Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Like there was supposed to be a "BC Tel" station at one point as well, but never happened. Likewise Burnaby lost out on a skytrain station on the evergreen line because they ho-hummed about paying for roughing in that space. (See a pattern of Burnaby saying No?)

I know you hate Corrigan but...

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

Story I heard way back was Telus (BC Tel at the time) was asked to contribute to the Boundry station. They said no for financial reasons (It was the middle of a big economic down turn) and some say security reasons (non employees potentially having easier access to the building) The Sky Train folks decided then to build Patterson instead. 15 years later when Telus sold the building (which they now lease back) the value of the building would have been significatly higher with the station, which is a demonstration of how peoples attitudes to rapid transit have changed in the Village of Vancouver since Expo.

[MIPS]

Really? I did a quick check on google maps and from either Main or VCC station it's a 14 min walk to Terminal and Cottrell St (basically the driveway in). From either station you can take a bus that would cut your walking time to at least half that.

That seems about correct. Took me 15 minutes on foot.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Kisai

It would certainly be possible. It's just a lot more expensive because you would need to have a single-track segment bypassing the work until it's finished, which could be several months if ill planned. If there are no switches around that point, then most trains also have to be turned back before reaching that point and just shuttling past the construction on the other track.

Like there was supposed to be a "BC Tel" station at one point as well, but never happened. Likewise Burnaby lost out on a skytrain station on the evergreen line because they ho-hummed about paying for roughing in that space. (See a pattern of Burnaby saying No?)

So any "new" additions that weren't roughed in would require demolishing the concrete and rail segment (thus single-tracking for a few days,) but in a sense, they could also replace it over-night (look how quickly the evergreen line concrete segments were placed.)

If it's a relatively level section of track, couldn't they build a completely self-supporting structure for the station that "envelopes" the guideway while remaining structurally independent?

[red-paladin]

So,

I have spoken to someone at Translink about this very issue.

Hi *my real name*,

Sorry for the delay in responding to your email – I just received it as it was circulated rather widely given the involvement of different staff for the different lines…

Line by line, on the Canada Line:
· Capstan Way station came very close to being constructed but it was contingent on a substantial contribution from the developer of an adjacent property and the economic downtown destroyed the economics of the project so it is not currently proceeding but is likely to come back.

· YVR3 was planned to support an expanded airport terminal - if the Airport Authority proceeds with that expansion, the station would proceed as well. The Airport Authority’s strategic plan may have more detail on it.

· 33rd and 57th Avenue stations would only be built with a large developer contribution, should future land use plans support developments of the necessary scale. 33rd would be a particular challenge given the adjacency to Queen Elizabeth Park.

On the Expo Line, the geometry allowed for future stations at:
· Clark Drive

· Kingsway (E of Boundary Rd)


These could still be built if desired.

The section along Stewardson Way has excessive gradients (1.4% and greater, when SkyTrain stations need to be on a 0.5% grade or less) as well as very few tangent (straight) track sections of sufficient length.

On the Millennium Line, the geometry only allows for a future station at Woodlands – most of the line has excessive gradients and curvatures between the original stations. Where flat and straight sections exist, they are often too close to existing stations to be of consideration (e.g, approx 500 m E of Commercial-Broadway station).

Hope this assists, let me know if you have questions.

________________________________________________
Ian Fisher, Project Planner, Project Planning

[officedweller]

Thanks!
By "Clark Drive" I assume they mean just east of Clark Drive.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by officedweller

If it's a relatively level section of track, couldn't they build a completely self-supporting structure for the station that "envelopes" the guideway while remaining structurally independent?

While Lake City wasn't like this, it was similarly built around an already in-service Millennium Line before it was opened.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I know you hate Corrigan but...

I don't particularly hate him. I didn't vote for him. But saying No to Transit options AFTER BEING THE CHAIR OF BC TRANSIT, particularly since he's been mayor for the last 13 years seems like is just trying to be a stick in the mud till he retires, and he doesn't seem to use transit either *shrug*.

I'm fully aware of when the Expo line was built.

Dave Mercier (BVA, Social Credit)was Mayor from 1979 to 1981
Bill Lewarne (BVA 1981-1986, he's also mentioned here
The BCA(NDP affiliated) has been in power since 1987 with Bill Copeland.
Douglas P. Drummond was the Mayor from 1996 to 2002 before Corrigan. Corrigan was on the city council during that time.

All the existing Skytrain lines were built BEFORE Corrigan ever came into power.

The BCTel ("Boundary" station, at Kingsway) is mentioned every so often on SSP, so it's not like it's uncommon lore here. The only reason it's unlikely to be built now is that both Joyce and Patterson are close enough that it's a bit redundant considering the distance between Patterson, Metrotown and Royal Oak.

But who knows, maybe at some point in time the owners of the "Telus Building" will want to redevelop it into something larger and at that time the station might get revisited.

[WarrenC12]

33rd Ave would be great for the Children's and Women's hospital complex close by. Thousands of jobs and currently parking is a nightmare. But between the hospital and the park I don't see a lot of development options. There are already some 3-4 story buildings along Cambie but obviously they didn't contribute to this station or it would already be funded.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Kisai

The BCTel ("Boundary" station, at Kingsway) is mentioned every so often on SSP, so it's not like it's uncommon lore here. The only reason it's unlikely to be built now is that both Joyce and Patterson are close enough that it's a bit redundant considering the distance between Patterson, Metrotown and Royal Oak.

But who knows, maybe at some point in time the owners of the "Telus Building" will want to redevelop it into something larger and at that time the station might get revisited.

I believe at this point it might be too late to build the station given that there are track switches in that area.

[Spork]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I believe at this point it might be too late to build the station given that there are track switches in that area.

There aren't any switches.

This station will eventually built as the Joyce area grows further East. With Joyce being one of the busiest stations outside of downtown and one of the densest areas with LOTS of room to grow, it is only a matter of time that a new station by Telus is justified to relieve Joyce station or provide a more convenient station for nearby development.

I would bet this station will be built by 2035.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Spork

There aren't any switches.

This station will eventually built as the Joyce area grows further East. With Joyce being one of the busiest stations outside of downtown and one of the densest areas with LOTS of room to grow, it is only a matter of time that a new station by Telus is justified to relieve Joyce station or provide a more convenient station for nearby development.

I would bet this station will be built by 2035.

Don't forget there's the Wall Centre Central Park complex going in there too.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

33rd Ave would be great for the Children's and Women's hospital complex close by. Thousands of jobs and currently parking is a nightmare. But between the hospital and the park I don't see a lot of development options. There are already some 3-4 story buildings along Cambie but obviously they didn't contribute to this station or it would already be funded.

Aside from the major expansion of the hospital complex, there are the RCMP lands next to this future station. I assume there will be significant and dense redevelopment here, and that this is a big factor in whether the station is built.


From Vancouver Sun article

[st7860]

looks like there are switches between Joyce and Patterson

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d4/Vancouver_SkyTrain_track_diagram.svg

[MIPS]

Indeed there are. Pretty hard to miss too as they're a few hundred feet west of Boundary road, closer to Joyce.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by MIPS

Indeed there are. Pretty hard to miss too as they're a few hundred feet west of Boundary road, closer to Joyce.

The level area is right behind the Telus building on Burnaby's side. The Track switch is on Vancouver's side.

Like if they built it, it would likely be somewhere between Boundary Road and the existing Bottle Depot on Burnaby's side.

As for where "should" new North-South lines should go...

There's obviously some missing North-South line needed to go down Boundary or Willingdon. Using Willingdon, a Hastings-Brentwood-BCIT-Metrotown would make sense. Though a "Hastings Line" would likely need to exist first. The other option that would make sense would be for getting the Skytrain into North Vancouver via Boundary/Highway 1. Perhaps when the Ironworkers bridge gets replaced that might be a consideration.

Basically "Rapid Transit" needs to go to places that people need to go. Connecting the PNE/Playland grounds, UBC, SFU, BCIT, the other Casinos are places where people want to go. The Telus building is a single employer, so at the time (before all those condos/apartments were built by Concert near Joyce Station) it likely made no sense to build the stop at that time.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Kisai

...the other Casinos are places where people want to go.

Why do I find that depressing?

[MIPS]

This Month In History
June 1985

OMC completed. All stations now 80-95% completed. (Burrard and Granville are taking a little longer to finish)
Essential infrastructure is now operating and all power rails become live. For one weekend only, Stadium, Broadway and Royal Oak stations open for a public open house. Free rides are offered between stations. Because the VCC's are still not up yet the trains are all manually operated.


Screengrab courtesy of Yaletown Productions

Screengrab courtesy of Yaletown Productions

Screengrab courtesy of Yaletown Productions

Screengrab courtesy of Yaletown Productions

Screengrab courtesy of Yaletown Productions

Screengrab courtesy of Alan M.

Screengrab courtesy of Alan M

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Aside from the major expansion of the hospital complex, there are the RCMP lands next to this future station. I assume there will be significant and dense redevelopment here, and that this is a big factor in whether the station is built.

There is still RCMP presence in a forensic lab I believe, not sure when they are moving out.

The land is also 50/50 with a native band IIRC, so the sale and development process will be long and complicated no doubt.

[city-dweller]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Aside from the major expansion of the hospital complex, there are the RCMP lands next to this future station. I assume there will be significant and dense redevelopment here, and that this is a big factor in whether the station is built.

I was just going to reply the same. People are willing to walk up to 750m on average to rapid transit stations compared to the lesser amount for local service. [I didn't give a number for local service because it is debated in the literature. Source many people -> my thesis] If you consider all the land to the west of Cambie, there is a lot of potential.

[city-dweller]

Thanks for posting this. Amazing photos!

Is that a busloop on the left?

Originally Posted by MIPS

Screengrab courtesy of Alan M.