Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by makr3trkr

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-co...bers-trees-to-make-way-for-lrt-1.3089323

Surrey to cut down hundreds of Green Timbers trees to make way for LRT
By Jesse Johnston, CBC News Posted: May 27, 2015 10:28 AM PT

"I compare it to Stanley Park in Vancouver, Central Park in New York and Central Park in Burnaby. You couldn't convince any of these large cities to give up their parks, so why should we give up our park?"

Foulkes said he isn't opposed to an LRT line on Fraser Highway, but he doesn't understand why the city needs to add an additional two lanes of traffic.

"If you create rapid transit, people can park their cars and use it," Foulkes said. "You don't need four lanes anymore."

These people are ridiculous. You cannot compare Green Timbers to Central Park or Stanley Park. Fraser Highway is a vital corridor that directly connects Central Surrey to Fleetwood. This roadway needs to be expanded and this has been a need for decades.

Furthermore, there is a net gain of trees considering Surrey was going to create a new diversion that would have connected 148th St and 84th Ave (which would have been expanded). Most trees that are being cut down are deciduous trees.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

These people are ridiculous. You cannot compare Green Timbers to Central Park or Stanley Park. Fraser Highway is a vital corridor that directly connects Central Surrey to Fleetwood.

...and this is not true of the causeway in Stanley Park? Do you not remember the outcry over plans to replace or enhance the Lion's Gate Bridge and the effect it would have on the causeway?

I'm generally on the side of favouring the road improvement over preserving what I see as a relatively few trees (especially considering the number of trees felled elsewhere each year for greenfield development). But I think there are some very strong parallels between Green Timbers and Stanley Park in terms of the tradeoff between preservation and road improvements.

[AForce]

That stretch of Fraser Hwy needs to be widened regardless of LRT

[xd_1771]

In case anyone was paying attention to the specifics,
The city wants to do a massive, 40m right-of-way
with two lanes of general traffic and bike lanes, a separate multi-use path, two segregated LRT lanes, and a median in between.

Over 50% wider than the 26m required for 4 lanes, bike lanes/path, and a SkyTrain guideway.

[officedweller]

I could see a couple of nice pedestrian/bike overpasses, like over the Stanley Park Causeway and like Surrey has over Hwy 1 and Hwy 99...

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

...and this is not true of the causeway in Stanley Park? Do you not remember the outcry over plans to replace or enhance the Lion's Gate Bridge and the effect it would have on the causeway?

I'm generally on the side of favouring the road improvement over preserving what I see as a relatively few trees (especially considering the number of trees felled elsewhere each year for greenfield development). But I think there are some very strong parallels between Green Timbers and Stanley Park in terms of the tradeoff between preservation and road improvements.

Yeah and the opponents also rejected an upgraded causeway that would have included nature crossings (culverts). W. Georgia and the Causeway are clogged with idling traffic 7 days a week. Buses get stuck in traffic due to the lack of queue jumpers in Stanley Park.

Vancouver/North Van are screwed. Let's not lock ourselves into traffic hell to save a few trees. We should be focusing on preserving what I would deem significant trees within or around the town centers.

Bottom line is that the road needs to be expanded to a minimum of 30m. Though I still feel like the bike lanes on the 40m ROW are redundant (also fairly dangerous due to limited visibility).

@xd_1771, Engineers I have talked to said you'd still need a 35-40m ROW (not fully paved through) for Skytrain in Green Timbers. Basically, a clearing to limit the number of branches and debris that could potentially get on the guideway.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Engineers I have talked to said you'd still need a 35-40m ROW (not fully paved through) for Skytrain in Green Timbers. Basically, a clearing to limit the number of branches and debris that could potentially get on the guideway.

I'm not sure I buy that given how close the trees are to the Expo line guideway in the section just inbound of Broadway. But maybe mature coniferous trees are a different matter?

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

@xd_1771, Engineers I have talked to said you'd still need a 35-40m ROW (not fully paved through) for Skytrain in Green Timbers. Basically, a clearing to limit the number of branches and debris that could potentially get on the guideway.

The Expo Line guideway around Nanaimo both to the east and west doesn't seem to have a problem with trees beside/around it. I would furthermore urge them to have a look at parts of the Evergreen Line.

The 26m I quote comes right from the Surrey Rapid Transit study.

But anyway, since the "40m" right of way applies to basically just the road, I guess that would mean an even bigger "clearing" is effectively required for the current plan as well.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

In case anyone was paying attention to the specifics,
The city wants to do a massive, 40m right-of-way
with two lanes of general traffic and bike lanes, a separate multi-use path, two segregated LRT lanes, and a median in between.

Over 50% wider than the 26m required for 4 lanes, bike lanes/path, and a SkyTrain guideway.

With the way they actually want to move the road to preserve certain trees, if they ran the Skytrain in a straight line out of King George, it would no longer be over the median, but over the walking/biking path. I think it would be great to have the Guideway act as a shelter over the path (like No 3 Road). You could even add an overhang to it, make it look nice, and give lots of shelter.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

With the way they actually want to move the road to preserve certain trees, if they ran the Skytrain in a straight line out of King George, it would no longer be over the median, but over the walking/biking path. I think it would be great to have the Guideway act as a shelter over the path (like No 3 Road). You could even add an overhang to it, make it look nice, and give lots of shelter.

That would be awesome. Lol, that's how I actually imagined the BC parkway given online descriptions, until I actually started riding a bike. Can't wait for real bike connection to Langley.

[BCPhil]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

That would be awesome. Lol, that's how I actually imagined the BC parkway given online descriptions, until I actually started riding a bike. Can't wait for real bike connection to Langley.

I think if the region is serious about getting people to ride bikes, they have to make it more comfortable the other 9 months of the year. Even just a brief respite from the rain would make a difference. Sure, some people might consider it ugly, but if a bikeway with an awning gets more people to ride, and the only trade off is aesthetics, is it really a bad idea?

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

I think if the region is serious about getting people to ride bikes, they have to make it more comfortable the other 9 months of the year. Even just a brief respite from the rain would make a difference. Sure, some people might consider it ugly, but if a bikeway with an awning gets more people to ride, and the only trade off is aesthetics, is it really a bad idea?

Covering that entire route with an awning would cost a lot of money. I'd much rather see that money used to expand the bike network, not enhance the existing one.

[officedweller]

A side of road alignment for an elevated ;line also more easily allows construction of future stations.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by BCPhil

With the way they actually want to move the road to preserve certain trees, if they ran the Skytrain in a straight line out of King George, it would no longer be over the median, but over the walking/biking path. I think it would be great to have the Guideway act as a shelter over the path (like No 3 Road). You could even add an overhang to it, make it look nice, and give lots of shelter.

I actually saw you commented that on the CBC article, so I was mulling the idea just earlier. Decided to create a few diagrams on Streetmix to see how things would work out. With the SkyTrain guideway built between the road and a multi-use pathway, it would narrow the R.O.W. even further.

The current planned right-of-way with an LRT is 40m, although part of this is allocated to some extra-wide-looking drainage ditches (I find this strange since 96th Ave going through Green Timbers doesn't even require these external ditches, but there is drainage under the roadway - I get the feeling that Surrey is just trying to make full use of that referenda-decided 40m without really being innovative)


A median elevated SkyTrain as specified in the Surrey Rapid Transit Study would fit within 27m, the max width endorsed by GTUFAC in 2008:


Further optimized, the guideway acts as a natural barrier between the multi-use path and the road:

[Sheba]

Someone should show this to Surrey city council...

Say it ain’t so — Metro Line LRT opening postponed again

The latest deadline for opening the Metro Line LRT has passed and the city now won’t say when the route will go into operation.

...

The 3.3-kilometre route was supposed to start carrying passengers in April 2014.

The opening day has been pushed back repeatedly because of problems integrating the signalling system on the existing line with new Thales equipment.

McElheran won’t say when the line will begin service.”

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Metro+Line+opening+postponed+again/11099820/story.html

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

These people are ridiculous. You cannot compare Green Timbers to Central Park or Stanley Park. Fraser Highway is a vital corridor that directly connects Central Surrey to Fleetwood. This roadway needs to be expanded and this has been a need for decades.

You can compare them in that the decision to choose a few new-growth trees over hundreds of thousands of people in the middle of Stanley Park (i.e. the area only used by homeless people) was absurd too.

Many would argue that Lions Gate/Stanley Park causeway is much more important than Fraser Hwy, but both should be widened.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Pinion

You can compare them in that the decision to choose a few new-growth trees over hundreds of thousands of people in the middle of Stanley Park (i.e. the area only used by homeless people) was absurd too.

Describing Stanley Park that way is a bit of hyperbole, to put it mildly.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

I actually saw you commented that on the CBC article, so I was mulling the idea just earlier. Decided to create a few diagrams on Streetmix to see how things would work out. With the SkyTrain guideway built between the road and a multi-use pathway, it would narrow the R.O.W. even further.

It's all your fault I wasted a bunch of time playing on that site!

How did you get an elevated rail line? All I could find was on-ground transit and the option to raise the transit shelter.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by Sheba

It's all your fault I wasted a bunch of time playing on that site!

How did you get an elevated rail line? All I could find was on-ground transit and the option to raise the transit shelter.

Yeah, I discovered that site in its earlier days. Note that I had to photoshop in the SkyTrain guideway, which I mostly took from another TransLink document except the Mark III front which was taken from something else and redesigned from scratch into the TL colours.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Describing Stanley Park that way is a bit of hyperbole, to put it mildly.

I was talking about the causeway forest area in the middle, not the part that people enjoy. Take 20 feet of trees off either side of the road and it would do a world of good. No reasonable person should care, you can't even walk there due to heavy brush.

Sorry for the morbid photo but this is the kind of brush we're talking about. Even tree huggers don't really care about that


averagejoecyclist.com

Would have saved that lady's life if it was done earlier.