Calgary Public Transit II

[joe498]

Shane Keating Fast Track Green Line LRT proposal being discussed this morning.

Scott Dippel @CBCScott twitter summary:

-Carra says he tells people if the next million Calgarians drive as much as the current million, "we're doomed." #yyccc
-Morgan says potential location for LRV storage facility is in SE (ogden yard or further south at 194th Av). #yyccc
-Chabot says boosting service on BRTs (ie another bridge over Deerfoot for 17Av) should be done first before looking at LRT on Green Line.
-Nenshi says he fully expects even with busway, land should be designated TOD (transit oriented dev) around future stations. #yyccc #cbc
-Nenshi feels passenger numbers there now for LRT on Centre St. SE? Not there yet. Morgan says busway wd send signal to developers. #yyccc
-Morgan suggests it's good to be ready in the event more money is available for future LRT line. #yyccc #cbc
-Keating says he wants #yyccc to be 'ahead of the game' for the Green Line when it comes to possible money coming from feds/prov. #cbc
-Morgan says it would be a 10 yr buildout to open entire Green Line as LRT. #yyccc #cbc
-Transit GM Doug Morgan says LRT on Green Line was envisioned in 2nd decade of the 3 decade long Routeahead plan. #yyccc #cbc
-Farrell is reminding #yyccc next LRT will use low-floor LRVs. She's encouraging council members to see similar systems elsewhere. #cbc
-Farrell says of feds on possible LRT money: I don't trust them until we cash the cheque... no, until the money's in the bank. #yyccc #cbc
-Farrell worries about leaping to LRT without having the needed density/population. #yyccc #cbc
-Keating tells #yyccc we need to know the 'what if's' before moving forward on LRT. Farrell says a cost-benefit analysis is needed. #cbc
-Keating says again, it's come down to which end gets LRT first rather than committing to do the Green Line as LRT. Full stop. #yyccc
-Keating points out that doing all 40 kms of LRT at once isn't going to happen. it would be staged. #yyccc

- Council votes 11-3 to study how to fast-track SE/Centre Street LRT if money rolls in. No: Magliocca, Chabot, Jones.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by joe498

- Council votes 11-3 to study how to fast-track SE/Centre Street LRT if money rolls in. No: Magliocca, Chabot, Jones.

I don't get it? Council wants to have a plan in case free money arrives, and these guys don't?

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by joe498

Shane Keating Fast Track Green Line LRT proposal being discussed this morning.

Scott Dippel @CBCScott twitter summary:

-Carra says he tells people if the next million Calgarians drive as much as the current million, "we're doomed." #yyccc
-Morgan says potential location for LRV storage facility is in SE (ogden yard or further south at 194th Av). #yyccc
-Chabot says boosting service on BRTs (ie another bridge over Deerfoot for 17Av) should be done first before looking at LRT on Green Line.
-Nenshi says he fully expects even with busway, land should be designated TOD (transit oriented dev) around future stations. #yyccc #cbc
-Nenshi feels passenger numbers there now for LRT on Centre St. SE? Not there yet. Morgan says busway wd send signal to developers. #yyccc
-Morgan suggests it's good to be ready in the event more money is available for future LRT line. #yyccc #cbc
-Keating says he wants #yyccc to be 'ahead of the game' for the Green Line when it comes to possible money coming from feds/prov. #cbc
-Morgan says it would be a 10 yr buildout to open entire Green Line as LRT. #yyccc #cbc
-Transit GM Doug Morgan says LRT on Green Line was envisioned in 2nd decade of the 3 decade long Routeahead plan. #yyccc #cbc
-Farrell is reminding #yyccc next LRT will use low-floor LRVs. She's encouraging council members to see similar systems elsewhere. #cbc
-Farrell says of feds on possible LRT money: I don't trust them until we cash the cheque... no, until the money's in the bank. #yyccc #cbc
-Farrell worries about leaping to LRT without having the needed density/population. #yyccc #cbc
-Keating tells #yyccc we need to know the 'what if's' before moving forward on LRT. Farrell says a cost-benefit analysis is needed. #cbc
-Keating says again, it's come down to which end gets LRT first rather than committing to do the Green Line as LRT. Full stop. #yyccc
-Keating points out that doing all 40 kms of LRT at once isn't going to happen. it would be staged. #yyccc

- Council votes 11-3 to study how to fast-track SE/Centre Street LRT if money rolls in. No: Magliocca, Chabot, Jones.

So it seems that this might mean that the LRT upgrade jumps up in priority over ruling the RouteAhead plan. Oh the wondrous wastes of money we call capital plans.

[joe498]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I don't get it? Council wants to have a plan in case free money arrives, and these guys don't?

They had the symbolic Routeahead plan which had the Greenline LRT set to start construction in 2029.

In other words, they didn't really have a plan.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by joe498

They had the symbolic Routeahead plan which had the Greenline LRT set to start construction in 2029.

In other words, they didn't really have a plan.

Haha. With so much funding coming from other (often fickle) levels of government, it's pretty hard to have a concrete plan for capital expenditures.

I guess it's nice to have an outline and set priorities, at least.

[CalgaryLankan]

A good change coming to route 301 and hopefully it will improve service.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/news/route301

But why it is routing via 9th Ave is hard to understand. A tweet from CT says its easier to turn articulate bus to 9th, but these buses take similar turns in other locations.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by CalgaryLankan

A good change coming to route 301 and hopefully it will improve service.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/news/route301

But why it is routing via 9th Ave is hard to understand. A tweet from CT says its easier to turn articulate bus to 9th, but these buses take similar turns in other locations.

Odd, the articulated buses actually have a smaller turning radius than a standard 40' bus. Was told this by a former CT mechanic.

I would have had it make a right onto 6th St and right again onto 5th Ave.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

Odd, the articulated buses actually have a smaller turning radius than a standard 40' bus. Was told this by a former CT mechanic.

I would have had it make a right onto 6th St and right again onto 5th Ave.

They have a smaller turning radius (locking angle of 27.3 degrees vs 36.7 degrees for a standard bus), but their larger swept path with the trailing piece can mean issues depending on how the driver takes the corner.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

They have a smaller turning radius (locking angle of 27.3 degrees vs 36.7 degrees for a standard bus), but their larger swept path with the trailing piece can mean issues depending on how the driver takes the corner.

True and the corner of 6th & 6th is tight due to the curb bulb on the west side.

Not sure I totally agree with the final routing, however I'm glad they are identifying bus bunching and attempting to reduce it.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by CalgaryLankan

A good change coming to route 301 and hopefully it will improve service.

http://www.calgarytransit.com/news/route301

But why it is routing via 9th Ave is hard to understand. A tweet from CT says its easier to turn articulate bus to 9th, but these buses take similar turns in other locations.

I would like type of exercise on all routes, particularly in the city centre. So many routes do arbitrary turns, additional stops than they need to. Much of this is the fault of having to switch to the appropriate 1-way avenues, but many seem pointless as if they are trying to waste time turning, getting caught in traffic etc.

Route 305 (Bowness to Forest Lawn BRT) heading Eastbound into the city centre is a good example:

• Enter downtown from 14th Street to Eastbound 9th Ave.
• Turn north on 11th Ave (no light priority over on 7th / 6th Ave, long queue and waits)
• Turn right on 5th Ave Eastbound (cross NW LRT that has priority)
• Turn right onto 7th Street Southbound
• Turn Left on 7th Avenue Eastbound (congestion with other bus routes, CTrains)
• Turn Right on 1st Street SE Southbound (Macleod Trail congestion)
• Turn Left on 9th Avenue Eastbound (hard 4-lane merge in 1-block)
• Exit downtown on 9th Avenue to Inglewood

A few options would be better for speed immediately:

• Proceed Eastbound on 9th to 6th Street before turning Northbound and connecting to 7th Avenue Eastbound
• Proceed all the way down 9th Avenue to Inglewood

Can't wait for southbound transit only lane on 4th Street SW, that kind of idea should be the norm to solve so many issues with the bus routes downtown.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by MasterG

I would like type of exercise on all routes, particularly in the city centre. So many routes do arbitrary turns, additional stops than they need to. Much of this is the fault of having to switch to the appropriate 1-way avenues, but many seem pointless as if they are trying to waste time turning, getting caught in traffic etc.

Route 305 (Bowness to Forest Lawn BRT) heading Eastbound into the city centre is a good example:

• Enter downtown from 14th Street to Eastbound 9th Ave.
• Turn north on 11th Ave (no light priority over on 7th / 6th Ave, long queue and waits)
• Turn right on 5th Ave Eastbound (cross NW LRT that has priority)
• Turn right onto 7th Street Southbound
• Turn Left on 7th Avenue Eastbound (congestion with other bus routes, CTrains)
• Turn Right on 1st Street SE Southbound (Macleod Trail congestion)
• Turn Left on 9th Avenue Eastbound (hard 4-lane merge in 1-block)
• Exit downtown on 9th Avenue to Inglewood

A few options would be better for speed immediately:

• Proceed Eastbound on 9th to 6th Street before turning Northbound and connecting to 7th Avenue Eastbound
• Proceed all the way down 9th Avenue to Inglewood

Can't wait for southbound transit only lane on 4th Street SW, that kind of idea should be the norm to solve so many issues with the bus routes downtown.

IMO all one ways should have the right lane dedicated to transit, key intersections would get an advanced signal for the buses to allow them to make lefts.

It seems a lot of route decisions are driven by some need to ensure that bus stops are within a certain distance of another route.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by Full Mountain

IMO all one ways should have the right lane dedicated to transit, key intersections would get an advanced signal for the buses to allow them to make lefts.

This completely. Even just doing the 4th and 5th couplet this way would yield enormous speed gains. Would probably improve more transit users lives more significantly than adding a whole other leg to the LRT. For a pittance compared to many other improvement ideas that have been floated.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by MasterG

This completely. Even just doing the 4th and 5th couplet this way would yield enormous speed gains. Would probably improve more transit users lives more significantly than adding a whole other leg to the LRT. For a pittance compared to many other improvement ideas that have been floated.

There are few buses that use 4th ave, maybe you are talking about 4th street???

I would like to see a cycle track installed on the north side of 5th ave that goes to Edmonton Trail. And bus lanes on the south/north side of 5th/6th ave respectively.

Currently 5th ave has 5 lanes and is grossly oversized for 95% of the time.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

There are few buses that use 4th ave, maybe you are talking about 4th street???

I would like to see a cycle track installed on the north side of 5th ave that goes to Edmonton Trail. And bus lanes on the south/north side of 5th/6th ave respectively.

Currently 5th ave has 5 lanes and is grossly oversized for 95% of the time.

Almost all of the one way roads downtown are grossly oversized expect for 1/2hr a day.

[simster3]

How can the Federal goverment pledge money to a project in Toronto that hasn't even been studied by the city? The SmartTrack plan only exists as an election pledge. I understand they are currently studying the feasibility of it. Are there not other projects in country that can use the boost that are a lot closer to being ready for construction? I guess, as I read in one article, it is easier to spend a different parliment's money then to spend your own.

[MalcolmTucker]

The money is way out too. Since the province and city are likely to finance whatever emerges from the study over 30 years, as some degree of P3, the federal money likely to as well.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by simster3

How can the Federal goverment pledge money to a project in Toronto that hasn't even been studied by the city? The SmartTrack plan only exists as an election pledge. I understand they are currently studying the feasibility of it. Are there not other projects in country that can use the boost that are a lot closer to being ready for construction? I guess, as I read in one article, it is easier to spend a different parliment's money then to spend your own.

I'm sure if you looked at where it was going, and where close election riding's are going to be, you may find a distinct co relation.

Alberta defaults to Conservatives, so there is no need to buy votes here.

[simster3]

I definitely understand it is blatant vote buying, but I really think it is bullshit and that there should be somewhat of a more transparent way of doling out the money, and not so opportunistic.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by simster3

I definitely understand it is blatant vote buying, but I really think it is bullshit and that there should be somewhat of a more transparent way of doling out the money, and not so opportunistic.

Well, what way is more fair? People seem to not like the recent PC Alberta way of block grants with no strings either.

[thager]

does anyone have any photos of the expansion at Haysboro storage ?