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  #6401  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2015, 8:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatman View Post
Would this new proposal include that silliness of going around that little island bordered by Simpson Avenue?
It will go straight up Sugarmont and not around to Simpson Ave.
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  #6402  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2015, 9:48 PM
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Not going to happen but I always thought using the old RR ROW through the old granite warehouse would be a better way tot get to to 2100 south.

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  #6403  
Old Posted Jun 1, 2015, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stenar View Post
It will go straight up Sugarmont and not around to Simpson Ave.
Good news.

And while it may never happen, I like Bankrom's alignment as well. Combine his idea with this one:

...and that would be the most ideal route of all.
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  #6404  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2015, 3:11 PM
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All the documentation that I have seen have it running down Sugarmont and Simpson, creating the island described below. There are maps included in the submitted application. Here's a link to the City Council transmittal for the TIGER grant: http://slcdocs.com/council/agendas/2015agendas/June/June2/060215A5F1.pdf

The proposal includes other transportation elements in the neighborhood. The transmittal states this:

It is likely that the extension will be bundled with a variety of other transportation projects listed last
year, including:
 Reducing traffic lanes along a four-tenths-mile stretch of Highland Drive from four lanes to
three.
 Creating 1,000 linear feet of a protected bikeway along the west side of McClelland Street
between Sugarmont Drive and 2100 South Street.
 Striping and making improvements to one mile of bicycle lanes.
 Installing “Hawk” pedestrian signals, one at Highland Drive and Sugarmont Drive, and
replacing a pedestrian flashing light at 2100 South and McClelland streets.
 Creating two mid-block crossings one on Wilmington Avenue and one at the intersection of
McClelland Street and Elm Avenue (2160 South).
Page | 3
 Improving pedestrian paths in Fairmont Park and creating gateway features leading into the
Sugar House Business District.
 Installing safety lighting along pedestrian paths in Hidden Hollow and planting plants along
the stream there to mitigate water runoff from streets.
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  #6405  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2015, 8:42 PM
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Ugh. That extra curve down to Simpson is still in the plans.

I really don't get this. I mean, yes, that is the way the street is configured, and yes it is a streetcar, but that doesn't mean that a rail system needs to be designed based on the current and very easily re-configurable existing street design. That's just lazy planning!
I'm already unconvinced that taking two legs of a triangle to reach a destination (by going up to highland to reach the plaza) is the best route, and by adding another two-legs-of-a-triangle in by wrapping down to Simpson just makes this worse. It's like a committee got together and discussed the streetcar like this:
'We're getting only 1/3 the projected ridership. What's wrong?'
'People complain it's slow and infrequent.'
'I know just what to do-let's make it longer! Let's thrown in some extra and unnecessary sharp turns, make the route extra long by going south before turning north, and then place it in mixed traffic with no transit priority!'
'Sounds like a real winner to me!'

Look, this issue can be fixed. If it has to go to Highland Drive and stop at the east end of the plaza, it can be made to work. This isn't impossible.
First, the map seems to show that the track will 'pull over' to the side of the plaza, essentially making the plaza the platform for the End Of Line stop. That's great, I really like that feature. So why not have that one single track be 'pulled over' to the side the whole time? Why place it in traffic at all? Why not simply tuck a single bi-directional track(because it is at the end of the line, it does not need to be double-tracked here) between the sidewalk and the road lanes for the 900 feet between 21 south and Sugarmont Drive, and have the single track line use the existing ROW that UTA already owns and still has old D&RGW tracks on the ground that runs parallel to Sugarmont Drive?

Like this:


So the double-track portion ends at the Fairmont Stop. This way if an eastbound car is waiting for westbound streetcar, at least it is waiting at the station. And besides, this alignment is only 1500-1600 feet long. Depending on how long the station dwell is and how long it takes to switch ends, it should never take more than 5 minutes between when a streetcar leaves Fairmont headed east and when it returns going west. I think a 5 minute frequency is perfectly reasonable for a streetcar system. Along Sugarmont and Highland Drives, the single-track streetcar line uses either existing UTA right-of-way or space formerly used by vehicles when Highland is reduced from 4 lanes to 3 (per planning document UTPlanner attached). It would look like this streetcar line in Tampa, FL:

This way the streetcar stays out of traffic and does not have to wait at any intersection going in either direction. No left turns in traffic on Simpson Avenue. No delays. No angry motorists. No long detours south before turning north. Only one curve.
What is wrong with this plan?
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  #6406  
Old Posted Jun 2, 2015, 11:47 PM
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The City Council meeting today about the S Line extension was intense. I'll have a post up tomorrow. GREENbike has again expanded adding 5 new stations.
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  #6407  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 3:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asies1981 View Post
The City Council meeting today about the S Line extension was intense. I'll have a post up tomorrow. GREENbike has again expanded adding 5 new stations.
Still no trolley square station :-(
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  #6408  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 3:48 AM
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Originally Posted by asies1981 View Post
The City Council meeting today about the S Line extension was intense. I'll have a post up tomorrow. GREENbike has again expanded adding 5 new stations.
What was their decision?
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  #6409  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 4:07 AM
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Quote:
In close vote, SLC pledges $5.6M to extend Sugar House Streetcar

The Salt Lake City Council swallowed hard Tuesday and voted to fund a match for UTA's grant application to extend the Sugar House Streetcar line.

UTA put up no money in the bid for a $27 million federal TIGER grant. Salt Lake City, by contrast, has pledged $5.6 million in matching funds. Salt Lake County has pledged $6.5 million.

The approval came in a split 4-3 vote. Council members Luke Garrott, Charlie Luke and Lisa Adams voted against the match. Council members James Rogers, Kyle LaMalfa, Stan Penfold and Erin Mendenhall voted in favor.

The resolution was passed after LaMalfa added an amendment that said no general fund money would be used beyond the $2.5 million the council set aside last year. In addition, the amendment holds that the remaining $3.1 million could be raised through a special taxing district in Sugar House. Funding also could come from Class C road appropriations, and potential revenue from a proposed local option sales tax, according to the amended resolution.

The council heard from several members of the Sugar House community. Many said construction of the new line would add to the already congested streets, and that the notion that it would be built before the completion of a transit master plan doesn't make sense.

"It will become an albatross," said Lori Leighton of the Boxing Is For Girls athletic center on 1100 East. "I want something that works for everyone."

Kimi Eklund, who recently opened Kimi's Chop & Oyster House on Highland Drive, said she feared construction would negatively impact her young business.

"I'm in the growth phase. This wouldn't be good for businesses," she said. "I have 36 employees and I wouldn't want them to lose their jobs."

In a work session before the vote, several council members questioned how the project is a "partnership" between Salt Lake City and UTA when the transit agency was unwilling to share the cost.

"My concern is that there isn't any funding coming from UTA," said Councilman James Rogers. "Being a stakeholder is a big part of the game."

Nonetheless, James voted in favor because "the project has to be completed."

If funded, the grant would extend the so-called S Line from its terminus at McClelland Street (1040 E. 2230 South) east to Highland Drive and then north to 2100 South.

The city should know by fall whether UTA was awarded the grant. Under a best-case scenario, said Robin Hutcheson, director of transportation for Salt Lake City, the extension would be completed by the end of 2017 or early 2018.

Councilwoman Erin Mendenhall also questioned UTA's commitment.

"Going forward, I have to see more of a financial partnership [with UTA]," she said. "They're coming to us and saying, "You have to foot the bill.'"

In the end, Mendenhall supported the measure because, she said, the line had to be brought into the heart of Sugar House. "I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face."

But Council Chairman Luke Garrott said he was concerned that the city wouldn't own the rail itself under the present application by UTA.

"Why are we giving UTA the rails when they made no [financial investment]?" he asked Hutcheson.
http://www.sltrib.com/news/2582066-155/in-close-vote-slc-pledges-56m
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  #6410  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 3:28 PM
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No question that adding in the island to the south is a bad decision and it's further not a question that if one were to exit the train at the current Sugarmont Station they could walk to the monument plaza faster than the train could get to the same plaza if it has to go south before heading north.

Will this upgrade also install the double tracking that the system desperately needs to make it useful?
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  #6411  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 5:10 PM
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I am glad they voted for it. I hope it gets the TIGER grant too. It needs to be double tracked more than anything (that will be included in any case, I assume). A terrible connection to 11th and 21st would almost negate any benefit of double tracking (walking from Fairmont would be faster than an awful left turn at Simpson Ave), so I also hope that now that this project has been made 'legitimate' by this vote that a serious second-look is taken at how they want to reach the plaza.
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  #6412  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2015, 8:40 PM
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The plan is to double track the existing line as well as from the extension forward. SLC wants to get it down to 15 minute frequencies or better. The current track configuration limits it to 20 minute frequency.

What gets me is the amount of people that are going crazy on the cost, $27 Million. What they may not realize is that more than 1/3 of the cost is going to the trails, Hawk signals and the like.

Only roughly $17 Million is for the tracks and that includes the extension and the double tracking on the existing line (Roughly between 1.5 and 2 miles of track).

I do hope that the grant is given this time and I also hope that the quick jog south is for a possible planned future extension either East or South or even both maybe.

They haven't stated much about ridership but the current line is inching closer to 2K daily. I think is is just over 1600 now. I think the August change day will have a big impact on ridership as the hours will match Trax hours 7 days a week. This might push ridership up to or over 2K daily.

The extension I think the extension may help get to 3000+ daily once it is complete and the other projects in the area are complete. The residential numbers, expanded retail options and the increased frequency will help to increase ridership.
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  #6413  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2015, 5:33 PM
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I had a thought.
Why is the S-Line limited to 20-minute frequencies? The schedule used show a longer travel time between the two end points, but now it's been cut down to 10 minutes of travel and 10 minutes of sitting at the end point. Why not just let the car sit for 5 minutes at the end of the line instead, and make 15 minute frequencies? Or, let the car sit for 3 minutes and do 12 minute frequencies?
I mean, the second track is ideal, but it isn't really necessary in order to support higher frequencies.
This is to say that if SLC doesn't get the TIGER grant, it isn't the end of the world. Just increase the frequency, build a ridership, and wait for the Transportation Master Plan so that we aren't building haphazardly one blind step after another.

(PS - I really do like the S-Line greenway. I ride my bike up/down it every day on my way to work. It is a great addition to the neighborhood, and the streetcar fits in well. It's only a matter of time before it becomes successful. I'm only concerned with extending it to places where the costs would be higher than the benefits. Which is to say, I really think going to the plaza is far enough. Beyond that, transit dollars would be better spent on BRT.)
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  #6414  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2015, 6:12 PM
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  #6415  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2015, 6:39 PM
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Wasatch Wasteland Wasatch Wasteland is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hatman View Post
I had a thought.
Why is the S-Line limited to 20-minute frequencies? The schedule used show a longer travel time between the two end points, but now it's been cut down to 10 minutes of travel and 10 minutes of sitting at the end point. Why not just let the car sit for 5 minutes at the end of the line instead, and make 15 minute frequencies? Or, let the car sit for 3 minutes and do 12 minute frequencies?
I mean, the second track is ideal, but it isn't really necessary in order to support higher frequencies.
This is to say that if SLC doesn't get the TIGER grant, it isn't the end of the world. Just increase the frequency, build a ridership, and wait for the Transportation Master Plan so that we aren't building haphazardly one blind step after another.
At this point, it is ridership. There is simply no need to run the "streetcars" that often. I ride the S-line every Tuesday and Saturday. On Tuesdays during rush hours, the cars are less than half full, and on Saturdays, they are all but empty.
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  #6416  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 4:32 PM
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Not sure if anyone else noticed it but in the documents presented to the SLC Council it stated that SLC would receive approximately $4.3 or $4.5 Million a year from the proposed transit tax increase. That would be off of the .10% to the City out of the .25% total.

This would put SLC at roughly $11 Million if it got to control the whole increase.

This did get me to thinking about what would SLC do if it was given the Prison from the Relocation commission and the Legislature. SLC would be able to impose a .5% sales tax for what ever purpose it wanted.

My thoughts on this would be that if the tax is enacted it should be implemented somewhat similar to the following:

.25% (1/2 of the increase should go to the General Fund to be used for anything that the city needs (police, firefighters, beautification, Corporate Relocation/Expansion Assistance, etc.)) $11+ Million yearly.

.25% (the other 1/2 of the increase) should go straight to transit. Running improved transit within the City boundaries. A Branded bus so to say. $11+ Million yearly.

This would be on top of the .10% increase from the transit tax increase. It would give SLC over $15 Million a year for transit.

This in total would pay for City branded buses and routes ($7-10 Million a year 5 routes dedicated within the SLC boarders that would operate on 15 Minute schedules or faster on top of UTA offerings) The lines could run 20 hours daily each or 7-8 lines at 18 hours. Fares could be low ($0.25 to $1.00). If Fares were free, the $7-10 Million would cover all. If fares were low as stated previously, additional routes could be run. Roughly 1 additional route for every 3,000 daily riders at $0.25.

Streetcars (2nd South, 4/5th West-9th South and S-Line expansion (bonded over time)). This dedicated funding would be for construction and operation, once bonds are paid for these funds could be redirected for expansion. Also, expansion or bond repayments could be increased via some of the original .25% that was allocated to the General Fund.

Lastly pay extra to run the Black Line 24/7 ($4 Million from UTA for 18 hours = $1.33 Million from SLC to run the line an additional 6 hours daily). This would provide coverage of the Airport, most downtown hotels (within a block or so) and the University 24/7.

This is how I would recommend that the funds be directly and used as it would benefit SLC residents directly without all the costs being born by SLC residents themselves.

Thoughts?
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  #6417  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 8:05 PM
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Wasatch Wasteland Wasatch Wasteland is offline
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Genius. Can you submit that to someone important?
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  #6418  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2015, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Wasatch Wasteland View Post
Genius. Can you submit that to someone important?
I wish.

I use the general contact emails but I figure they are always just filtered out. If someone knows anyone directly, they can forward it to them or have them come and read it.

Either way, I would love for it to get to someone that makes decisions on things.
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  #6419  
Old Posted Jun 10, 2015, 2:55 PM
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More transit funding would be a nice consolation for having the prison in our city. I would take that deal.
I saw this chart this morning:

... which shows how much each ride on a variety of transit systems is subsidized. Looks like UTA (named just 'Utah' on the chart for some reason) subsidizes each ride between $1 and $2 on average. It's not great, but it's still better than most transit systems on the chart. I wonder how much the subsidy per trip will increase with added bus service? I mean, hopefully more service attracts more riders and lowers the per-trip subsidy, but until more riders come, more service means a larger operating budget, which means a higher subsidy per rider.
And before car people complain, I think it would be hard to argue that a car trip isn't subsidized by an equal or greater amount per trip.
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  #6420  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2015, 5:50 PM
billbillbillbill billbillbillbill is offline
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Let the critique begin!



http://www.rideuta.com/news/2015/06/new-map/

Quote:
Our rail map got a makeover! This updated map has been simplified to help riders quickly find key points and plan routes. The map is already being installed at many stations and will be available online within the next few days. Read on to learn more about our new rail map.
Quote:
Station Addresses

Station addresses have been removed to reduce visual clutter. Riders who need that information can see TRAX station addresses here and FrontRunner station address here. The information will also be available on our printed schedules.

Lines

Rail lines on the new map are straight, with equally-spaced stations. Curves are represented by 90 or 45-degree angles. This approach to map-making is used around the world (the Paris Metro and London Tube maps are two examples) because it is visually pleasing and allows the rider to quickly find their origin and destination.

Other Changes

The free fare zone is now noted by a blue box around stations included within the zone. Stations where riders can transfer from one line to another are noted with a white oval. The availability of day parking and multi-day parking at stations is indicated with purple and green circles. Other details, such as information about transfers, were removed in the interest of simplicity.
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