NEW YORK | 200 Greenwich - 2 WTC | 1,226 FT | 55 FLOORS

[chris08876]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

The terrorist won. What a f'en shame!

We build $3 billion towers, they build houses made of clay. Yup they won.

[BoM Trespasser]

From diamonds to blocky billboards. It reminds me of the Summit Series 1972, Bobby Clarke went onto the ice and broke opponent Valery Kharmalov's leg. IOW, ya gotta do what ya gotta do.

(Canada did end up winning the series.)

[Enigmatism415]

Originally Posted by chris08876

We build $3 billion towers, they build houses made of clay. Yup they won.

They won this particular battle regardless of the recent news. Why do I think so? I feel like my own neighborhood is a police state. Wall Street, Park Row, and now the WTC. The Paranoia, hostility to visitors and residents alike, dismissal of traffic concerns, and the general 'no fun allowed' attitude has persisted to the point of tradition. 9/11 continues to hurt our community nearly 15 years after the fact, except this time it's our own people perpetuating it. We should have rebuilt the twins better than before, told the terrorists to go fuck themselves, and lived happily ever after in the greatest city on the east coast.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by chris08876

We build $3 billion towers, they build houses made of clay. Yup they won.

Do you really think you won with a building that is a basic series of rectangular boxes at a cost of $3 Billion? For christsakes the tallest building in the world only cost $1.5 Billion to build.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_buildings_in_the_world

[rlw777]

All of the rationales from the video and articles for this form are weak. I expected quite a bit more from BIG. When you design something at the end of the day you have ask whether or not your solutions to the design problems involved are successful.

Does anyone think this is a good solution to the design problems mentioned? Are they even actually problems?

Meld tribeca and FiDi
Poor solution to an imaginary problem. These boxes may be intended as a way to be contextual but it only serves to make it feel more out of place more alien. By attempting to meld tribeca and FiDi BIG has created the skyscraper equivalent of a futon it does two things poorly and nothing well.

Continue the spiral of the WTC
Any tower at this height in that location would continue the spiral formed by the peaks of the WTC. However from the renderings I would say this is a poor solution to the problem in that the setbacks on the east side distract from the spiral of the WTC peaks.

Relation to WTC1
Ok so it's designed to align with WTC1 at a specific angle. That's alright I guess but in the process you've made it look like the building could easily fall over. I don't know about you but that's not the message I would want to send in that particular location.

[BoM Trespasser]

Also Ingles Sail boat over there on the Hudson has obvious crappy qualities from the actual views FROM the building/from inside the balconies standpoint. I thought, would a genius design that? Really?

[JayProReturneth]

Brethren;
Long Time No Post

At the outset, I do wish for the love of Pete that this continuing reference to this or that sloping precariously at such-and-such an angle would cease being perceived as some kind of flashback to the original twin's collapse, especially since only one buckled at a hardly perceptible degree at that, while the other simply collapsed straight down. Never mind that; This dreaded "inverted cantilevering" IMO is just going to look more and more like Girasole's curve the farther you look away. I mean really. Is all of what I've suggested so far a case of structural unsoundness more than anything else?? For American City architecture buffs to scream for innovation on the one hand and then go ultraconservative Chicken Little on the other seems IMO a tad curious.
That said, other thoughts:

1. Indeed, while the overall concept of taking a simple hexagonal plot and milking it for its architectural worth was considered groundbreaking for maybe a decade ago, I rejoice with what I see Mr. Ingels has shown us today. Surely, most of you know that this is the one and same gentleman who has graced us with the West Side pyramid, The Calgary Telus tower and (IIRC) a stunning proposal for Seattle.
And surely, Mr. Ingals knew what he had to work with especially in regards to the sort of tenant Larry et al. are this close to establishing as the anchor. This is why, at closer look, all of this tower's exterior design qualities are genius. The angled cantelivering should give no cause for alarm, nor should its perceived massiveness from differing angles.

2. I'm afraid it has to be said that the diamond elements in the original design somehow lost their raison d'etre (purpose) when they VE'd the bracing along 175G's east/west facade. However, maybe you can see an example of the visual continuum between the Z-bracing in the tower aforementioned and the also-aforementioned staggered cantilevers. And if indeed 175G's quad-spires are also out for good, it's just as well, since the focus point should indeed be 1WTC's spire. Besides, what good was Lord Foster's glorious crown to his contributions if siad crown could only be appreciated from virtually one side of the Hudson??
3. Overall. the sheer size of the cantilevers, the contextually *brilliant* use of the scroll ticker and the greenery combine to top out what I consider a monument to grander aspirations tweaked for the better.

PS: A friendly suggestion from me is to do some more research on Mr. Ingels' *marvelous* work if you haven't yet. Think of what could be if his low-rise structures were extrapolated to a 1,200' residential or something.

[JMGarcia]

Originally Posted by Enigmatism415

How, exactly? The flat top is really the only thing that makes it match the others more closely. All of the towers stand uniformly, and yet this one has those cantilevers plucked fresh from the fires of hell. Will the average tourist even recognize this building as being a part of the complex? It's as if they carved up the WTC and fed the pieces to different projects. This site really should have had a single architect from the beginning. Or better yet, the twins should have been rebuilt, which is what I had supported from the beginning.

The flat top is the primary reason, second is the facade materials, third is the minimalism in the details. The detailing in other towers is minimal and only done in broad strokes like BIG's tower. Foster's was much more detailed and refined.

[Enigmatism415]

Originally Posted by rlw777

Meld tribeca and FiDi
Poor solution to an imaginary problem. These boxes may be intended as a way to be contextual but it only serves to make it feel more out of place more alien. By attempting to meld tribeca and FiDi BIG has created the skyscraper equivalent of a futon it does two things poorly and nothing well.

It is precisely an imaginary problem. It was good that the WTC never matched TriBeCa because it served as a clear form of neighborhood demarcation. The styles are completely different and they ought to remain so. FiDi isn't a big place, and most of the city has that 'loft and park' feel already. FiDi is supposed to be an oasis of cold steel and glass, with bold and uniformly constructed shapes. We'll never have a stately Yamasaki design again and that kills me inside.

[BoM Trespasser]

Originally Posted by JayProReturneth

Brethren;
Long Time No Post

At the outset, I do wish for the love of Pete that this continuing reference to sloping orecaiously at such-and-such an angle would cease being perceived as some kind of flashback to the original twin's collapse, especially since only one buckled at a hardly perceptible degree at that, while the other simply collapsed straight down.

That said, my thoughts:

1. Indeed, while the overall concept of taking a simple hexagonal plot and milking it for its architectural worth was considered groundbreaking for maybe a decade ago, I rejoice with what I see Mr. Ingels has shown us today. Surely, most of you know that this is the one and same gentleman who has graced us with the West Side pyramid, The Calgary Telus tower and (IIRC) a stunning proposal for Seattle.
And surely, Mr. Ingals knew what he had to work with especially in regards to the sort of tenant Larry et al. are this close to establishing as the anchor. This is why, at closer look, all of this tower's exterior design qualities are genius. The angled cantelivering should give no cause for alarm, nor should its perceived massiveness from differing angles.

2. I'm afraid it has to be said that the diamond elements in the original design somehow lost their raison d'etre (purpose) when they VE'd the bracing along 175G's east/west facade. However, maybe you can see an example of the visual continuum between the Z-bracing in the tower aforementioned and the also-aforementioned staggered cantilevers. And if indeed 175G's quad-spires are also out for good, it's just as well, since the focus point should indeed be 1WTC's spire. Besides, what good was Lord Foster's glorious crown to his contributions if siad crown could only be appreciated from virtually one side of the Hudson??
3. Overall. the sheer size of the cantilevers, the contextually *brilliant* use of the scroll ticker and the greenery combine to top out what I consider a monument to grander aspirations tweaked for the better.

PS: Please do some more searching on Mr. Ingels' *marvelous* work. Think of what could be if his low-rise structures were extrapolated to a 1,200' residential or something.

chuckle

[Enigmatism415]

Originally Posted by JMGarcia

second is the facade materials, third is the minimalism in the details. The detailing in other towers is minimal and only done in broad strokes like BIG's tower. Foster's was much more detailed and refined.

Foster's façade matched the complex just fine. Foster's design was also more minimal in the sense that it looked as though someone lopped off the top of an otherwise boxy building at an angle with a sword. Yes, the roof was complex, but everything below was simple yet elegant.

[Enigmatism415]

Originally Posted by JayProReturneth

The angled cantelivering should give no cause for alarm, nor should its perceived massiveness from differing angles.

It has nothing to do with the twins nor their collapse. The cantilevering is a cause for aesthetic alarm. A structure heavy on the top and narrowing towards the bottom is ludicrous for the WTC; it absolutely doesn't fit. Get rid of the cantilevering and I'll swallow my other criticisms.

[Atlanta3000]

Here is what you can expect. Albeit with all glass and double the height

GA Pacific Building - Atlanta Built in 19 f'en 82!

[BoM Trespasser]

Originally Posted by Enigmatism415

It has nothing to do with the twins nor their collapse. The cantilevering is a cause for aesthetic alarm. A structure heavy on the top and narrowing towards the bottom is ludicrous for the WTC; it absolutely doesn't fit. Get rid of the cantilevering and I'll swallow my other criticisms.

Quite frankly I believe JayProReturneth's post was parody. Like Ingels WTC2.

[BoM Trespasser]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Here is what you can expect. Albeit with all glass and double the height

GA Pacific Building - Atlanta Built in 19 f'en 82!

Add electronic billboards and some trees.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by BoM Trespasser

Add electronic billboards and some trees.

Probably faux trees to boot.

I usually never curse on public forums, but this has got me REALLY heated. This here is what we call in the South: Your Standard C.C.O.B.

Classic Case of Bullsh!T.

[JayProReturneth]

Originally Posted by Enigmatism415

It has nothing to do with the twins nor their collapse. The cantilevering is a cause for aesthetic alarm. A structure heavy on the top and narrowing towards the bottom is ludicrous for the WTC; it absolutely doesn't fit. Get rid of the cantilevering and I'll swallow my other criticisms.

I respectfully disagree.

1. How is it top-heavy if it's somewhat obvious that the boxes actually thin out horizontally as they rise?? The cantilevering comes from the increasing degrees of twist the boxes take. Look at the street view with the digital ticker element.

BIG makes bold statements aplenty in this whole regard. For maybe the past decade, most of you wanted to see a visual statement made for this complex. Well? In one fell swoop this structure does that more than the 1WTC's "shell -spire", Lord Foster's Diamonds and Roger's original, unsullied homage to Dark Knight Batman's Gotham combined.

Yet it remains in keeping almost perfectly to the Libeskind principle.

This is out-of-the-box boxiness at its strikingly monolithic best.

[NYguy]

I

Originally Posted by meh_cd

The north side is just the worst.

Again, show me what was better from the north side in the old version. I really want to see it, especially after seeing so many complaints over the years that the only good or best view was from Jersey.

Originally Posted by dendenden

Damn it! I wanted to hate it so much! but that video sells the HELL out of it. I went from hate to love in 5 minutes.

That video is the best. It's what finally put it over the top for me.

As far as the news tickers go, yes, this is the new Dowtown, where surprisingly the new WTC has become a media haven.

As for anyone who thinks this is a sign that the "terrorists have won", you only present yourself as someone not to be taken seriously. What's more, you mock the very people who suffered or lost life as a result of the attacks. You might want to rethink and choose your words more carefully.

We are looking at what will likely be the largest single tenant signing to date at the new WTC, after so much doubt about rebuilding all that space. This is a win for the city, for the nation, for all of us. The site will be made whole and full of life.

Way to go Silverstein, you've kept your promise to rebuild. The man deserves a medal.

[JayProReturneth]

Originally Posted by BoM Trespasser

Quite frankly I believe JayProReturneth's post was parody. Like Ingels WTC2.

Parody of what?

The opinions (<operative word) expressed were my own and based on first and second impressions.

For a parody to exist there needs to be something to be the object of satire.

Now...If you truly believe that BIG's 200G is a parody of Lord Foster's 200G, you're certainly entitled to your opinion, as you've just registered. We can respectfully take different paths from there.

[ih8pickingusernames]

Whatever, the WTC means nothing now. This site lost it's power, symbolism, and importance 15 years ago. This building is disgusting, and whatever the new complex had is now forever lost. The whole site has been a joke and an embarrassment. Hopefully they just use Nordstrom and midtown for establishing shots in cinema so we don't have to see this tragic complex.