these days, and the Pittsburgh region no longer has any particular advantage in attracting them. And certainly overbuilt highways through undeveloped areas will not exactly distinguish us from all the other regions which have built such highways in an attempt to chase their own pieces of what has turned out to be a disappointingly small pie.

Here is an idea--rather than trying to bring back the Mon Valley on the same industrial model as it was developed in the past, which ultimately collapsed because it became an anachronism, why don't we think in terms of a sustainable, forward-looking approach for the Mon Valley? That would require focusing on supporting existing communities in the Mon Valley with the sort of radial transportation links that would allow them to participate more fully in the thriving core area economy, as another poster described above. In other words, build toward the proven strengths of the region's current economy, not on the hope of turning back the clock.

The problem is that there are all these well-connected contractors expecting to get billions in highway construction contracts, and in Pennsylvania, that is enough to keep a project whose original expectations have long since proven grossly overinflated churning along.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Have i ever made it clear how much I like that photo?

Yeah, it is a pretty awesome shot of the Golden Triangle and beyond.

Here are more from the set:

Love this view of Oakland, not sure I've seen it from this angle before:


Northside-Mexican War Streets:


Oh the potential!:


Is that Allegheny County airport in the center in the distance?:


PNC Tower making its mark:



These are all from the latest Pittsburgh Magazine.
http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-o...ous-Pictures-from-High-Above-Pittsburgh/

[eschaton]

Love that Oakland view. It really highlights how close Sugar Top is to Oakland. I've often wondered why it's continuing its slow decline, given it's relatively intact, has some good housing stock, and is so well positioned to serve as an accessory neighborhood to Oakland.

[Urbana]

Stumbled across this old postcard depicting East Liberty from the air. I was immediately smacked in the face with what could have been - enough to pretty much ruin my day. So anyway, I thought I would share the despair with you all!



http://www.atticpostcards.com/images/LH97/057.html#pic2

[Brentsters]

Except the building at penn and highland (which is definitely a loss), pretty much all the buildings surrounding the church are still there. Even a lot of the background buildings on broad are still there, just under-utilized. It's pretty much the donut surrounding the core that was really decimated.

There's something about old postcards and their scale that makes things seem a little different.