Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

They just renovated it... new seats, new jumbotron, the club seating/patio thing on the south end, the training centre/fieldhouse, the new playing surface, and it hasn't even been that long since they expanded the concourses with the unfortunately ugly additions dating back to the 2001 IAAF Worlds. What more needs to be done? Sinking the field to add seats is lunacy because it doesn't bring the existing seats any closer to the field... all that is is an exercise in expanding the stadium's capacity, which is not necessary in Edmonton.

Not with what I'm proposing because you would scrap the end zone seating on the scoreboard side. (THF style) They are 50-60 feet from the field anyway and usually covered with tarps so I'm sure they wont be missed and theirs at least 10,000 seats their which will translate into the seats you will gain from expanding the first 5-6 rows or so. make the 2 endzone seats on the other side some loge seats or 2 separate private balconies.

Originally Posted by esquire

The thing with Beamo is that whereas NMS and IGF represent a big step in the evolution of stadiums, Beamo just looks like a rebuilt version of Lansdowne Stadium in Ottawa... yeah it has club seats and other places where MLSE can take your money, but the basic built form is no different than a CFL stadium circa 1969 with a mismatched jumble of stands. That's partly why it's such a letdown.

By MLS standards it's not bad since MLS stadiums tend to be on the smaller and more modest side, but by CFL standards it's underwhelming and by "national soccer stadium" standards it's a complete and utter joke.

Fair enough. I'm not saying BMO is going to revolutionize the CFL all I'm getting at is that it's on par with other eastern CFL Stadiums. And well above Calgary and Montreal's Situation

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

The thing with Beamo is that whereas NMS and IGF represent a big step in the evolution of stadiums, Beamo just looks like a rebuilt version of Lansdowne Stadium in Ottawa... yeah it has club seats and other places where MLSE can take your money, but the basic built form is no different than a CFL stadium circa 1969 with a mismatched jumble of stands. That's partly why it's such a letdown.

By MLS standards it's not bad since MLS stadiums tend to be on the smaller and more modest side, but by CFL standards it's underwhelming and by "national soccer stadium" standards it's a complete and utter joke.

Wow, the amount of soccer-stadium ignorance on this thread is unbelievable...I could always school some of you guys on this but most of those with no clue are CFL-centric fans, not the most rational and intelligent audience out there...

[Oilkountry]

Montreal takes the wind out of my sails a bit on the stadium front. At least with Calgary you know eventually their is an answer. Might be 10 years away but something will happen. In Montreal their is no big Reno, No new Stadium. They seem to be happy with Percival Molson. And that really sucks. If that place had individual seating and a big scoreboard and just a spruce up in general it wouldn't be so bad. But that Concrete Draped in concrete look just kills me. bench seats, Running track, bush league scoreboard. YUK. You would think when the Als ownership got the money to expand the Stadium they would have thrown some of their own money in to modernize it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Fair enough. I'm not saying BMO is going to revolutionize the CFL all I'm getting at is that it's on par with other eastern CFL Stadiums. And well above Calgary and Montreal's Situation

I'll agree with you there. A brand new stadium will typically work better than ones that are decades old.

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Montreal takes the wind out of my sails a bit on the stadium front. At least with Calgary you know eventually their is an answer. Might be 10 years away but something will happen. In Montreal their is no big Reno, No new Stadium. They seem to be happy with Percival Molson. And that really sucks. If that place had individual seating and a big scoreboard and just a spruce up in general it wouldn't be so bad. But that Concrete Draped in concrete look just kills me. bench seats, Running track, bush league scoreboard. YUK. You would think when the Als ownership got the money to expand the Stadium they would have thrown some of their own money in to modernize it.

For better or for worse Montreal is going to have Molson as the home of the Als for decades to come as any move would be a big downgrade in terms of site and location.

What they really need to do is to play up the history of the place and sell it as the Fenway or Wrigley of CFL stadiums... it's the only way to get the fans to accept the venue's shortcomings relative to newer, more modern facilities. But for what it's worth it isn't that bad... they've done a nice job fixing it up over the years. I was last in there for a game in the late 90s (pre-renos), and even then it didn't seem that bad... not markedly worse than the old Winnipeg Stadium at the time, and the location is impossible to beat.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Wow, the amount of soccer-stadium ignorance on this thread is unbelievable...I could always school some of you guys on this but most of those with no clue are CFL-centric fans, not the most rational and intelligent audience out there...

This is why CFL and MLS fans bump heads. YOU come on here just throwing swords because you're offended about something said or more often Not said. instead of pitching into the conversation and sharing your veiws. That instant criticism will get you nowhere. I'm probably one of the most active members of this thread I constantly disagree with posts and visa versa but we can all seem to give each other the benefit of the doubt and agree to disagree. You're looking for trouble MC

[Mister F]

Originally Posted by king10

Street car line next door as well.

...which is an LRT by any definition. What an odd criticism that was.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'll agree with you there. A brand new stadium will typically work better than ones that are decades old.



For better or for worse Montreal is going to have Molson as the home of the Als for decades to come as any move would be a big downgrade in terms of site and location.

What they really need to do is to play up the history of the place and sell it as the Fenway or Wrigley of CFL stadiums... it's the only way to get the fans to accept the venue's shortcomings relative to newer, more modern facilities. But for what it's worth it isn't that bad... they've done a nice job fixing it up over the years. I was last in there for a game in the late 90s (pre-renos), and even then it didn't seem that bad... not markedly worse than the old Winnipeg Stadium at the time, and the location is impossible to beat.

I guess you're right on the fenway thing they could definitely run with that heritage. The structure itself isn't all bad. It's quite Intimate really. But the bench seating is such an eye sore. Stained concrete just isn't appealing. And the running track is hideous. Again a small investment could do wonders for the place.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I guess you're right on the fenway thing they could definitely run with that heritage. The structure itself isn't all bad. It's quite Intimate really. But the bench seating is such an eye sore. Stained concrete just isn't appealing. And the running track is hideous. Again a small investment could do wonders for the place.

I think they've done what they can with what they've got. Maybe they can put backs on the benches, but I know that when they actually replaced benches with individual seats at old Winnipeg Stadium, legroom was horrendous because the rows were never designed for that kind of seating. Anyone over 5' 9" or so would have been better off with the benches. Molson should avoid that mistake.

FWIW the first few rows on the south side stand have individual seats for those who need the back/arm rest... although they are priced accordingly... some of the most expensive regular season tickets in the entire CFL IIRC.

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by esquire

Anyone over 5' 9" or so would have been better off with the benches.

REVENGE OF THE SHORT PEOPLE.

(Am 5'8")

[Berklon]

Trying to sell Percival Molson as the Fenway or Wrigley field of the CFL doesn't quite work. The stadium may be old, but it's history isn't really with the Alouettes. They played there for around 15 years before Olympic Stadium and another 15+ years after it - but there's no sense of the stadiums history being tied to the Alouettes.

When you think Fenway, you think Red Sox... Wrigley - Cubs... Maple Leaf Gardens - Leafs. Because those teams were a huge part of the stadiums history. The Alouettes don't really have that with Percival Molson.

The location is great and it's very intimate the way it's nestled in it's surroundings - but the physical stadium itself is a problem. They need to build a new 25,000-30,000 seat stadium in the same location. No track around the field to make it even more intimate and the seats would go around in a U shape - leaving only the one endzone opened up (patio area?).

[Johnny Tsunami]

"Frankenstadiums". You could probably start a new thread with that.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Trying to sell Percival Molson as the Fenway or Wrigley field of the CFL doesn't quite work. The stadium may be old, but it's history isn't really with the Alouettes. They played there for around 15 years before Olympic Stadium and another 15+ years after it - but there's no sense of the stadiums history being tied to the Alouettes.

When you think Fenway, you think Red Sox... Wrigley - Cubs... Maple Leaf Gardens - Leafs. Because those teams were a huge part of the stadiums history. The Alouettes don't really have that with Percival Molson.

The location is great and it's very intimate the way it's nestled in it's surroundings - but the physical stadium itself is a problem. They need to build a new 25,000-30,000 seat stadium in the same location. No track around the field to make it even more intimate and the seats would go around in a U shape - leaving only the one endzone opened up (patio area?).

Yeah, I get what you're saying regarding the lack of Alouette history there... they really only played there for a bit of their history (54-67, 72, 98-present, according to Wikipedia). But what I was getting at was more so the old-timey feel as opposed to team history and tradition.

Molson Stadium will soon be the only really old major stadium left in Canada, and few venues anywhere are as finely woven into the urban fabric as it happens to be. The Alouettes might as well make the most of those facts and sell the charm of the place. No new venue could ever come close to duplicating the intimate charm of Molson Stadium.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

Let's get some numbers... BMO doesn't look like it has THAT many clubs and suites.

Once NMS opens, the only real "Franken-stadiums" that will be left are TD and Molson. And Molson pulls it off well in that wonky, old Fenway Park kind of way.

As for McMahon, even though it's old, it was built as a whole and has maintained a remarkable level of symmetry through the years.

BMO Field Expansion

Phase I

- 12 new executive suites(on top of existing 30 luxury suites), 2 party suites and a loge box
- New full service kitchen for restaurants, suites and clubs
- Two new private clubs:
- West Grandstand, Event Level – 230 patrons
- East Grandstand, Event Level – 420 patrons
- Expansion of Rogers Club – current capacity of 500 is increased to 750 with upgraded look and feel, improved food and beverage and washroom facilities

Thats 45 suites and 1400 club seats.

For comparison THF has 30 suites and 1000 club seats.
IGF has 46 suites.
New mosaic has 38 suites
BC Place 50 suites and 1300 club seats
TD Place 24 suites
Molson Stadium 21 suites
Commonwealth has 30 suites

Can't seem to find a number for McMahon

[esquire]

^ OK. So NMS will have 38 suites, and IGF has 46. TD Place is smaller but in the same ballpark with 24, and Tim Hortons Field has 30. There are other premium seating/club options that I'm too lazy to look up, but purely in terms of suites it looks like the venues are roughly on par with each other. By no means does Beamo blow away the new CFL stadiums on that front.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ OK. So NMS will have 38 suites, and IGF has 46. TD Place is smaller but in the same ballpark with 24, and Tim Hortons Field has 30. There are other premium seating/club options that I'm too lazy to look up, but purely in terms of suites it looks like the venues are roughly on par with each other. By no means does Beamo blow away the new CFL stadiums on that front.

It doesn't blow them away but is in the upper third and has the most for its capacity. So punches a bit above its weight. Would be good revenue for the Argos and they'll be able to retain more of that revenue unlike rogers centre.

[thurmas]

I think Molson Stadium's location is just too good for the Als to leave. The location serves them perfectly being in the heart of downtown and close to their main fan base from the West Island. What may need to happen in the next 10 years is for the Als to do a $100 million renovation project where they tear down the larger west side grandstand and rebuild it with a new 25,000 seat 2 tier grandstand with more and better suites for revenue generation and seats with backs and cup holders to bring it into the modern age. Also with a new 25,000 seat west side grandstand Molson stadium altogether would have a capacity over 40,000 and could host Grey Cups in Montreal and not worry weather the roof at the Big Owe will cave in. This might mean the Alouettes will have to play 1 season at the Big Owe while the reno is on.

[king10]

Originally Posted by thurmas

I think Molson Stadium's location is just too good for the Als to leave. The location serves them perfectly being in the heart of downtown and close to their main fan base from the West Island. What may need to happen in the next 10 years is for the Als to do a $100 million renovation project where they tear down the larger west side grandstand and rebuild it with a new 25,000 seat 2 tier grandstand with more and better suites for revenue generation and seats with backs and cup holders to bring it into the modern age. Also with a new 25,000 seat west side grandstand Molson stadium altogether would have a capacity over 40,000 and could host Grey Cups in Montreal and not worry weather the roof at the Big Owe will cave in. This might mean the Alouettes will have to play 1 season at the Big Owe while the reno is on.

No way the neighbourhood and McGill (the owners of the stadium) allow the Al's to go as big as 40 000. They had enough trouble going to 25 000 seats with neighbourhood opposition. Not to mention they haven't been able to sell 25 000 seats so took out the endzone seating and reduced capacity to 23 000.

The Al's have very little say at Molson, McGill makes them take down their banners and logos after every game.

[Berklon]

I really don't see a 40,000 seat stadium fitting in that small area - unless you built really high - and then that would look weird and lose it's imtimacy. Plus they really don't need something that size.

30,000 is the max you could fit in there and still keep it intimate and not stick out like a sore thumb in relation to the rest of the area.

[esquire]

^ Yeah, not a chance that Molson would be expanded to 40,000. Maybe if they can achieve consistent sellouts again they could have a small incremental increase to 30,000 or so (in stages, a couple thousand at a time... not all at once), but that would be about it.

[thurmas]

Well what you could also do without disturbing the current regular season capacity of Molson stadium is keep the steel bench seating but just add backs to them at minimal cost thus keeping the old-school feel but add some comfort. Also for more revenue generation add a second tier of suites on top of the current suites similar to what they have done at Lambeau field over the years. This helps keep the Als competitive with the new stadiums coming up through the league the last few years. As to Montreal hosting Grey Cups the Big Owe is the draw back. The roof issue is just too big a issue to ignore, the stadium is 40 years old and crumbling with no maintenance being done. I am sure a temp 10-15000 seat temporary grand stand can be set up on the north end zone hill at Molson Stadium for one weekend and then taken down to please the neighborhood. The Als might go the Boston Red Sox route at Fenway and renovate Molson for several years in a piece meal manner. The longer this goes Montreal misses out on 10's of millions in lost Grey Cup tourism dollars because of having no stadium capable of holding the big dance in late November.