YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Those may only benefit their bottom line. Price wise they are nothing but low-cost carrier. Even the "ultra low-cost carriers" in North America seem ridiculously expensive to us Europeans.

I'll leave it to others far more knowledgeable than I to delve into the explanations for why airfares are so much lower in Europe than in North America, but I will throw out the obligatory nod towards the differences in geographic area and population density. As a bonus, the Great Lakes compared to Western Europe, at the same scale.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I will throw out the obligatory nod towards the differences in geographic area and population density. As a bonus, the Great Lakes compared to Western Europe, at the same scale.

That's just what North American airlines want you to believe.

Ryanair is based out of tiny Ireland (Dublin is their biggest base after Stansted) and yet they manage to transport cattle across Europe for tenth of the price it costs to fly coast-to-coast in North America. Same thing with many low-cost airlines operating out of Spain and flying people from Nordic Countries to Canary Islands (it's a 6-hours flight) cheaply. I refuse believe that distances in here make for the 10x prices.

I hate it that my friends from Finland will have it cheaper to travel to Vancouver than it costs me to fly there and back. They will also have it cheaper to fly to New York than for me from Vancouver. I also find it ridiculous that the cheapest flights from Vancouver to nearest popular destinations like Las Vegas or Los Angeles never go under $200. In Europe you can rather easily find tickets that are below $50 and take you just as far.

The prices in here are just out of portion. One would think that transportation would be cheap in a oil-producing country like Canada, but it is anything but! I blame the government and the anti-competitive system both Canada and US have. We label ourselves as the forespeakers of free markets and trade, but in reality we are the worst protectionists! Grrrr.

[CareerShow]

Travel in Europe is cheaper because of the smaller distances needed to travel from point A to point B. Also there are more alternatives, such as train, car, bus etc. and more airlines crammed into a smaller space.

[MalcolmTucker]

And a different attitude about the value of airports to society as a whole.

[trofirhen]

This link might be interesting to some ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/college-tourist/lowcost-airlines-revoluti_b_7600480.html

[Delirium]

vancitybuzz posted a bunch of construction photos of the new outlet mall at yvr. gotta say, it looks pretty good.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/06/vancouver-airport-outlet-mall-photos/

[DKaz]

I was just on site last Monday and it looked nothing like that. Of course they're all in a rush to get the mall open by July 9 but the rate of construction is just phenomenal.

[sacrifice333]

Looks like it's coming together quite nicely. But the lack of decent awnings or rain cover is going to make this place epic come Vancouver's typical fall & winter weather!

[casper]

Originally Posted by Delirium

vancitybuzz posted a bunch of construction photos of the new outlet mall at yvr. gotta say, it looks pretty good.

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2015/06/vancouver-airport-outlet-mall-photos/

You kind of get a "Disneyland" feel looking at those photos. However maybe it does not matter, it still looks like it will be a nice experience shopping there if it is not real.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by casper

You kind of get a "Disneyland" feel looking at those photos. However maybe it does not matter, it still looks like it will be a nice experience shopping there if it is not real.

Went by it on the Canada Line a couple of weeks ago -- reminds me a lot of the outlet malls in Europe such as Bicester Village (UK) and Ingolstadt near Munich. Both of these have the same faux-Disney feel but if they're anything to go by, the YVR mall should do very well -- particularly with Vancouver's large Asian population. I've actually been to the McArthurGlen outlet mall in Salzburg, which was very nice (if small).

My last trip to Bicester a couple of years ago, Asians (particularly Mainland Chinese) made up probably around 30-40% of customers.

[Hot Rod]

Turbulence in SEA for DL:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/brea...cels-seattle-tokyo-haneda-from-oct-2015/

they can't seem to make business routes effective; first the very short lived SEA-KIX and now SEA-HND are history.

[dubsH]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Turbulence in SEA for DL:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/brea...cels-seattle-tokyo-haneda-from-oct-2015/

they can't seem to make business routes effective; first the very short lived SEA-KIX and now SEA-HND are history.

It's actually because of a DoT ruling where DL must operate the route daily in order to keep the USA-HND slot and they didn't/couldn't - hence the cancellation. They were operating it perhaps a dozen times during the last winter session, which led to other airlines complaining.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

Turbulence in SEA for DL:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/brea...cels-seattle-tokyo-haneda-from-oct-2015/

they can't seem to make business routes effective; first the very short lived SEA-KIX and now SEA-HND are history.

Originally Posted by dubsH

It's actually because of a DoT ruling where DL must operate the route daily in order to keep the USA-HND slot and they didn't/couldn't - hence the cancellation. They were operating it perhaps a dozen times during the last winter session, which led to other airlines complaining.

Is Seattle's loss Vancouver's gain? One would assume so.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by dubsH

It's actually because of a DoT ruling where DL must operate the route daily in order to keep the USA-HND slot and they didn't/couldn't - hence the cancellation. They were operating it perhaps a dozen times during the last winter session, which led to other airlines complaining.

Its not just a daily requirement, its a daily year round with no provision for seasonal withdrawal. The traffic profile on this route (and all other routes in/out of Japan) is highly seasonal. Plus the slot into and out of HND are terrible. Only HA is making money out of HND, and then only because the Japanese love their annual Hawaii vacation just as much as Canadian's love LAS vacations.

Finally keep in mind this HND slot was originally AA on the JFK-HND flight. AA couldn't make a go of it and DL picked up the slot for SEA-HND to supplement LAX-HND. The slot will return to AA (although now the post merger AA) for LAX-HND.

This slot pair has gone through more changes than Michael Sam has played football teams. Both situations have seen numerous disappointments.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is Seattle's loss Vancouver's gain? One would assume so.

DL will continue to operate SEA-NRT flights, so i expect pax will continue to utilized DL services to TYO rather than switch to YVR.

I would not call this a gain for YVR, more like a great defensive move (blocked shot in hockey erms) as YVR-HND is at daytime which makes it commercially viable. Also helps that there are separate airlines on YVR-HND and YVR-NRT.

[Gordon]

Another thing that helps the YVR HND route work is that Haneda is ANA's Hub with multiple connecting flights. I suspect that Delta soes have a hub there.

[trofirhen]

I read that AA is going to take over the SEA - HND route.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but between YVR and SEA, YVR seems to have a much more solid Asia footprint (as has been mentioned),
and that seems to include Japan.

[YVR Bruce]

April Sea-Tac Passenger traffic increased 13% from last year.

Per:
https://www.portseattle.org/About/Publications/Statistics/Airport-Statistics/Pages/default.aspx

Click on Current and Historic Traffic and Operations Statistics and download the Excel spreadsheet for April 2015.

From April ’14 to April ’15:

April / 2015 April / 2014 Amt Change %Change
PASSENGERS
Domestic Passengers – IN 1,452,243 / 1,295,271 / 156,972 / 12.12%
Domestic Passengers – OUT 1,442,364 / 1,269,692 / 172,672 /13.60%
Subtotal – Domestic Passengers 2,894,607 / 2,564,963 / 329,644 / 12.85%

International Passengers – IN 173,782 / 148,385 / 25,397 /17.12%
International Passengers – OUT 159,684 / 139,425 / 20,259 / 14.53%
Subtotal – International Passengers 333,466 / 287,810 / 45,656 / 15.86%

Total Passengers – IN 1,626,025 1,443,656 182,369 12.63%
Total Passengers – OUT 1,602,048 1,409,117 192,931 13.69%
PASSENGER GRAND TOTAL 3,228,073 2,852,773 375,300 13.16%

Note SEA's international is only 10% of their total. Lots of room to grow.

[sacrifice333]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is Seattle's loss Vancouver's gain? One would assume so.

I wouldn't really think so too much... how many American's would look at routes going North through YVR. I would expect most would choose a route with a layover in Asia or one in either SFO or LAX before a YVR one. Just conjecture though.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

I wouldn't really think so too much... how many American's would look at routes going North through YVR. I would expect most would choose a route with a layover in Asia or one in either SFO or LAX before a YVR one. Just conjecture though.

Yes, I think you're right. However, I think this little glitch in Seattle might give YVR the upper hand regarding Asia, and the possibility of
developing into a transfer hub with less threat from SEA-TAC.