SkyCity Centre Winnipeg | 45F | 575 Ft | 175.26 M | Cancelled

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by esquire

I'd say it's a loss... enlarging the city's worst patch of surface parking is not a win in my books.

We'll both have to sit on opposite sides of the fence on this one, the St Regis has been a problem for as long as I can remember, although we do both feel that a parking lot for any long term will be a detriment to this location and area.

On a different note, it seems this whole proposal still has some twists and turns in the making..or maybe not...?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Cyro

We'll both have to sit on opposite sides of the fence on this one, the St Regis has been a problem for as long as I can remember, although we do both feel that a parking lot for any long term will be a detriment to this location and area.

On a different note, it seems this whole proposal still has some twists and turns in the making..or maybe not...?

The bar was a sore spot, I grant you that. But things have changed since CV closed it down. And even apart from that, the rooms are decent and it has typically drawn a respectable clientele.

One of the more surprising moments in my career was going there to meet with a wealthy client who was staying there... this guy could have easily bunked down in a suite at the Fairmont or the Fort Garry, but he liked the St. Regis because it suited his personality. Granted not all their guests are as wealthy as this guy was, but the point is it isn't some kind of hovel.

As to the plans for the site, I presume this means basically a parkade with some ground-level commercial? I can't imagine that Fortress would put any substantial commercial space in there that could steal the thunder from the SkyCity tower itself.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by rypinion

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/S...ntureVenture-to-developer-305216841.html

The Toronto developer behind the proposed 47-storey SkyCity Centre condo tower has acquired the neighbouring St. Regis Hotel property with the intention of building a 625-stall parking structure and commercial /retail complex on the site

There you go this proposal still has more twists left than a corkscrew? I guess it's not quite dead yet..?

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by esquire

One of the more surprising moments in my career was going there to meet with a wealthy client who was staying there... this guy could have easily bunked down in a suite at the Fairmont or the Fort Garry, but he liked the St. Regis because it suited his personality. Granted not all their guests are as wealthy as this guy was, but the point is it isn't some kind of hovel.

Yes, I remember you sharing this story somewhere on the forum a while back I believe?
Hovel? I didn't go to that extreme, your words, 911 and WPS calls to this location on a frequent basis to this day were more of my concern, regardless if you can't purchase alcohol on site any more. I've seen something else in the last year, although only anecdotal from my perspective..

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Yes, I remember you sharing this story somewhere on the forum a while back I believe?
Hovel? I didn't go to that extreme, your words, 911 and WPS calls to this location on a frequent basis to this day were more of my concern, regardless if you can't purchase alcohol on site any more. I've seen something else in the last year, although only anecdotal from my perspective..

Yeah, forgive my Grandpa Simpson-like repetition of stories, but that meeting definitely changed my impression of the place, that's for sure. But from what I've seen and heard, it was the bar that was the culprit around there in terms of creating an "unpleasant environment"... walking around there in the evening doesn't feel as menacing anymore.

I hope that Fortress doesn't demolish right away, but I'm kind of resigned to that happening...

[rkspec]

** EDIT: too late...repost

Looks like it went for 4 mil
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/S...ntureVenture-to-developer-305216841.html

The property’s current owner — CentreVenture Development Corporation — announced said today a numbered Manitoba company controlled by Fortress has purchased the building and an adjacent Smith Street parking lot for $4 million.

[TimeFadesAway]

Wow...this just keeps getting more interesting...I rate the gong show risk as 'high' on this one!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Wow...this just keeps getting more interesting...I rate the gong show risk as 'high' on this one!

Yeah... won't that be something if CV ends up with big losses on two hotels that ultimately get turned into surface parking? Talk about the cure being worse than the disease.

[Cyro]

Fellow posters on SSP, Think about this thread and proposal as one that gives and gives..whether it bears fruit or not, remember some asked the question in the past, why does this thread exist? With over 1,000 replies in it's 2 incarnations, one deleted, you have your answer....(the sales centre isn't even open) ?!?

Detailed analysis on the non-feasibility of the latest news to follow..wait for it..............

ps: I do the same thing when it comes to repetition esquire., the scary part is I know I'm doing it and I can't stop my self.. Yes I agree as well, a new lot for the foreseeable future is imminent.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah... won't that be something if CV ends up with big losses on two hotels that ultimately get turned into surface parking? Talk about the cure being worse than the disease.

I wonder if the sales agreement protects against that in a meaningful way. This is one example where public scrutiny would be welcome. After all this is supposed to be a more transparent era we are in...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Cyro

Fellow posters on SSP, Think about this thread and proposal as one that gives and gives..whether it bears fruit or not, remember some asked the question in the past, why does this thread exist? With over 1,000 replies in it's 2 incarnations, one deleted, you have your answer....(the sales centre isn't even open) ?!?

Well, considering that work on the sales centre is (apparently) still proceeding and the developer just shelled out $4 million to buy the St. Regis, this thing must still have some legs... at least enough to provide more discussion fodder around here.

[drew]

how much did CV purchase the St.Regis for?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

Some quick Googling reminds me that CV paid $5 million for it in 2012.

These guys are a downtown hotelier's best friend! The owners of places like the Garrick, the Winnipeg, the Woodbine and the McLaren must have CV on speed dial.

The Woodbine was in the process of being sold last I had heard.

And CV was carrying almost $7MM in debt on the St. Regis, so we can chalk this up as a loss if $4MM is indeed the purchase price.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

I wonder if the sales agreement protects against that in a meaningful way. This is one example where public scrutiny would be welcome. After all this is supposed to be a more transparent era we are in...

Fortress presumably bought it with the express intention of demolishing it to make way for SkyCity's parkade... I can't imagine Fortress signed on to jump through a bunch of hoops before they actually get to do that.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

Fortress presumably bought it with the express intention of demolishing it to make way for SkyCity's parkade... I can't imagine Fortress signed on to jump through a bunch of hoops before they actually get to do that.

Fortress won the RFP on this almost 2 years ago with a plan to demolish it for a parkade. This has been known for a long time. This is probably just the formal closing of the process. That this indicates any further progress is unlikely. 'Winning' any of these RFP processes generally binds you to close within a certain time frame. I don't doubt that was around the corner.

EDIT: Just reading through the article it appears the city is still holding the bag on the property. Essentially the land was transferred out of the holding company that controlled the St. Regis to the numbered company Fortress uses to keep land out of the hands of their investors. In exchange, the holding company controlling the St. Regis will have to take a write down on the purchase amount and associated fees from a couple years ago and move a $4MM note into the city's Urban Development bank to be serviced by Fortress. There's no word on the terms, but this is mostly a paper transaction. I'd love to see the actual mortgage agreement so we could at least scrutinize what appears on the surface to be a bit of smoke and mirrors.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Fortress won the RFP on this almost 2 years ago with a plan to demolish it for a parkade. This has been known for a long time. This is probably just the formal closing of the process. That this indicates any further progress is unlikely. 'Winning' any of these RFP processes generally binds you to close within a certain time frame. I don't doubt that was around the corner.

Perhaps a naive question but would the deal likely include penalties if they don't follow through on the project within a certain time frame?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Perhaps a naive question but would the deal likely include penalties if they don't follow through on the project within a certain time frame?

Read the edit from my last comment. I'm hopeful that something like that would be in there, but I don't doubt that the penalty was that they had to close and thus incur mortgage payments. I have no idea how this arrangement has worked given that it's been shrouded in secrecy, but if somebody were to give you two year of planning without having to actual own, that would be a huge benefit. The most harmful penalty one could impose at this point would be to make them take ownership without a plan.

Either way, penalties need to have teeth. So far we've seen how permissive and unwilling to actually enforce penalties our council has been. I don't see this ending any differently.

[Cyro]

Article being discussed..Prepare to have cookies enabled and a 30 day freep trial account activated to read..

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/local/S...ntureVenture-to-developer-305216841.html

I'll post article excerpts..

===============
St. Regis Hotel sold by CentureVenture to developer

By: Bartley Kives
Posted: 2:25 PM

The Toronto developer behind the proposed 47-storey SkyCity Centre condo tower has acquired the neighbouring St. Regis Hotel property with the intention of building a 625-stall parking structure and commercial /retail complex on the site.

The property’s current owner — CentreVenture Development Corporation — announced said today a numbered Manitoba company controlled by Fortress has purchased the building and an adjacent Smith Street parking lot for $4 million.
St. Regis Hotel

PHIL HOSSACK / FREE PRESS ARCHIVES

St. Regis Hotel

CentreVenture said a small surface parking lot fronting onto Garry Street, which it acquired as part of the original St. Regis deal, has also been sold to the company which owns nearby The Pint Public House and Sports Bar on Garry Street. The Venexo Corporation,Centre will pay $650,000 for the parking lot, the corporation added.

CentreVenture said the deal with Fortress is subject to a development agreement being reached and was facilitated by a short-term, first mortgage arranged through its Urban Development Bank.

"Today’s announcement is a step forward in developing a positive plan for the St. Regis properties and the block surrounding it," said CentreVenture president and CEO Angela Mathieson. "The Pint is already a great addition to the neighbourhood and Fortress’s proposal for the hotel site supports the exciting vision we see for the SHED."

CentreVenture bought the St. Regis in 2013 for a reported $5.4 million as part of a plan to reduce public intoxication in downtown Winnipeg and secure properties for redevelopment.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by esquire

Well, considering that work on the sales centre is (apparently) still proceeding and the developer just shelled out $4 million to buy the St. Regis, this thing must still have some legs... at least enough to provide more discussion fodder around here.

No change projected to a fall opening date.

[Tacheguy]

I wonder if the parkade project might have more legs than sky city, at least as a long term investment. If some of the other developments in the downtown go ahead then this project, on some scale at least, might have a pretty good revenue stream.