Halifax Stadium Discussion

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Actually, yeah, admittedly, it's a little embarrassing that we don't have a stadium that matches anything like Moncton's. So, instead of women's World Cup soccer matches played here in a proper city, they're over there in bumpkin land of Moncton. What are players doing after the game? Heading to Champlain Place? Crystal Palace?

Bumpkin land???

Can't we keep the discourse in the Halifax section a little civil please. I saw another post in the downtown section recently casting aspersions on the craterous potholes in Saint John (which had nothing to do with the topic at hand of the excellent stock of old heritage buildings in the center of the port city).

If you feel that the only way to elevate Halifax is to insult the remainder of the region (or anyplace off the peninsula), then I think that's pretty sad.

BTW - Crystal Palace doesn't exist any more. It's being renovated into a Bass Pro Shop, but I guess that feeds into your characterization of Moncton as being the homeland of the rubes and bumpkins of the Maritimes doesn't it......

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Bumpkin land???

Can't we keep the discourse in the Halifax section a little civil please. I saw another post in the downtown section recently casting aspersions on the craterous potholes in Saint John (which had nothing to do with the topic at hand of the excellent stock of old heritage buildings in the center of the port city).

If you feel that the only way to elevate Halifax is to insult the remainder of the region (or anyplace off the peninsula), then I think that's pretty sad.

BTW - Crystal Palace doesn't exist any more. It's being renovated into a Bass Pro Shop, but I guess that feeds into your characterization of Moncton as being the homeland of the rubes and bumpkins of the Maritimes doesn't it......

Yeah, apologies. Was in a bad mood. No need for the Moncton insult, just more frustration with issues here in Halifax.

[MonctonRad]

Accepted.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Bumpkin land???

Can't we keep the discourse in the Halifax section a little civil please. I saw another post in the downtown section recently casting aspersions on the craterous potholes in Saint John (which had nothing to do with the topic at hand of the excellent stock of old heritage buildings in the center of the port city).

If you feel that the only way to elevate Halifax is to insult the remainder of the region (or anyplace off the peninsula), then I think that's pretty sad.

BTW - Crystal Palace doesn't exist any more. It's being renovated into a Bass Pro Shop, but I guess that feeds into your characterization of Moncton as being the homeland of the rubes and bumpkins of the Maritimes doesn't it......

I agree with you in that there is little to be gained in comparing maritime cities as they each have their own unique flavour. I actually enjoy visiting Moncton as it has a nice walkable downtown area with good eating -and drinking- choices. Champlain Place mall offers a nice shopping experience with different choices than available in Halifax. There is a box store area that isn't particularly unique but does offer experiences not available in Halifax - namely St. Hubert's (tons better than the ubiquitous Swiss Chalet) and Frank's music - one of the last remaining independent music stores where you can actually find a good selection of new CDs, for those of us who still buy music and prefer better sound quality than mp3s. Of course I would be remiss if I did not mention Vito's on Mountain Road and their Caesar Chicken...

Also, although I haven't gone there, I've noticed that the Moncton Casino has many entertainment opportunities not available in Halifax (I guess the bands don't want to come this far east?).

So, yes, Moncton has a lot to offer and is unique from Halifax in many ways - so let's not compare apples to oranges.

Regarding the SJ comments, I held back a little due to my self-imposed limitations on being involved in 'drama' here on this forum, but again, comparing Halifax to Saint John is ludicrous. Different geography, a different place altogether really. And Halifax doesn't have potholes? I beg to differ as I swerved around about 250 of them on my way to work this morning. Not to mention unpainted roadways - welcome to the game of "guess a lane"...

Saint John has one of the coolest layouts for a city that I've seen. There are so many buildings built directly on the rocky hills that it has to be seen in person to appreciate. As mentioned, the building stock in the downtown area puts Halifax to shame, regardless whether it is because of economic downturn or whatever, somebody has seen to it that they have been preserved and utilized. In Halifax (now I am making a comparison), they would be allowed to become run-down, so that tearing them down would be justified. Then it would remain an empty lot for 20 - 50 years.

Saint John is a neat city, as you can see many signs of a thriving town in its old architecture. It has been woefully neglected by the provincial government for some time, IMHO, but still seems to survive (mostly through Irving, but appears to be reinventing itself as a cruise ship destination). I haven't actually been there in a number of years, but at one point visited regularly.

So, yes, I see and understand your point clearly.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Yeah, apologies. Was in a bad mood. No need for the Moncton insult, just more frustration with issues here in Halifax.

Good form, CF!

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Good form, CF!

Thanks, Mark. It was a dumb comment; no problem admitting.

[counterfactual]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Accepted.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by counterfactual

Thanks, Mark. It was a dumb comment; no problem admitting.

Meh... you're not the first and you won't be the last... happens to us all now and again.

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Bumpkin land???

Can't we keep the discourse in the Halifax section a little civil please. I saw another post in the downtown section recently casting aspersions on the craterous potholes in Saint John (which had nothing to do with the topic at hand of the excellent stock of old heritage buildings in the center of the port city).

If you feel that the only way to elevate Halifax is to insult the remainder of the region (or anyplace off the peninsula), then I think that's pretty sad.

BTW - Crystal Palace doesn't exist any more. It's being renovated into a Bass Pro Shop, but I guess that feeds into your characterization of Moncton as being the homeland of the rubes and bumpkins of the Maritimes doesn't it......

No apology here, I just stated a fact about the roads in Saint John, not a put down, just the way it is. Doesn't lift up Halifax, Halifax stands on it's own and nobody needs to put down another place to lift up Halifax.

[swish]

yes i have visited all three Moncton SJ and Halifax and I visit all 3 fairly often sj and moncton several times per year and they are quite different from each other and as Maritimers we do need to stick together and protect the region from the many outside attacks. If you combined all 3 of those cities into one city it would be quite an attractive city for sure.

[c-way-dude]

The biggest argument that anti-stadium people have against a stadium is that it would not be used enough to justify the cost of it's construction.
Would a single-decked dome be an easier sell? A stadium like the Fargodome in Fargo, North Dakota has different set-ups to host a variety of events. The Fargodome can accommodate 19k for football (with talk of expansion to 25k) and can accommodate up to 26k in it's largest concert set-up. There is also an arena set-up.
A basic dome would obviously be more expensive, but it might be more logical than building a 15k arena that would be way too big for CHL hockey (hurting the atmosphere at Moosehead games) and/or a basic CFL-calibre stadium that could only host concerts when the weather is good.

[curnhalio]

I don't know if the small dome concept works for a CFL sized field with track and field lanes around the perimeter. Unless the far ends are built with a giant wall on either end and bowl seating along the sides. The end walls could house luxury suites well enough. That would be more aesthetically pleasing than just a blank wall. The dome would have to be sealed, people are up in arms enough about the cost, never mind adding $100 million+ for a retractable roof.

[hokus83]

What's the rush to build this highly useless thing from people, It's something the private sector will probably pitch in and fully fund thr cost to build in 20 or 30 years anyways with the population growth. Why the demand to build it now with tax money?.

[c-way-dude]

Originally Posted by curnhalio

I don't know if the small dome concept works for a CFL sized field with track and field lanes around the perimeter. Unless the far ends are built with a giant wall on either end and bowl seating along the sides. The end walls could house luxury suites well enough. That would be more aesthetically pleasing than just a blank wall. The dome would have to be sealed, people are up in arms enough about the cost, never mind adding $100 million+ for a retractable roof.

I wouldn't worry about a running track. I like the idea of walls housing luxury suites behind the endzones, or perhaps hotel rooms like the Roger's Centre in Toronto. I think the cheapest idea might be putting all of the sideline luxury suites on side of the field. Perhaps the seating sections from the twenty yardline to the back of the endzone at each end of the stadium could be made to be able to be swung out to be perpendicular to the sideline seating. If a stadium had 25k seats, that would make 12.5k seats facing a concert stage. Add floor seating and it should be a good concert setting.

[TheNovaScotian]

There are very few stadiums that get built without help from the 3 levels of government either in land / money / tax credits /

With a population of 390k in Halifax and around 2 million within a 6 hour radius, if built in a phased approach a stadium would be a valuable asset for large scale events that build civic pride ie. CFL/Grey Cup, Soccer, Baseball, concerts/festivals, university / junior sports. That's if built for multi-purpose instead of single use which would be a good idea, considering the popularity of Soccer and Baseball in the city with the numerous national championships.

To say that Halifax is too small for a facility in the 25k range expandable to 50k for larger events would be shortsighted. Start with two 12.5k grandstands with a cantilevered roof covering both, the end zones could be for temporary seating. Fenwick has a whole bunch of renderings from before, that represent the best option IMO. A dome would be beneficial if made part of the later phases by engineering in the ability to support the eventual load.

Large scale infrastructure projects are the most effect use of public dollars to create direct jobs, this is money that circulates the local economy instead of leaving it like tax credits usually do.

[c-way-dude]

re: Grey Cup
The new minimum capacity for hosting the Grey Cup would seem to be about 40k or a bit over. That is the capacity that recently built stadiums in Winnipeg, Ottawa and the stadium being built in Regina are designed to be expanded to. I doubt that Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton can be even expanded to 40k, given the fact that it can accommodate about 24k and the old Ivor Wynne site that it was built on is small.
A 40k stadium would also allow Halifax to be involved should Canada ever host the FIFA World Cup.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by c-way-dude

re: Grey Cup
The new minimum capacity for hosting the Grey Cup would seem to be about 40k or a bit over. That is the capacity that recently built stadiums in Winnipeg, Ottawa and the stadium being built in Regina are designed to be expanded to. I doubt that Tim Horton's Field in Hamilton can be even expanded to 40k, given the fact that it can accommodate about 24k and the old Ivor Wynne site that it was built on is small.
A 40k stadium would also allow Halifax to be involved should Canada ever host the FIFA World Cup.

I think it is possible for Tim Horton's Field to be expanded to 40,000. They not only rotated the field 90 degrees but also increased the footprint as can be seen by comparing the Bing Maps with the old stadium - https://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=43.252...2572_-79.830247_Tim%20Hortons%20Field___ and Google Maps showing the new stadium - https://www.google.com/maps/place/43%C2%...8m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0?hl=en

[c-way-dude]

It seems that it might no longer be necessary to have 40k seats to host a Grey Cup.
cbc.ca/news/canada/manitoba/winnipeg-grey-cup-seating-capacity-among-lowest-since-1970s-1.3199714

[curnhalio]

Sure, they'll let them go under 40k this year, but what will it mean for future Cups played there? Fortunately, for Halifax, this means that we don't have to build 40k PERMANENT seats, just that the ability to add them for certain events has to be there. We could probably still get away with 25k permanent seats.

[Ziobrop]

so while reading through Halifax Council Minutes from February 1968, Discussion of a location a stadium for the 1969 Canada Games.. some urgency, for the games, but also The CFL is Looking to Expand to Halifax....

Its all just a little bit of history repeating..