PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[iheartphilly]

Agreed. Tourists and the local residents will use it. I have no doubts it will be a nice place to browse and shop...maybe even grab a bit.

[MikeNigh]

Originally Posted by McBane

I don't get the pushback on this project. Yea, it's a mall. But so what? What were you guys expecting? 5th Ave type shops? A Dubai-type super mall? Please give an example.

It seems to be a failed idea that it would become the metro's go to mall because of the regional rail stop. Philly doesn't need a major mall on market street, chestnut and walnut are examples of how philly would rather do shopping.

[Kidphilly]

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/District30_Concepts_Survey

Link for feedback on the 30th street plan feedback closes July 17th

[1487]

Originally Posted by cafeguy

Every big city has a premier movie theater right downtown. This is probably the only location that would make sense and support it, yet, there is no talks about it. From the looks of it, its developers saying, "Millenials love open air fancy restaurants and fancy retail. Let's do that." It'll work, but for the amount of money being invested into it, not having some sort of attraction like a movie theater will make the improvements not as strong.

Agreed on a CC theater location. I don't understand why its not being considered here. I was in baltimore and they have a modern, urban multiplex right near the inner harbor. People are saying no one goes the movies anymore (or numbers are declining) and thus its not a sound investment and yet other cities have relatively new facilities right downtown.

[Cro Burnham]

1487'll love this . . . but opening a downtown multiplex is probably way too risky for most developers' tastes given the possibility of renewed youth group misbehavior that checkered Center City's mainstream movie showing history in the 80s and 90s.

You don't like to hear this, but any amemity that attracts large groups of potentially unruly youngsters, particularly at night, poses a lot of downside and very little upside for developers in urban settings. Traditional multiplex theaters are not massive profit-makers to begin with, will do little to increase the value of adjacent assets, and may even lower them if the theaters become teen magnets or the site of unfortunate youth incidents. This is no big deal when the theater is surrounded by a sea of parking and off ramps with minimal opportunity to spread beyond the parking lot, but in city streets, incidents have shown a tendancy to spread out like wild fire.

If a theater were programmed to show more adult-oriented stuff as opposed to male youth oriented action flicks and the like, maybe it could work.

But I'm pretty sure the last thing PREIT wants is for its shiny new center to get a reputation as a teen magnet. That's good for teen-oriented businesses, but bad for every other kind of business, which is where PREIT is looking to make money. They're done with kids at this point otherwise they'd just have left the place as the Gallery.

[McBane]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

It seems to be a failed idea that it would become the metro's go to mall because of the regional rail stop. Philly doesn't need a major mall on market street, chestnut and walnut are examples of how philly would rather do shopping.

Talk of this being the "metro's go to mall" is just marketing hype - nobody actually believes that to be a remotely factual statement. But that doesn't mean it can't be a viable shopping mall. Do you really think that blowing up the entire gallery and replicating Chestnut/Walnut is actually feasible?

[MikeNigh]

Originally Posted by McBane

Talk of this being the "metro's go to mall" is just marketing hype - nobody actually believes that to be a remotely factual statement. But that doesn't mean it can't be a viable shopping mall. Do you really think that blowing up the entire gallery and replicating Chestnut/Walnut is actually feasible?

I think a mall catering to city residents should be off to the side like off a broad st stop etc. The regional rail stops seem to cater best to business towers.

I think they should build another all train regional stop at 9th / girard and have that as a kind of second business district.

[lsksl]

It's not as if every street in major cities has only official luxury stores. Obviously Market East isn't meant to be a luxury shopping street. Walnut is a lot more likely to develop as one since it already has a few.
Destroying the mall or not making use of its space would be a complete waste of money. Boston has two huge malls in its shopping district (Copley Place and Prudential or something). And NYC has Columbus Circle (which I would compare more to the little mall at Liberty Place.) So having a big mall doesn't destroy Philly's chances of becoming more urban and touristic or whatever.
The only thing I really don't like about the project is the name. Fashion Outlets of Philadelphia just doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound iconic or inviting. It does sound very suburban.

[Philly-Drew]

Thoughts on the hotel building frenzie in Philadelphia:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150621_Welcome_to_Philadelphia.html

[Larry King]

Originally Posted by lsksl

It's not as if every street in major cities has only official luxury stores. Obviously Market East isn't meant to be a luxury shopping street. Walnut is a lot more likely to develop as one since it already has a few.
Destroying the mall or not making use of its space would be a complete waste of money. Boston has two huge malls in its shopping district (Copley Place and Prudential or something). And NYC has Columbus Circle (which I would compare more to the little mall at Liberty Place.) So having a big mall doesn't destroy Philly's chances of becoming more urban and touristic or whatever.
The only thing I really don't like about the project is the name. Fashion Outlets of Philadelphia just doesn't sound right. It doesn't sound iconic or inviting. It does sound very suburban.

The gallery is a very cool name that shouldn't go anywhere

[Williard Mouse]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

1487'll love this . . . but opening a downtown multiplex is probably way too risky for most developers' tastes given the possibility of renewed youth group misbehavior that checkered Center City's mainstream movie showing history in the 80s and 90s.

You don't like to hear this, but any amemity that attracts large groups of potentially unruly youngsters, particularly at night, poses a lot of downside and very little upside for developers in urban settings. Traditional multiplex theaters are not massive profit-makers to begin with, will do little to increase the value of adjacent assets, and may even lower them if the theaters become teen magnets or the site of unfortunate youth incidents. This is no big deal when the theater is surrounded by a sea of parking and off ramps with minimal opportunity to spread beyond the parking lot, but in city streets, incidents have shown a tendancy to spread out like wild fire.

If a theater were programmed to show more adult-oriented stuff as opposed to male youth oriented action flicks and the like, maybe it could work.

But I'm pretty sure the last thing PREIT wants is for its shiny new center to get a reputation as a teen magnet. That's good for teen-oriented businesses, but bad for every other kind of business, which is where PREIT is looking to make money. They're done with kids at this point otherwise they'd just have left the place as the Gallery.

I agree 100%. I remember the days of Kung Fu films and marauding wolf packs terrorizing Center City. While we're at it, let's get rid of some of the Charter Schools in the business/tourism center and move them back into residential areas. Charter schools are the new incubators for wilding and knockout games.

[MikeNigh]

Originally Posted by Philly-Drew

Thoughts on the hotel building frenzie in Philadelphia:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20150621_Welcome_to_Philadelphia.html

"Boosters say the..."

I guess philly.com clearly doesn't see themselves as a booster of philly eh? No surprise there. Who owns philly.com that they would have such a solid negative agenda towards philly non stop?

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

"Boosters say the..."

I guess philly.com clearly doesn't see themselves as a booster of philly eh? No surprise there. Who owns philly.com that they would have such a solid negative agenda towards philly non stop?

Wha? It's a really positive article. What's negative about that?

[ScreamShatter]

Love the idea about a theatre in the gallery. I also think it would be helpful to build some highrises on top that include a lot of apartments/condos targeting lower middle to upper middle class people (the direct consumers that many of the potential gallery stores will be trying to target). I can see a lot of younger working professionals being attracted by views, shopping, the terminal, etc.

[MikeNigh]

Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis

Wha? It's a really positive article. What's negative about that?

Imo the article talks highly of philly from a thinking lowly of it position.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by MikeNigh

Imo the article talks highly of philly from a thinking lowly of it position.

Ah ok, ya maybe. Also, they didn't mention SLS.

[Flyers2001]

Saw a sneak peek of the new Hospital for the University of Penn. It looks to be 2 levels seperated by an atrium/main elevators. Right around 20 floors, with green roofs taking up the enitre footprint of Penn Tower and its garage.

There was a previous model that had more of a true two tower approach, rectagular in shape, one around 16 floors the other 20-22, but the colored sketches I saw were more of one tower with different levels. It also looks as there will be 2-4 levels below grade for parking, which again seem to stretch the majority of the footprint.

[BenKatzPhillytoParis]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

Saw a sneak peek of the new Hospital for the University of Penn. It looks to be 2 levels seperated by an atrium/main elevators. Right around 20 floors, with green roofs taking up the enitre footprint of Penn Tower and its garage.

There was a previous model that had more of a true two tower approach, rectagular in shape, one around 16 floors the other 20-22, but the colored sketches I saw were more of one tower with different levels. It also looks as there will be 2-4 levels below grade for parking, which again seem to stretch the majority of the footprint.

Thanks Flyers, interesting. Could you describe the architecture a little more, or was it really only a massing?

[Flyers2001]

Originally Posted by BenKatzPhillytoParis

Thanks Flyers, interesting. Could you describe the architecture a little more, or was it really only a massing?

I'll have some photos posted shortly of the renderings and modeling.

[Philly Fan]

Originally Posted by Flyers2001

I'll have some photos posted shortly of the renderings and modeling.

Looking forward to that.