Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[West22]

This talk of cut and cover on 10th Ave is one of the reasons I sold my house on 10th Ave 10 years ago (maybe I was a little early). There are a lot of wealthy homeowners who would be affected with inconvenience and loss of property value if a C&C line is built there. I expect they would raise a bigger stink than was made by the relatively small number of businesses affected by the Canada Line construction, and I would be very surprised if the CoV, Province, and Translink would opt for this option.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by city-dweller

But seriously, I don't like the idea of the Arbutus - UBC section being part of a future phase. They need it sooner to address the UBC density and the upcoming Jericho development.

My guess is that the province will wait for Translink to scrape and beg its way to arranging funding up to Arbutus, and then the province will magically find funds and/or pillage the UBC endowment to pay for the rest of the route to be built at the same time. The Musqueam will be tapped to pay for 1 station near their land, which will also improve how the line services the campus. All just my speculation of course.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by West22

This talk of cut and cover on 10th Ave is one of the reasons I sold my house on 10th Ave 10 years ago (maybe I was a little early). There are a lot of wealthy homeowners who would be affected with inconvenience and loss of property value if a C&C line is built there. I expect they would raise a bigger stink than was made by the relatively small number of businesses affected by the Canada Line construction, and I would be very surprised if the CoV, Province, and Translink would opt for this option.

Yeah, people here seem to be forgetting that people live on 10th. And people seem to be forgetting the difference between people and businesses: People can vote; businesses can't.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

Yeah, people here seem to be forgetting that people live on 10th. And people seem to be forgetting the difference between people and businesses: People can vote; businesses can't.

If we think the creme de la creme were outraged over any form of rail transit on Arbutus (overhead, on ground, or underground), they will be apoplectic if the UBC line is built west of Arbutus using any other method other than TBM. Even if TBM is more expensive and takes longer to build.

They have the money, political connections and ingrained NIMBYism to block construction for decades if it isn't built using TBM.

[officedweller]

Remember that the biggest stink about Cambie Street's cut & cover came from the businesses.

The rest of the street - for a much longer distance - is and was residential, with houses fronting the cut and cover excavations.

The reason it wasn't as severe an impact on residences versus the businesses?

Residences still had access via the rear laneways (and people may be away at work during the day).

Business had access via the rear laneway for employees and goods, but relied more heavily on customer access from the front.

[s211]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

If we think the creme de la creme ....

Playing the class card is always classy.

I know a few people that live along 10th that don't fit in your narrow view of things. Musicians, for a start.

[Sheba]

Don't quote me on this, but I read somewhere that Vancouver is going to pay the difference to have it underground. I could see them doing TBM for the route with cut and cover for the stations (which means they could use those for emptying rubble and open the line a few stations at a time - although it's unlikely they will).

I wouldn't be surprised to see the province decide it needs to continue past Arbutus during construction. I presume they're going to continue from 10th along University Blvd, so they could stop at Blanca right by the loop there, and wait until they get money from UBC and the Musqueam to continue.

[officedweller]

Up the hill to 10th & Sasamat then Blanca would seem to make sense,
unless they do end up boring under Broadway itself and someone wants to take it past the south side of the Jericho Lands on the way to UBC,
(station @ 8th & Discovery?) in which case they would continue under Broadway/8th to Blanca, then jog south to University Blvd at Blanca.
(but you would miss the commercial area at 10th & Sasamat).


http://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?q=...UGFuZWxUYXNrJTI0JTI0MSUyMiUzQW51bGwlN0Q=

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Up the hill to 10th & Sasamat then Blanca would seem to make sense,
unless they do end up boring under Broadway itself and someone wants to take it past the south side of the Jericho Lands on the way to UBC,
(station @ 8th & Discovery?) in which case they would continue under Broadway/8th to Blanca, then jog south to University Blvd at Blanca.
(but you would miss the commercial area at 10th & Sasamat).

I would like to see an alignment with stations spaced along the following lines. I think that there is merit to bringing the line up to 10th avenue with a station adjacent to the Safeway site on West 10th; that's the best bet for any further large-scale redevelopment in that area.

[trofirhen]

Looks like the most logical option to me.

[GlassCity]

I'd like the alignment and stations to be the same as the 99 B-Line right now. I'm not a fan of diverting to spur development, like VCC-Clark Station for example. I tend to prefer fewer stations as well.

[Sheba]

I mapped the 99 from Cambie out to Sassamat and most of the stops are roughly 1.1k apart. How would you do it with fewer stops - where would you put them? Btw I'm a fan of fewer stations, preferably about 1.5 -2k apart.

[logan5]

i'll hazard a guess and say there will eventually be 12 000 to 16 000 people (probly closer to 16 000) living in the jericho lands. a station right there would make a lot of sense.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by logan5

i'll hazard a guess and say there will eventually be 12 000 to 16 000 people (probly closer to 16 000) living in the jericho lands. a station right there would make a lot of sense.

Not only that, but it would be a way to get to within walking distance of Jericho Beach without taking a bus down 4th. That in itself would make shifting the station worth it. It would still be within walking distance of the businesses on that part of 10th as well. Jericho Beach is just such a popular park and destination, for both locals and tourists.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I mapped the 99 from Cambie out to Sassamat and most of the stops are roughly 1.1k apart. How would you do it with fewer stops - where would you put them? Btw I'm a fan of fewer stations, preferably about 1.5 -2k apart.

No I'm saying the spacing they have right now is perfect. In other words, I'd rather not have a station at the Jericho lands. My own spacing preference is 800-1600 metres, depending on whether there are any trip generators nearby or not.

[twoNeurons]

Density won't be an issue. The problem is... when people think density they only think Condo Tower. But if that whole corridor had max 5 story buildings along it, the density would increase by a HUGE amount. Add similar density along North South Corridors near stations from 4th to 16th and you've got more than enough density to support any station you throw at it.

Stations SHOULD be cut n' cover. If you can get stations near the surface on 10th, you have the opportunity to build ramps with no stairs from close to Broadway to the underground platform. That would be a great boon for accessibility and make stations less complex, requiring fewer elevators and escalators.

[KPELLY]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Not only that, but it would be a way to get to within walking distance of Jericho Beach without taking a bus down 4th. That in itself would make shifting the station worth it. It would still be within walking distance of the businesses on that part of 10th as well. Jericho Beach is just such a popular park and destination, for both locals and tourists.

Yeah, I am normally not a fan of having station spacing of less than 1 km, but in this case I would say its worth it, especially if it can be leveraged to get the line extended to UBC.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

I would like to see an alignment with stations spaced along the following lines. I think that there is merit to bringing the line up to 10th avenue with a station adjacent to the Safeway site on West 10th; that's the best bet for any further large-scale redevelopment in that area.

If people can't walk an extra two blocks from the beach or from the new Jericho development to the Sasamat & 10th Ave station at Safeway, what does that say about them?

Good luck telling the Hoi Polloi on 8th, 9th and 10th Aves that you're drilling tunnels under their houses to get back to the station beside the Safeway. Do you think they'll remember the Evergreen Line tunnel sinkholes?

Its easier to just not build this extra station, stay under 10th ave and use new Community Shuttles to connect these sites to the Sasamat and Alma stations

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

If people can't walk an extra two blocks from the beach or from the new Jericho development to the Sasamat & 10th Ave station at Safeway, what does that say about them?

Good luck telling the Hoi Polloi on 8th, 9th and 10th Aves that you're drilling tunnels under their houses to get back to the station beside the Safeway. Do you think they'll remember the Evergreen Line tunnel sinkholes?

Its easier to just not build this extra station, stay under 10th ave and use new Community Shuttles to connect these sites to the Sasamat and Alma stations

I think you are off the mark on all counts:

There is a significant grade change between 10th avenue and the Jericho Lands, so walking a few blocks is significant.

The redevelopment of the Jericho Lands is a redevelopment project of comparable scale to the Arbutus Lands or, arguably, a Southeast False Creek and it would be insanity to forfeit a SkyTrain station when the opportunity to build one is present.

A deep bored tunnel can easily proceed beneath houses and the take away lesson of the Evergreen Line is to do twin bored tunnels as opposed to one giant tunnel. Not only does one large tunnel require far more more material to be excavated and disposed of, but it is more susceptible to soil irregularities because of its larger cross section. With that said, to the best of my knowledge the soil conditions of the Point Grey area are pretty different than those in Port Moody.

Bottom line in my eyes: redevelopment of the Jericho Lands will be better served by the presence of a SkyTrain station; there is an opportunity to have development at Jericho Lands pay for some or all of the cost of the station; and allaying concerns about traffic originating from the redevelopment by incorporating a SkyTrain station will further justify the upzoning of the Jericho Lands. Finally, the Jericho Lands are now co-owned by Canada Lands Company and three First Nations nations, so there is every likelihood that these parties will seek to maximize the site capacity and the presence of SkyTrain will help make that possible.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Bottom line in my eyes: redevelopment of the Jericho Lands will be better served by the presence of a SkyTrain station; there is an opportunity to have development at Jericho Lands pay for some or all of the cost of the station; and allaying concerns about traffic originating from the redevelopment by incorporating a SkyTrain station will further justify the upzoning of the Jericho Lands. Finally, the Jericho Lands are now co-owned by Canada Lands Company and three First Nations nations, so there is every likelihood that these parties will seek to maximize the site capacity and the presence of SkyTrain will help make that possible.

Agree 100%