YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Why doesn't Delta fly Atlanta-Vancouver daily in the summer and at least a few times in the winter? Surely there is enough traffic. Also is United returning with the service to Washington Dulles?

Surely there is enough traffic? How can you be "sure?" - see my next point below. And yes YVR-IAD has started for the summer albeit only one weekly flight on Saturdays this summer.

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Given the size of their operation in Atlanta, it is a bit surprising that Delta can't support a year-round non-stop. But you can be sure they've looked at passenger patterns, crunched the numbers and decided that their metal would be more profitably deployed on other routes. Atlanta is a bit of a detour for flights to Europe or Asia -- or even the US Midwest or Northeast -- and they're not as strong as AA in Latin America. It probably makes the most sense to funnel passengers via their Seattle hub.

Just looking at Delta's YVR summer ops, for example, in just the last couple of years it has gone from serving four destinations (MSP, SLC, ATL and DTW) with six flights per day to seven destinations (MSP, SLC, ATL, DTW, JFK, LAX and SEA) with 12 flights per day. Of course, weekend ops get a further boost. And they have gone from two year-round destinations to four. All of these destinations are hubs on varying levels... Sure ATL is their largest base but it's also by far the furthest base from YVR. I'd say YVR is lucky to have even just the two flights per week to ATL in the summer.

Originally Posted by Alpine

Why does YVR rarely get 77W's, and never get 747-8i's or A380s?

AC3 (Narita), AC25 (Shanghai), AC29 (Beijing), AC63 (Seoul) all use 787-8 aircraft.

Air Canada's only intercontinental destinations from YVR that don't use 787's are AC854, AC7 and AC33. The first two flights serve London and Hong Kong, massive hubs for YVR; and the third originates from YYZ requiring a 77L.

Except for AC7, all of these flights have used either a 767-300ER, an A330-300 or an A340-300 at some time in the past.

LH493 uses Lufthansa's dinosaur 747-400s, previously A340-600s. We don't get those brand spanking new 747-8is.

JAL used to have 2x 747-400s (JL11, JL17), but after bankruptcy and the Great East Japan Earthquake, it's been 787s all the way down. (JAL, ANA and of course AC)

China Eastern uses A330s. China Southern uses 787s, previously 777-200s. KLM uses A330s, previously MD-11s.

However, BA uses 747-400s and Air China uses 777-300ERs. Cathay mixes it up with 747-400s and 777-300ERs. KLM is switching to 787-9s on KL682, but I would kill to see a 747-8i or an A380 in passenger service at YVR. Or an expansion in 77W flights. I remember AC003 used to be a 77W. Maybe CA992 on a 748-8i? Does YVR even have the passenger demand for such aircraft?

Pretty amazing that YVR has all of these services you have just listed with a vast array of different aircraft types. Not bad huh?

Don't forget AC also flies the 77W twice daily to YYZ. Plus pretty soon in August one daily 789 for at least a month anyway.

China Airlines is being tipped to be one of their first A350 routes too.

EVA Air continues to add frequencies to YVR. Wouldn't surprise me to see them go daily very soon. Their 744s are also being phased out so.... Yup more 77Ws on the way.

CX no longer flies 744s, they have been phased out of their fleet anyway. CX flies three daily 77Ws into YVR - 2 to HKG and 1 to JFK.

KL going to be daily 777-200 next summer. KLM has earmarked YVR as a daily 789 route but nothing official yet.

YVR is also very lucky to have JAL flying here still as well considering all the bases they have dropped worldwide.

AC to NRT downgauged due to NH launching YVR-HND.... soon to be a Dreamliner as well in a few more weeks.

So not too sure about your opening comment... YVR sees quite a few 77Ws (including even more in my next comment). As for your A380 and 748 question.... See my last comment at the bottom.

Originally Posted by CareerShow

Firstly AC switches to a 777W for the summer months on the YVR PEK route. YVR Sydney was a 777W last Winter. Cathay goes 2 Daily 777W to Hong Kong. Philippine airlines sends a 777W at least 4 times a week. BA may switch to a 777W with the retirements of there 747.

PR is actually 7 weekly 77Ws. The four that carry on to YYZ and the three YVR standalones. YVR sees the A340s on the 4 weekly MNL-YVR-JFK route as well.

Originally Posted by Klazu

Considering that BA has during summer two daily flights, would it possible for them to consider going in the future for a daily summer A380, rather than twice a day 777W? I think BA is our only hope for seeing a A380 ever and Lufthansa for 747-8 (nice video find, Leftcoaster!).

I would think they would go true double daily on 77Ws versus an A380.

I think that LH 748 was a one off!

My take on why YVR doesn't have any A380 or 748 flights.... Besides my earlier comment on them being too premium heavy...

There are currently 8 cities in North America that see A380 services. YYZ, SFO, LAX, DFW, IAH, ATL, MIA, IAD and JFK. And fewer see the 748. The smallest city on that list has a metro area of over six million people.

Need I say more?

[Denscity]

You killed it Johnny and YVR is awesome! How long till someone else complains about it's lack of flights and variety??

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Considering that BA has during summer two daily flights, would it possible for them to consider going in the future for a daily summer A380, rather than twice a day 777W? I think BA is our only hope for seeing a A380 ever and Lufthansa for 747-8 (nice video find, Leftcoaster!).

I think more frequency would be better for both BA and travellers, greater selection and flexibility.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Considering that BA has during summer two daily flights, would it possible for them to consider going in the future for a daily summer A380, rather than twice a day 777W? I think BA is our only hope for seeing a A380 ever and Lufthansa for 747-8 (nice video find, Leftcoaster!).

Actually, if passenger numbers from China continue to grow, I could see China Southern one day sending an A380 to YVR (ok, not in the short or medium term, but still one can hope...). Doesn't Air China have 748s on order as well?

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Hourglass

Actually, if passenger numbers from China continue to grow, I could see China Southern one day sending an A380 to YVR (ok, not in the short or medium term, but still one can hope...). Doesn't Air China have 748s on order as well?

Again, I think both airlines are better off sending higher frequencies rather then larger aircraft. Air China is already doing that this summer with up to two daily 777W in August. The larger aircrafts are more suited to airports with large passenger demands and minimal airport slots. As far as I know, YVR is not pressed for slots.

[teriyaki]

Agreed. And as a traveller, I very much prefer having more frequencies as opposed to less (albeit on "sexier" aircraft). Having that time flexibility means I can maximize my actual vacation time.

With 787-9's coming online soon, and the A350 also on the horizon. We still have our fair share of variety in the near future.

[trofirhen]

It is evident, from the information supplied by Johnny and others, that YVR, while not being a major world hub, is an important airport with many big jets of most types.
My thing is ROUTES. I'd love to see Brisbane, Melbourne, Lima and São Paulo added to the roster, including Istanbul Atatürk.

Yes,yes, yes; not enough demand, too small a market, bilaterals, the list goes on.

But if people can cry for bigger planes, I can cry for more routes. (some may remember how I used to rant about Paris ... and they finally got Air France to CDG. Voilà)

[deasine]

There's word an A380 will be making scheduled visits by British Airways coming next April. If any airline will fly an A380, I think BA is probably the most fitting as it already has 747s, occasionally at more than daily frequencies.

[Denscity]

Originally Posted by deasine

There's word an A380 will be making scheduled visits by British Airways coming next April. If any airline will fly an A380, I think BA is probably the most fitting as it already has 747s, occasionally at more than daily frequencies.

I beg your pardon??

[CareerShow]

Originally Posted by Denscity

I beg your pardon??

I would think Vancouver wouldn't warrant such a large aircraft, let alone at more then 7 weekly.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by deasine

There's word an A380 will be making scheduled visits by British Airways coming next April. If any airline will fly an A380, I think BA is probably the most fitting as it already has 747s, occasionally at more than daily frequencies.

BA has nine A380s in its fleet with three more on the way for a total of 12. BA's A380s have 14 F, 97 J, 55 W (World Traveller Plus) and 303 Y seats for a total of 469 seats.

Right now they fly them to JNB, SIN, HKG, SFO, LAX, IAD and as of Oct 2015 MIA. These destinations all have very strong premium demand. After MIA they will be receiving two more. Looking at their world route map if YVR was earmarked for one of the next two I'd be surprised.

Like most YVR-Europe routes YVR-LHR is very seasonal. The LHR-YVR runs daily in the winter and 12 weekly in the summer. The only time I could see an A380 on the route would be for the period say early June to mid September (during the 12 flights per week period). Any other time of the year would be a real struggle to fill the beast.

In any event if this did happen I would expect it to be during summer only and perhaps just a few flights per week replacing some of the additional frequencies of the second flight. Something like daily BA84 with four 380s and three 744s, and BA86 running on the days BA84 is a 744 so three days per week.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by deasine

There's word an A380 will be making scheduled visits by British Airways coming next April. If any airline will fly an A380, I think BA is probably the most fitting as it already has 747s, occasionally at more than daily frequencies.

Originally Posted by Denscity

I beg your pardon??

Regarding this, I once heard somewhere long ago and far away, that BA was considering doubly daily service here 5 x / wk.

Not only due to LHR being a major tourist and business destination, Vancouver still has a % of people of UK origin to add to the load factor.

This might or might explain the idea of the A380 being put on the YVR -LHR run. ()

[Johnny Aussie]

AC seems to be very happy with its recent international expansion. "... paying better than expected results." According to Ben Smith.

He is attributing a lot of that due to the 787. Since a lot of this is out of YVR I would expect they are more than pleased with their choice of putting the 787 on most YVR-Asia routes.

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress.c...ectly-designed-for-air-canada-executive/

[trofirhen]

I address this largely to Johnny, others too, of course:
What shape is JETSTAR in financially. Where are they headed in market terms?
I noticed they seem to have an eclectic destination roster, with Asian cities served then discontinued (notably MNL, KL, BEIJ), yet with Wuhan, China, coming up.
Would they possible be interested in grabbing a North American foothold, going MEL - YVR? They are based in Melbourne, if that has anything to do with it. Do they, or will they, have 789s?

[LeftCoaster]

^ If I recall correctly Jetstar is a low cost airline, which I think is a subsidiary of Qantas. It's primary focus is on SE Asia, so I'd be very surprised to see them send something to NA. Much more likely to be Qantas or AC service to Melbourne.

Originally Posted by CareerShow

The larger aircrafts are more suited to airports with large passenger demands and minimal airport slots. As far as I know, YVR is not pressed for slots.

That is a two way issue though, it doesn't have to be YVR that is slot constrained, just one of the airports.

If LHR for instance is slot constrained (which it badly is) it will have the same effect as YVR being slot constrained and necessitate upgauging of the size of plane.

Originally Posted by deasine

There's word an A380 will be making scheduled visits by British Airways coming next April. If any airline will fly an A380, I think BA is probably the most fitting as it already has 747s, occasionally at more than daily frequencies.

Hmm, interesting. I'll believe it when I see it, but given what I just said above it could have some logical basis.

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC seems to be very happy with its recent international expansion. "... paying better than expected results." According to Ben Smith.

He is attributing a lot of that due to the 787. Since a lot of this is out of YVR I would expect they are more than pleased with their choice of putting the 787 on most YVR-Asia routes.

https://canadianaviationnews.wordpress.c...ectly-designed-for-air-canada-executive/

Great news. I think it has been you that has been constantly saying that the 787 is the perfect aircraft for Vancouver's loads/destinations. Always nice to be right!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

^ If I recall correctly Jetstar is a low cost airline, which I think is a subsidiary of Qantas. It's primary focus is on SE Asia, so I'd be very surprised to see them send something to NA. Much more likely to be Qantas or AC service to Melbourne.

Does anyone believe MEL might be possible within 5 years? If not, in roughly how much time after that? Less than 10 years, I'd hope.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Does anyone believe MEL might be possible within 5 years? If not, in roughly how much time after that? Less than 10 years, I'd hope.

MEL or BNE is possible within the next 5 years.

AC is the best bet, especially if they go for more 788s. Winter seasonal services on 789 to both SYD 7x/wk and MEL 5x/wk would be attractive.

JQ is out (or at least poor fit) due to small seats and small pitch offered on Jetstar. JQ gets 335 people into their 787 where as AC gets 251. JQ crams everyone into the 788 but standard stage length is at least 750-1000 miles less than AC.

QF is rumored to be dangling a Dreamliner order in front of their pilots in order to sign a new contract. The Dreamliner would be perfect for QF. But much like the 77W; they appear to be watching other airlines eating their lunch.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Cage

MEL or BNE is possible within the next 5 years.

AC is the best bet, especially if they go for more 788s. Winter seasonal services on 789 to both SYD 7x/wk and MEL 5x/wk would be attractive.

JQ is out (or at least poor fit) due to small seats and small pitch offered on Jetstar. JQ gets 335 people into their 787 where as AC gets 251. JQ crams everyone into the 788 but standard stage length is at least 750-1000 miles less than AC.

QF is rumored to be dangling a Dreamliner order in front of their pilots in order to sign a new contract. The Dreamliner would be perfect for QF. But much like the 77W; they appear to be watching other airlines eating their lunch.

I believe that contract was signed, and a go-ahead on long haul routes made possible. At any rate, I hope Qantas either kicks back into year-round Vancouver from Sydney,
or (given the existing AC service there) then MEL. We gotta get MEL (I think).

Also, who is eating Qantas's lunch? EK and the M3? I've heard that they have swallowed up a lot of QF traffic, (and have large accessibility in Australia and NZ.)

[CareerShow]

I would like to see San Diego brought back. I could see AC Rouge starting that route in the next 2 years. Westjet has seemed to stop their expansion at YVR.

[Johnny Aussie]

Just saw this little post on Twitter!

@airlineroute: CAAC has posted Hainan Airlines' application for 5 weekly A330 Tianjin - Vancouver service, starting June 2016

Not official yet... but.... this is big... no.... this is huge!