PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[Urbana]

So I was perusing the website of Design Collective (an architectural firm out of Baltimore) looking at their renderings of the Eastside III development.

For those interested, there are a couple interesting perspectives in there that are new to me.

A great deal more interesting than that, though, is that they also had a page dedicated to One Grandview project. It was reported in January that the Grandview developer was teaming up with Mosites to help bring the project to fruition and that there is renewed confidence. The number of apartments and parking spaces indicated on the architects' page matches the January article pretty closely - so hopefully we are looking at the first tangible evidence of this project's revival.

I must say, I think it is drop dead gorgeous.


source

It seems to be everything the shitty old design from Desmone was trying to be.

[BrianTH]

Holy toledo, that would be awesome. That swimming pool cantilevered out the edge could be one of the coolest spots in Pittsburgh--heck, North America.

The finish materials for Eastside III look different, and in fact nicer for once, than I was expecting.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Urbana

So I was perusing the website of Design Collective (an architectural firm out of Baltimore) looking at their renderings of the Eastside III development.

For those interested, there are a couple interesting perspectives in there that are new to me.

A great deal more interesting than that, though, is that they also had a page dedicated to One Grandview project. It was reported in January that the Grandview developer was teaming up with Mosites to help bring the project to fruition and that there is renewed confidence. The number of apartments and parking spaces indicated on the architects' page matches the January article pretty closely - so hopefully we are looking at the first tangible evidence of this project's revival.

I must say, I think it is drop dead gorgeous.


source

It seems to be everything the shitty old design from Desmone was trying to be.

Great find -- thanks for sharing. This would be awesome... especially if they build that salmon ladder/waterfall-looking pool out over the edge.

[Private Dick]

It'll be nice to see this go up this summer

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Urbana

A great deal more interesting than that, though, is that they also had a page dedicated to One Grandview project. It was reported in January that the Grandview developer was teaming up with Mosites to help bring the project to fruition and that there is renewed confidence. The number of apartments and parking spaces indicated on the architects' page matches the January article pretty closely - so hopefully we are looking at the first tangible evidence of this project's revival.

I must say, I think it is drop dead gorgeous.

It seems to be everything the shitty old design from Desmone was trying to be.

You know, I don't comment much, because I don't regularly see many of the projects under construction, and I don't typically catch new news before someone else has posted it. And anyway a lot of the projects are kind of yeah, ok, good to see steady new development, more residential, good for that area of town, etc. It's all good but it doesn't exactly require an additional "Yeah that's good" comment.

But this one, that rendition gives the appearance that it could be something pretty amazing. I hope that all involved have the balls to go through with it, that it doesn't get diluted by nimbys or stupid planning or finance issues. Seems like a design truly worthy of that spot.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Holy toledo, that would be awesome. That swimming pool cantilevered out the edge could be one of the coolest spots in Pittsburgh--heck, North America.

The finish materials for Eastside III look different, and in fact nicer for once, than I was expecting.

The white brick work looks amazing in person.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

The white brick work looks amazing in person.

Agreed. It fits right into the older apartment buildings in that area, which is cool.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

... especially if they build that salmon ladder/waterfall-looking pool out over the edge.

It does kinda look like all those people are swimming for their lives . . .

[eschaton]

I'm still having a hard time visualizing the last building closest to Target, even though the concrete posts are in. I mean, I know it has unusual dimensions, but it just seems based upon the placement of the posts to be way too small of a footprint for a sizable apartment building. The new renderings are pretty, but clearly focus on building 2.

[Wiz Khalifa]

Wow, that Grandview render looks absolutely incredible! If a close version of this gets built, it will have been worth all the years of delays, scrapped designs, and nimby complaints to get to this point. Amazing.

IMO, the best part of those Eastside III buildings has to be the lack of those gaudy roof overhangs that criminally incompetent architects are slapping onto apartments and hotel projects all over the city right now.

[Urbana]

Originally Posted by Wiz Khalifa

Wow, that Grandview render looks absolutely incredible! If a close version of this gets built, it will have been worth all the years of delays, scrapped designs, and nimby complaints to get to this point. Amazing.

IMO, the best part of those Eastside III buildings has to be the lack of those gaudy roof overhangs that criminally incompetent architects are slapping onto apartments and hotel projects all over the city right now.

I agree. Eastside III is looking very sharp. But your comment brings something to mind that I have been thinking about a lot lately - something that is especially apparent when comparing Desmone's old design for One Grandview with Design Collective's. Pittsburgh architects are just plain awful. Of course I wouldn't expect a mid-sized city like Pittsburgh to have the cream of the crop. But for god sake nothing that comes out of local firms seems to be palatable in the slightest. The best they ever seem to achieve is satisfactory.

I don't know what others thoughts on this are. There are several exceptions and I am probably overstating the case. It is also possible that architects' visions are being value engineered by less than stellar local developers.

This post is probably a bit over the top, but I am getting pretty disillusioned with the quality of design in the city right now.

Edit: I realize this post is perhaps a bit ironically placed given that we are in the midst of discussing two pretty stellar designs (though they come from an out of town firm).

[Wave]

Great find. Its pretty spectacular. This is from the Design Collective website. I did not realize the scale of this project...the two tallest structures appear in the rendering to be 17 & 20 stories.

"One Grandview
the mosites company

Location Pittsburgh, PA

Design Collective was engaged by The Mosites Company to design a mixed-use development in the scenic Mt. Washington neighborhood of Pittsburgh, PA. The development will include approximately 436,267 square feet of mixed-use space including a 252,810 square foot X-story residential building featuring 272 apartment units and 12 townhomes, 7,505 square feet of retail space, an 82,030 square foot hotel with 122 rooms and ballroom, an upper and lower clubhouse totaling 12,775 square feet, and a 213,969 square foot parking garage featuring approximately 500 parking spaces."

Originally Posted by Urbana

So I was perusing the website of Design Collective (an architectural firm out of Baltimore) looking at their renderings of the Eastside III development.

For those interested, there are a couple interesting perspectives in there that are new to me.

A great deal more interesting than that, though, is that they also had a page dedicated to One Grandview project. It was reported in January that the Grandview developer was teaming up with Mosites to help bring the project to fruition and that there is renewed confidence. The number of apartments and parking spaces indicated on the architects' page matches the January article pretty closely - so hopefully we are looking at the first tangible evidence of this project's revival.

I must say, I think it is drop dead gorgeous.


source

It seems to be everything the shitty old design from Desmone was trying to be.

[Urbana]

Originally Posted by Wave

the two tallest structures appear in the rendering to be 17 & 20 stories.."

I think 17 and 20 is probably a bit generous. I think it is 15 max for the tallest one (look at the people in the pool and the streetlights for scale). There was a report earlier this year that is would be 12. Most of the building below street level appears to be a parking garage.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Urbana

Pittsburgh architects are just plain awful. Of course I wouldn't expect a mid-sized city like Pittsburgh to have the cream of the crop. But for god sake nothing that comes out of local firms seems to be palatable in the slightest. The best they ever seem to achieve is satisfactory.

I don't know what others thoughts on this are. There are several exceptions and I am probably overstating the case. It is also possible that architects' visions are being value engineered by less than stellar local developers.

This post is probably a bit over the top, but I am getting pretty disillusioned with the quality of design in the city right now.

Edit: I realize this post is perhaps a bit ironically placed given that we are in the midst of discussing two pretty stellar designs (though they come from an out of town firm).

Don't want to say that they all are awful, but I kind of agree. The city has hurt in the design department for awhile now. Pittsburgh is experiencing mini boom right now (it's not mini for Pittsburgh, but in comparison to other places, it's mini), and with any boom, you seem to get a good bit of crap... especially at the onset of an increase in construction in an area. I think it follows naturally that design quality and overall development quality improve as the value of building construction in an area increases. It seems to be getting better in Pittsburgh to me. Pittsburgh hasn't recently been a place where notable architects are going to set up shop and choose to practice. The demand and money to pay for top firms just hasn't been here and there hasn't been much outside real estate development investment interest until very recently.

So while there are some good architects here, it's true that it's far from the cream of the crop. And all projects will be "value engineered", so it takes a good architect to produce good design knowing this fact -- lower-level, local developers or not.

I think we're going to be much happier with some of the bigger commercial/residential projects that are on the horizon for Pittsburgh, with firms like Perkins+Will and Forest City, not to mention institutional developments like at CMU.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Urbana

So I was perusing the website of Design Collective (an architectural firm out of Baltimore) looking at their renderings of the Eastside III development.

For those interested, there are a couple interesting perspectives in there that are new to me.

A great deal more interesting than that, though, is that they also had a page dedicated to One Grandview project. It was reported in January that the Grandview developer was teaming up with Mosites to help bring the project to fruition and that there is renewed confidence. The number of apartments and parking spaces indicated on the architects' page matches the January article pretty closely - so hopefully we are looking at the first tangible evidence of this project's revival.

I must say, I think it is drop dead gorgeous.


source

It seems to be everything the shitty old design from Desmone was trying to be.

The two towers seem too plain and conservative to me but i like the left half of the plan. That's my gripe with the existing Mt Wash skyline. Needs more style. Like, build some world class shit up there.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

It'll be nice to see this go up this summer

These look awesome. Some of the best in the city right now. This is a good example of what I would like to see a lot more of in Pittsburgh. Modern, european stylish apartment blocks of density. This looks like it would be built in Rotterdam or Berlin right now.

[chiaroscuro]

Wasn't Perkins+Will supposed to have presented their plans for the Almono site by now?

[Topher51]

Originally Posted by Urbana

It is also possible that architects' visions are being value engineered by less than stellar local developers.

From the perspective of a structural engineer who has worked with many local architects on many local projects, 99% of the time this is the case.

Just like most of you all, I am a fan of interesting and creative design (as well historic preservation), but an architect is limited by the vision and the purse strings of their client. I've seen countless conceptual designs that blow me away, but by the time they have gone through schematic design, value engineering, and code review they turn into standard looking buildings. That is not the doing of the architect.

Regarding One Grandview; none of us know the requests and restrictions the developer put on the architect or how many times they changed their minds over the years. I agree, the new concept looks awesome, but the hotel tower concept was good and so was the revised residential only concept (which I saw in person, but don't recall if that was ever made public). Any one of them would/will be the best looking building on the bluff, with the exception of the church.

I don't know what the rest of you all do for a living, but I doubt you all would appreciate reading in a public forum just how terrible your work is.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Topher51

Just like most of you all, I am a fan of interesting and creative design (as well historic preservation), but an architect is limited by the vision and the purse strings of their client. I've seen countless conceptual designs that blow me away, but by the time they have gone through schematic design, value engineering, and code review they turn into standard looking buildings. That is not the doing of the architect.

Conceptual designs are just that, concepts. Good design is contextual, and takes into account all the associated limitations, and still ends up producing a notable structure. That's one of the things that separates very successful architects from those who design CVSs, AutoZones, and staircases and dining halls for assisted living complexes.

Originally Posted by Topher51

I don't know what the rest of you all do for a living, but I doubt you all would appreciate reading in a public forum just how terrible your work is.

Well, you nailed it right there with "public forum"... urban architecture is as public as public gets.

[Private Dick]

And I think that it is important to realize that in many cases of bad or bland design of new development in Pittsburgh, it is the work of non-local architects.