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View Poll Results: Do you support the 0.5% increase to the Provincial Sales Tax in Metro Vancouver?
I support the 0.5% PST increase 141 78.33%
I do not 39 21.67%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1521  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2015, 5:42 AM
Steveston Steveston is offline
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Yep, spending $$ on art at transit stations is SUCH a waste of money.

Cause, of course, we'd never, ever want stations like these:

http://ca.complex.com/style/2013/02/the-...s-in-the-world/slavyansky-bulvar-station
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  #1522  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2015, 6:09 AM
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aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
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Originally Posted by casper View Post
If Scenario 1 is true then the organisation is completely miss-managed. If Scenario 2 is true then it is well managed but is exercising poor judgment in deciding to do this project over others that impact transporation.
Ah, damned if they do, and damned if they don't. So that must mean that you think any art at all is a waste. I respect your opinion, but don't share it.
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  #1523  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2015, 6:29 AM
Waders Waders is offline
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Originally Posted by dharper View Post
My prediction is the city of Vancouver will be a 'Yes', but by no more than 55%.
Call me optimistic, but I am hoping for a 60+% yes vote in the city of Vancouver.
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  #1524  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2015, 6:57 AM
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The big station renos will happen, no matter the plebiscite votes. It'll just take longer and likely be a cheaper end result. I'm not a big fan of art for arts sake - I'd rather see something architecturally pleasing. The extensions of the Metrotown Station roof look good - skylights so the space will look better, as well as being practical. A lot of the other stations on the other hand will be left to uhm I suppose weather is the politically correct word.


Pic: TransLink
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  #1525  
Old Posted Jun 7, 2015, 1:41 PM
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WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Commercial-Broadway upgrades are already underway too right?
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  #1526  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 4:15 AM
s211 s211 is offline
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No matter which way the vote falls, I'm not a fan of the results being published by municipality, because all that will do is create a venue for finger-pointing, and not likely create a venue for intelligent discourse.
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  #1527  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 4:58 AM
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I think it is great. Some of the major projects will still go ahead (just slower, one at a time, and with drama similar to getting the Evergreen Line off the ground) even if the "No" side wins (I feel it will be mostly the smaller upgrades that wont happen for sure, such as the B-line buses, increased frequencies, etc...) so the municipal results can be used to determine which major project gets built first.

Example, if Vancouver votes 60 percent yes, and Surrey votes 40 percent yes, and the vote in the end is a "No", well, then the next project to get built has been determined by the public`s desire, Broadway subway. All other major projects will be pushed further back in line for the limited funding.
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  #1528  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 5:41 AM
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Are they going to say what the yes / no ratio is for each area? I know they were saying where people were voting from (as they were screening the votes that came in) but will they be able to continue to do that with electronic counters and keep everything private?
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  #1529  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 10:07 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Have you seen the depressing drawings being installed at Union Station in Toronto?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward Skira View Post
Lousy shots from my phone this evening.



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  #1530  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 12:02 PM
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No subway service this morning since 6:30 in Toronto (8:00 am now), my goodness, I thought such transit system catastrophes only happened to the evil Translink...
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  #1531  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 12:11 PM
Kisai Kisai is offline
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Originally Posted by Metro-One View Post
No subway service this morning since 6:30 in Toronto (8:00 am now), my goodness, I thought such transit system catastrophes only happened to the evil Translink...
http://www.cp24.com/news/ttc-subways-back-in-service-after-hour-long-stoppage-1.2411387
Quote:
Subway train service on all four lines was suspended for more than an hour during the Monday morning rush hour, after the radio system train operators use to communicate with the control room failed entirely, the Toronto Transit Commission said.
Trains were holding in stations on the Yonge-University-Spadina line, the Bloor-Danforth line, the Sheppard line and the Scarborough RT, as crews rush to restore radio service, from before 6:30 a.m. to about 7:40 a.m.
"If we can't communicate with our subway trains, we can't run service," TTC spokesperson Brad Ross told CP24. He said all communication systems, including telephone and internet service, failed at the service's central control centre. Ross said they are not yet sure what caused the radio outage.
This is essentially the same situation where the power was kicked out last year on the Skytrain. The difference here is that none of their lines are fully automated, so had the communications dropped out while trains were running, the brakes should have fired on every train too.
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  #1532  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 1:47 PM
Caliplanner1 Caliplanner1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisai View Post
http://www.cp24.com/news/ttc-subways-back-in-service-after-hour-long-stoppage-1.2411387


This is essentially the same situation where the power was kicked out last year on the Skytrain. The difference here is that none of their lines are fully automated, so had the communications dropped out while trains were running, the brakes should have fired on every train too.
The bigger point here is that no one is screaming that because of these systemic failures in Toronto (New York or elsewhere) transportation funding should be drastically curtailed for system expansion/improvement etc.!
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  #1533  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 2:53 PM
memememe76 memememe76 is offline
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The bigger point here is that no one is screaming that because of these systemic failures in Toronto (New York or elsewhere) transportation funding should be drastically curtailed for system expansion/improvement etc.!
Just read a news article. The comments are hardly complimentary.

Isn't it the Toronto media that went after a Subway employee for sleeping or something?
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  #1534  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 4:22 PM
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News 1130 is also reporting Compass Card problems this morning. But they are also comparing it to much worse problems with Chicago's system (for a change).

I think the lesson here is that most people in their local area hate their transit system. Spending and system performance can be objectively broken down, which shows Translink to generally be doing a good job.

But, you'll never convince the voting public to spend more money. So it takes politicians with balls to make the right long term investments. That's what we are lacking here.
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  #1535  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 9:06 PM
BCPhil BCPhil is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by casper View Post
My point again is "Why is the transit authority spending resources on this". Yes, you can outsource things that are not core to your business. My guess is that from an engineering and safety perspective they properly managed it and from an internal financial controls perspective they probably properly managed it. Doing that would require resources being allocated to drive it. Which of the these scenarios do thing is likely:


Scenario 1 - Fully outsource.
-------------------------------

Translink contracts someone to do art. Here is the budget. Pick what ever art you like, erect the art anywhere you like, we don't care. Our engineering people who maintain the drawing for our site don't care where you put the Art or if it is reflected on their drawings or not. Our communication people don't care what you do. Permits, we don't worry about that. Our safety people are ok with brining in cranes and don't want to provide oversight for work carried out on Translink property. Our security people don't need to be engaged or aware, just go do it.

Scenario 2 - It is Managed
----------------------------

Someone at translink allocates a budget. The communication people have a say in it. The engineering people determine the impact installing a poodle on a platform will have and add it their drawings. They probably spend some time figuring out if they need a permit and what safety precautions are needed. The safety people do a hazard assessment on the installation work. The security people are engaged. Procurement people spend time administering contracts.


If Scenario 1 is true then the organisation is completely miss-managed. If Scenario 2 is true then it is well managed but is exercising poor judgment in deciding to do this project over others that impact transporation. Perhaps it is somewhere between the two. You simply can not do a project like this without consuming internal resources.
It is scenario 2. How is it not? I don't understand what you are getting at. And how is scenario 2 in anyway compatible with giving the space away. Translink has done pretty much all the actual work, all that needs to be done is pay the artist.

Translink is commissioning the art. It is on their property, they are responsible for it, so they pay for it.

What community group would want to raise a lot of money to have what is basically an expensive asset, on someone else's property. The insurance would be a nightmare.

What this comes down to is people didn't get the poodle. At least if you were from outside Main (I've heard a lot of Main Street residents loving it). Translink spends money on art like cars in glass cases on a wall or photographs of Canada Line construction at waterfront, and it is awesome. A poodle on a stick and translink is wasting money.

The important thing is that Art does make our city better. Art in/around stations make the station more human, more part of the community, more pleasant, and as a result, more safe.

Someone has to pay for it. It is better that the land owners who are responsible for their property and maintenance get to chose the art they think is most appropriate for their property.

You think a poodle on a stick is bad, what if Translink turned their property over and got a devil with a giant — back?
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  #1536  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 10:42 PM
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TransLink's portion of the poodle was about $30,000. For that they could hire one driver for about 3 months.

Hooray! By taking away the poodle we've completely solved TransLink's funding problems! Build that subway to UBC!

Face it: all of the "waste" such as the poodle or executive salaries or even that building by Edmonds doesn't amount to much. You could cut all of that and have enough money to buy a handful of buses, which doesn't help people travel down Broadway, and it doesn't help replace the Pattullo Bridge, and it doesn't help get any sort of rapid transit in Surrey or Langley.

It's a real shame that these examples keep coming up even though they've been debunked over and over again. It shows that out-of-context numbers matter, and even when you put context around them, people continue to (wrongly) believe in them.
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  #1537  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2015, 11:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
You think a poodle on a stick is bad, what if Translink turned their property over and got a devil with a giant — back?
Yes please!


Pic by Murray Castonguay
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  #1538  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCPhil View Post
It is scenario 2. How is it not? I don't understand what you are getting at. And how is scenario 2 in anyway compatible with giving the space away. Translink has done pretty much all the actual work, all that needs to be done is pay the artist.

.......

What community group would want to raise a lot of money to have what is basically an expensive asset, on someone else's property. The insurance would be a nightmare.

What this comes down to is people didn't get the poodle. .....

Someone has to pay for it. It is better that the land owners who are responsible for their property and maintenance get to chose the art they think is most appropriate for their property.
....
The point I was making was in response to an earlier post, about how it is likely just contracted out and there is no internal resources involved.

My point is the poodle project is a distraction from running a transit authority. Is it an isolated distraction or part of a systematic trend to drift off onto other things? I don't know. Someone who is more involved directly with translink can answer that.

I will admit I don't "get the poodle", I have read the Montreal based artists description of how the poodle reflects main street pawn-shop culture. I still don't get it.

My point is not if it is good art or bad art. My point is translink should focus on transportation. We elect people (councils, MLS, MPs) to decide how much money to give the art groups vrs translink. Remember Translink is not paying its own way through fares it is still subsidised by government. I would be equally upset if the Vancouver Art Gallery was getting a grant to run an arts program and instead it decided it would operate a street car system with the money instead.

If Translink has some space in the station that would be good for public art then go to the public art people and get them to do there part.

In other words I am looking for accountability. The Translink staff should be fairly paid relative to their peers but not over paid. If they are given money for transportation they should spend it on transportation not art.
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  #1539  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 1:13 AM
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I think you really dont understand how "public art" works. Art will not just pop up in stations for free, it has to be bought / leased using money. You also ignored the fact that if a third party does this, then there are hefty insurance costs involved (and likely legal liabilities) that would then involve a lot of management.

I love how people here cry foul about our stations being "plain" and boring, and then show examples of showpiece stations from around the world, decorated to the — with art and extremely expensive structures, then when Translink does even the slightest action towards such, it becomes a huge waste of money!
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  #1540  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 1:19 AM
Caliplanner1 Caliplanner1 is offline
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Just read a news article. The comments are hardly complimentary. Isn't it the Toronto media that went after a Subway employee for sleeping or something?
I have read the article. In the wider scheme of transit funding support folks back east in Montreal and Toronto seem to be more appreciative of their urban rail system to the point where they're not calling for punitive funding cuts (to system development/expansion) just because of periodic system shut down/failure!!

Last edited by Caliplanner1; Jun 9, 2015 at 1:34 AM.
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