DENVER | Main Development Thread #6 - Page 222

Cirrus · #**4421** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 4:27 AM**

Charlotte is such a funny city. It's like sometime around 1990 a bunch of NationsBank and First Union execs realized "hey, Charlotte is kind of a big city, we should have the stuff that big cities have!" So they started building ornate skyscrapers and wide sidewalks and stone fountains and sleek light rail. And it's all very beautiful and all looks exactly like what a city designed by 1990s bank executives would look like: More dressed up office park than naturally evolved urban place.

Don't get me wrong. It's nice. Given where they started, it's really nice. I'm not knocking it at all. Certainly it's the most big-city like place in the Carolinas (its only serious competition being the twisty streets of Charleston). But forget about Boston and San Francisco; Charlotte is no Denver. Charlotte is a richer Albuquerque.

COtoOC · #**4422** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 3:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CherryCreek

I read an article a few months ago about how many publications are now removing their internet comment sections. There was a fair amount of both research and anecdotal evidence that such sections were dominated by "trolls", whose only purpose was to post incendiary comments that quickly lose track of the matter covered by the article in question and grossly distort the public discourse of the issue. In other words, they not only did not add value to the discussion they undermined it entirely.

From what I've seen of most comment sections, that is spot on.

P.S. Someone even wrote a book about it !

http://billions-and-billions.com/2014/02/13/my-book-officially-forthcoming-with-mit-press/

Probably right! Even on the Denver Post, it tends to be the same predictable loud mouths making mostly useless, flaming posts. Yahoo comments are the worst...

DenverPoke · #**4423** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 5:08 PM**

According to BusinessDen, Elitch sold for $140M, or about $2.3M per acre.

PLANSIT · #**4424** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 5:09 PM**

Updated list:

26 projects UC by end of June
25 projects proposed
-----------------------------------
51 projects UC or proposed in Denver proper over 100'

Thanks denconyny and everyone else for the edits/additions.

TakeFive · #**4425** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 5:32 PM**

^ Really nice list. I can't even imagine the effort. My eyes crossed just looking at it.

Only kink I found is that Hilton Garden Inn (DUS) is listed twice; same # of stories but with different heights.

corey · #**4426** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 5:45 PM**

I have been to Charlotte several times and I agree there must not have been anything of note prior to about 1990. Even today the one big attraction is the newish Nascar Hall of Fame. I don't know if they have more lines in the works, but their one light rail line doesn't go very far. The Bank of America building is nice. I think it was designed by Cesar Pelli. The one thing I like, which I think is actually a more successful design than LA Live, is how their Basketball Arena turned out. It is right in the middle of downtown, adjacent to the light rail. The entrances are right of downtown streets. It is not surrounded by parking lots like the Pepsi Center and Dallas's beautiful arena. I think Charlotte would be boring but it does have nice lakes around it and you can take day trips to Asheville and the Great Smoky Mountains, to Greensboro SC, the Carolina coast, etc. I

corey · #**4427** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 5:48 PM**

Plansit, good job on the construction project list! Now get back to work! ;-)

corey · #**4428** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 5:51 PM**

I don't see Tabor II on the list, unless you've given up hope on that one.

Sam Hill · #**4429** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 7:11 PM**

Is Tabor II even still a thing? People keep bringing it up but I'm not aware of any proposal. The last proposal I saw was from like 10 years ago. Am I wrong?

bunt_q · #**4430** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 7:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by corey

I don't see Tabor II on the list, unless you've given up hope on that one.

It's about as real as Block 162 I say. I'll be worm food before that block is anything but a parking lot.

Cirrus · #**4431** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 7:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by corey

I don't know if they have more lines in the works, but their one light rail line doesn't go very far.

There are several more lines in the works, including an extension of the existing LRT and a streetcar that are currently under construction.

Dogpatch · #**4432** Posted **Jun 11, 2015, 9:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bunt_q

It's about as real as Block 162 I say. I'll be worm food before that block is anything but a parking lot.

Couldn't agree more. I remember there was so much excitement when Evan Makovsky purchased that block. Then he fixed up the Fontius building (and did a great job on it!) just before the DNC in 2008.

I was very hopeful and optimistic that he would quickly make something amazing happen on block 162. And that was certainly the sentiment on this board. And 7 years later, nothing...it's very disappointing. Sorry for the rant, but sheesh...it's such a prime location and it's 70% parking lot.

CherryCreek · #**4433** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 12:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DenverPoke

According to BusinessDen, Elitch sold for $140M, or about $2.3M per acre.

I think that price says everything about the future of the Elitches site. Does the amusement park alone support that kind of number?

DownhomeDenver · #**4434** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 1:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dogpatch

Couldn't agree more. I remember there was so much excitement when Evan Makovsky purchased that block. Then he fixed up the Fontius building (and did a great job on it!) just before the DNC in 2008.

I was very hopeful and optimistic that he would quickly make something amazing happen on block 162. And that was certainly the sentiment on this board. And 7 years later, nothing...it's very disappointing. Sorry for the rant, but sheesh...it's such a prime location and it's 70% parking lot.

Yup Fontius, great! But in the end Evan is just a land banker. Block 162 will remain a parking lot for decades to come.

The Dirt · #**4435** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 1:57 PM**

How do you figure that when he sank so much time and money into that hotel/office/observation tower/urban Target proposal? We all complain about land underutilization but ambitious projects take time. Look at the Hines office tower, it took them 15 years to pull the trigger on a speculative project.

DenverInfill · #**4436** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 2:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Yup Fontius, great! But in the end Evan is just a land banker. Block 162 will remain a parking lot for decades to come.

You shouldn't say things you don't know to be true. Mr. Makovsky has been working very hard on Block 162. I know him personally.

Octavian · #**4437** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 2:47 PM**

Tons of new construction photos available from 5/29:

http://images.flydenver.com/Hotel--Transit-Center/2015/5-29-2015/

RyanD · #**4438** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 2:49 PM**

The main Skyhouse structure is going to be relatively small... Two towers with podiums would actually work here versus the detached garage!

The Dirt · #**4439** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 4:27 PM**

Yeah, I hope they start to diversify their design a bit more. So far it's been the same design with only slightly tweaked roofs. I've seen a rendering of a short version of Skyhouse built atop the parking structure but I've yet to have seen it actually built. The rendering looks great but judging by the other construction cams, the finished product looks cheap and dated. It's basically a glassier version of anything built in Capitol Hill in the 70s.

bunt_q · #**4440** Posted **Jun 12, 2015, 5:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Dirt

How do you figure that when he sank so much time and money into that hotel/office/observation tower/urban Target proposal? We all complain about land underutilization but ambitious projects take time. Look at the Hines office tower, it took them 15 years to pull the trigger on a speculative project.

I am skeptical of any proposal that includes a money-sucking observation tower. Give me a break. This isn't Dubai. When the observation tower is no longer part of the proposal, the thing gets value engineered into a semi-box - at least on the hotel side - and we see a 1,000 parking space garage added... basically, when Mr. Makovsky comes back down to earth... then I'll believe it's a real project.