Winnipeg Retail

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The timing of an entry by Overwaitea into the Winnipeg market seems extremely off. I had time at the top of my list to be picking up stores in the Safeway court ordered sale. That they didn't put money on the table then to acquire some prime locations makes me really question what they will be doing now. There are different a few more prime locations on the market with Kenaston, Lag and Unicity being top of mind. It is possible they would pickup either the closed Lelia or Maples location as well. The extra warehouse on route 90 would likely make sense too.

Also while not an expert on this as I have not researched their store size, I would put Save on Foods as the leading contender for the Polo Park Target store.

In terms of St Vital, perhaps a take over of the Family Foods at Dakota and St Marys?

The FF on Dakota is so old, small and outdated I can't imagine that any major player would want it for a location... although the site is good and it's conceivable that Overwaitea could buy it and demolish the existing building to make way for a new one.

But I agree with what you're saying in that it's weird that Overwaitea is coming here... I don't know what they could really do other than snag locations in new suburbs as they pop up (much like how Sobey's entered the Edmonton market). The existing parts of the city are already pretty well covered with grocery stores.

[CoryB]

^^ It is not weird that Overwaitea is coming here, more than that timing seems very wrong. As I previously said I had them handicapped as the lead for the stores that Red River Coop scored. I doubt that Red River out bid Overwaitea unless they really low balled the process. Also, as a former partner with Sobey's I would imagine they have access to some information on sales in Winnipeg although it might be slightly dated.

In terms of their entry, as I mentioned in my previous post Sobey's currently operates stores that are very close proximity to each other and I am sure that will not continue long term. They have the following locations, and I am sure I will miss some:

Kenaston at McGillvary
Keewatin at Burrows
Regent at Lag
Portage at Calliver/Unicity

It is also possible with the right bid they may consider giving up their Sobey's location on Henderson HWY.

Another possibility is that Red River Coop has started looking for a way to exit the grocery market or has been approached to sell their stake.

In terms of groceries, Winnipeg has about seven main market regions:

St Vital
Whyte Ridge/Linden Woods
St James
Maples/Garden City
East/North Kildonan
Transcona
"City Centre" aka downtown/Polo Park

To me the biggest question market for Overwaitea or anyone else entering the market today regardless of taking over stores or new builds is what are you doing about the St Vital market.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by CoryB

Moving from rush seating to assigned seating just means the game has changed from who can or is willing to wait in line the longest to who has a fastest trigger finger in their browser. The game is really no different and all the hardcore people will know the exact second tickets are scheduled to go on sale so they can book their ideal seat.

I never had issues with the old rush seating style, even on opening night for the biggest of blockbusters.

Not really. It hasnt been my experience that movie tickets sell out at 12:01 (for example).

My most recent example is Age of Ultron. I think I looked online on the Wednesday of the week it opened and the Friday night shows were selling out (you could still get in but few seats left). I bought for Saturday afternoon. Didnt need a quick trigger finger. Actually spent quite some time on it going back and forth with my buddy to align our scheduled and decide what seats/theatre we wanted.

I think a lot of people buy tickets at the theater but I dont sense a mad rush for online purchases. We'll see what happens with Star Wars but even if there is a mad rush, its still a better experience because you're not stampeding inside to get a seat or holding seat for friends or having to lay your jacket across so you can grab popcorn etc.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by rkspec

same here...i'd rather scope out the theater first instead of picking a seat and having some tall dude or a lady with tall hair blocking my view.

if i was over 6ft tall then its a whole different story

Is that an issue in modern theaters? Im 6'2" so I defer to you but I've never noticed an issue with blockage in the modern venues with their tiered seating.

[rkspec]

sure, the bottom bit of the screen can get blocked, major issue...no, but in my bottom peripheral vision i don't see a straight cut off line of the screen.

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by rkspec

sure, the bottom bit of the screen can get blocked, major issue...no, but in my bottom peripheral vision i don't see a straight cut off line of the screen.

Fair point. I sometimes sit in the first row and people walking in front are an annoyance but the screens are so large now, it's never really a big deal.

[vjose32]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The timing of an entry by Overwaitea into the Winnipeg market seems extremely off. I had time at the top of my list to be picking up stores in the Safeway court ordered sale. That they didn't put money on the table then to acquire some prime locations makes me really question what they will be doing now. There are different a few more prime locations on the market with Kenaston, Lag and Unicity being top of mind. It is possible they would pickup either the closed Lelia or Maples location as well. The extra warehouse on route 90 would likely make sense too.

Also while not an expert on this as I have not researched their store size, I would put Save on Foods as the leading contender for the Polo Park Target store.

In terms of St Vital, perhaps a take over of the Family Foods at Dakota and St Marys?

Taking over Target doesn't make much sense. It seems like it's too big for a grocery store and who wants to go up to a second floor to do their grocery shopping anyway. Not to mention that there isn't exactly a lot of residential in the immediate area. I don't know, just doesn't seem like the best location. There are at least 3 good locations in north Winnipeg though.

[CoryB]

^^ I did some checking and it seems Save On Foods would normally look for space about have the size of the Polo Park Target. I guess I am too used to the crazily oversized Superstores we have here. The problem with that site design continues to challenge finding a replacement tenant.

I do wonder though if the timing of the Save of Foods announcement and the continued drive to find someone to anchor SkyCity Center might be related.

[drew]

Originally Posted by vjose32

Taking over Target doesn't make much sense. It seems like it's too big for a grocery store and who wants to go up to a second floor to do their grocery shopping anyway. Not to mention that there isn't exactly a lot of residential in the immediate area. I don't know, just doesn't seem like the best location. There are at least 3 good locations in north Winnipeg though.

There is a massive Superstore and newer Safeway both within a few blocks of that Target.

We go to that Superstore, and to say it does a good business would be putting it mildly.

There is a ton of residential in the immediate vicinity of PP. St.James, West End, Wolseley, etc. Certainly enough traffic to make a go for another grocery store.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by drew

There is a massive Superstore and newer Safeway both within a few blocks of that Target.

We go to that Superstore, and to say it does a good business would be putting it mildly.

There is a ton of residential in the immediate vicinity of PP. St.James, West End, Wolseley, etc. Certainly enough traffic to make a go for another grocery store.

The difference of course being that Superstore dominates the discount grocery sector in Winnipeg, while a Save on Foods would be going head to head with a much less busy and well established Safeway right nearby in the premium/full service grocery category.

I doubt that a Save on Foods would take away many Superstore customers, at least in that neck of the woods.

[drew]

^ PP is still a "premier" shopping area of the city. Whether or not Superstore's clientele will move is one thing, but plenty of people who come to shop at PP and surrounding areas - match SOF demographics.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by esquire

The difference of course being that Superstore dominates the discount grocery sector in Winnipeg, while a Save on Foods would be going head to head with a much less busy and well established Safeway right nearby in the premium/full service grocery category.

I doubt that a Save on Foods would take away many Superstore customers, at least in that neck of the woods.

Well see the problem with Safeway (why it went bankrupt, really) is that they charge a premium, but you don't really get premium products... just your groceries get bagged. Superstore has much better meat, and PC products are far superior to Safeway Select and even many name brand products. At least when you go to Sobeys you pay a bit of a premium and actually get premium products — the specialty meats (deli) and cheeses are amazing.

So I see a great market for SaveOnFoods there... it could demolish the Safeway, unless it does convert to a Sobeys.

[CoryB]

The covered and somewhat sheltered parking the Target site provides and what would likely be competitive market-entry pricing from Save On Foods could both make the Polo Park site attractive to shoppers who might go to Safeway or Superstore. I would definitely not count that location out.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The covered and somewhat sheltered parking the Target site provides and what would likely be competitive market-entry pricing from Save On Foods could both make the Polo Park site attractive to shoppers who might go to Safeway or Superstore. I would definitely not count that location out.

Yeah and if it is too big just for them I'm sure they could find some sort of business that wants some of it that would be fine with having similar hours. They could always close off their portion as well... The entrance area on the second floor is big... who cares if you walk past the grocery store get to the other one, it's like any mall.

[CoryB]

Not saying this is the exact model but it is not uncommon for Winnipeg grocery stores to have Liquor Mart Express stores, eye glass stores, banks, and even large sections for "ready to eat" foods. In theory the Target site could draw a line from front to back at the top of the entrance making that into a separate leasable unit. It wouldn't cut down the footprint too much. It might also be possible to even include a bump out of the remaining space. One of the challenges though will be that the loading dock is in the northwest corner while the customer entrance is in the southeast. Anything that would be isolated on the east side would need lighter use of the loading dock. Another possibility is the much discussed space split but someone is going to have to eat those costs upfront. The cart escalator would be ideal for a grocery store but the west side with high visibility and closer proximity to the loading dock would seem to be better suited if a grocery store was only taking half the floor print. Question is how expensive might it be to relocate that cart escalator.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by buzzg

Well see the problem with Safeway (why it went bankrupt, really) is that they charge a premium, but you don't really get premium products... just your groceries get bagged. Superstore has much better meat, and PC products are far superior to Safeway Select and even many name brand products.

All Safeways now carry Compliments. Far better.

[BAKGUY]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

All Safeways now carry Compliments. Far better.

What? Most of the meat @ Superstore is garbage! I am not a big beef consumer but Sobeys, Safeway have much better meats and fish.
I am not speaking of seafood.Co-op and FoodFare are better for meat as well.
The ground beef @ Superstore is red on top and bottom and GREY NSIDE and has a weird aroma as well. Most cuts are disgusting and not fresh!
I shop there also but not always impressed, the dairy which is often out of date or near expired as well.
I do get deals at Superstore on certain items but many times unhappy with produce like nectarines and pears picked too early and do no ripen properly and moldy raspberries etc...

[vjose32]

I think the best thing to do with the Target is implode it and start over, lol

[laumag]

Originally Posted by vjose32

I think the best thing to do with the Target is implode it and start over, lol

The Cadillac Fairview controlled retail developments do not usually include your standard grocery chain store, but specialty stores like Sunterra. Sunterra is a smaller version of Whole Foods and Trader Joe's combined. It is unlikely that the Polo Park empty Target Store will be transformed into a plain old run of the mill grocery store.

[CoryB]

^^ While Cadillac Fairview may not normally have a grocery chain in its development The Plaza one has included one for some time on the site plans. It was originally going to be east of the Target store. I am also sure they would rather have a grocery store signing a long term lease on the building that letting it sit empty for a long time waiting for the "ideal" tenant.

Originally Posted by BAKGUY

[@ Superstore] the dairy which is often out of date or near expired as well.

Now, you might be able to back up your other claims but this is clearly a lie. The volume of dairy Superstore sells means that it doesn't have a chance to sit on their shelf very long. If you had claimed the dairy was always sold out that would be far more believable.