National Victims of Communism Memorial | Completed

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That poll is interesting. It shows the public is basically exactly offside with the Harper government when it comes to monuments in Ottawa.

I like the idea of "A memorial for historical injustices against Aboriginal people". It makes far more sense for Ottawa as it's far more relevant to our country than communism or the holocaust (while we have accepted refugees from communist countries, took in refugees from the Holocaust & helped liberate Bergen-Belsen, neither event is central to our history like the Aboriginal issue is).

I'd like for the communism & holocaust memorials to be downsized and moved to less prominent locations, and then build an Aboriginal monument in the vicinity of Pimisi station.

Change that one to "(A) memorial to honour the contributions of Aboriginal Peoples" and I'd be on board. I think we're pushing the threshold for victim monuments, even for a country that does liberal guilt so well.

[1overcosc]

I'd be fine with that. I just took 'injustices' from the poll.

[HomeInMyShoes]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Change that one to "(A) memorial to honour the contributions of Aboriginal Peoples" and I'd be on board. I think we're pushing the threshold for victim monuments, even for a country that does liberal guilt so well.

Agreed. We should celebrate accomplishments more.

[rocketphish]

Most Canadians oppose communism victims memorial: poll

Elizabeth Payne, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: May 25, 2015, Last Updated: May 25, 2015 9:14 AM EDT

A large majority of Canadians — even among Conservative supporters — think the Conservative government’s planned memorial to the victims of communism is a poor idea, a poll has found.

Across the country, just 23 per cent of Canadians said they would support the Memorial to Victims of Communism “in its current form after they were shown design plans for the monument, to be erected near the Supreme Court in Ottawa,” the EKOS polling firm reported in a poll commissioned by the website iPolitics.

Some 27 per cent said they somewhat opposed the memorial and 51 per cent said they strongly opposed it. In the National Capital Region, that opposition rises to 83 per cent of people polled — 63 per cent who strongly oppose it and 19 per cent who somewhat oppose it. Just four per cent of those polled — both Canada-wide and in the capital region — said they strongly support the memorial.

Voters who identified themselves as Conservatives were slightly more supportive of the memorial than voters who identified with other parties. But, still, the majority of Conservative voters polled by EKOS — 63 per cent — said they opposed it.

The poll also found that the majority of Canadians knew little or nothing about the monument. But when they were shown design plans and given details, they didn’t like what they saw. The majority of capital region residents were aware of the memorial, which has been dogged by controversy.

When asked to rank a list of new facilities “to showcase Canada’s National Capital Region,” respondents ranked a memorial to the victims of communism last out of five possibilities. A national Holocaust monument, which the federal government is also building, came in second last. A national library “on a grand scale” and a memorial for historical injustices against Aboriginal peoples were the top two picks of respondents.

Defence Minister Jason Kenney recently said the monument, which will get $3 million in taxpayer support, is “strongly supported by Canadian ethno-cultural communities representing some eight million Canadians” and deserves a high-profile location.

Its planned location on a 5,000 square metre site on Wellington Street southwest of the Supreme Court is a major point of contention with numerous groups that oppose it.

Rideau-Rockcliffe Coun. Tobi Nussbaum said he plans to introduce a motion at Ottawa Council to formally request the federal government move the memorial.

Its planned location is on land that has long been reserved for a new judicial building. Mayor Jim Watson has been vocal in his opposition to locating the victims of communism memorial on what is supposed to be part of a so-called judicial triad. The mayor has said he is unaware of any public consultation on what amounts to a significant change to the long-term vision for the capital, something the city supports.

The National Capital Commission’s advisory committee on planning and design has had concerns about both the location and design of the memorial. Other groups, including the Royal Architecture Institute of Canada, the Canadian Society of Landscape Architects and the Ontario Association of Architects, have also expressed concern that the proposed location for the memorial will violate the guiding principles of the government’s plan.

In March, Canadian Heritage said the groundbreaking for the $5.5-million memorial would take place this summer. The National Capital Commission has since said that its board of directors would likely not approve the design until as late as September. Construction could not begin before then, although preliminary site work could go ahead.

[email protected]

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/most-canadians-oppose-communism-victims-memorial-poll

[rocketphish]

Despite what Conservatives say, most people don't want the memorial to the VOC

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: May 26, 2015, Last Updated: May 26, 2015 1:19 PM EDT

One of the myths Conservatives like to perpetuate about the proposed Memorial to the Victims of Communism is about how popular the idea is, how the opposition against it is driven by Ottawa institutional types and doesn’t reflect the feelings of real people.

“There are millions of Canadians who want this memorial built,” Nepean-Carleton MP Pierre Poilievre told the Citizen in an interview late last month.

“Their voices are under-reported,” continued the senior cabinet minister responsible for the national capital region. “That is a perfect example of the disconnect between institutional Ottawa and real Ottawa. I believe that the thousands of people in the city who have their family origins in countries formerly oppressed by communism want this monument.”

No doubt there are people who believe not just in the idea of this memorial, but the way it’s designed, and the proposed site next to the Supreme Court on land that for decades has been reserved for a new federal court building.

But how (I asked Poilievre at the time of the interview) could he know that millions of Canadians support the monument? He said that no one ever told him that “downtown Ottawa needs another government building in which to house lawyers” — that’s Poilievre’s way of describing a federal court — to which I countered that comments directed my way on the subject were overwhelmingly against the plans as they currently stood.

If only there were a way to decide this he-said-she-said argument, some sort of apparatus to gauge the public opinion on something of such lasting importance on the future of planning for heart of our capital.

Enter Frank Graves of EKOS Research.

His firm, together with iPolitics.ca, conducted a randomized online poll of more than 2,100 people across the country earlier this month. Respondents were asked whether they’d heard of the Memorial for the Victims of Communism (most hadn’t, at least outside of the national capital region) and were then shown four artists’ renderings of the plans.

When they were asked, “All things considered, to what extent do you support or oppose this memorial in
its current form?” more than three quarters said they opposed or strongly opposed the proposed memorial. Of the 340 people surveyed in the national capital region, 83 per cent were against the project as currently design.

(Here you can see the full list of questions that respondents were asked, as well as the images they were shown.)

“I don’t present this as a rigorous public engagement,” said Graves of the poll results, but rather a “relatively casual introduction” of a project to a public that hasn’t seen it before.

And it’s true. The poll doesn’t get into the controversy about the location. Nor does the poll discuss in any way the political and somewhat secretive manoeuverings behind this project. For example, no one seems to know how it is that the memorial, backed by the charitable group Tribute to Liberty, was moved from its originally planned location at the Garden of the Provinces to the current prime piece of real estate next to the Supreme Court.

But this fairly simple survey, which begins by asking respondents to think about whether they are proud or embarrassed by their capital, is the closest thing we’ve had to any public consultation on this monumental change in development plans for the Judicial Precinct.

And when the public was consulted in this tiniest of ways, Canadians overwhelmingly responded with a resounding, “What the hell?”

This is not to say that we should decide designs for monuments or public art by referendum. But, as Graves pointed out, “it’s worthwhile that the public have a seat at the table and have an input … it’s only reasonable to ask the denizens of the region and the citizens of the country what they think of this.”

Leaders in the Conservative government, who’ve pledged $3 million in public funds to this project, are naturally trying to cast the results of this poll as disrespect for the memory of the millions who perished at the hands of totalitarian communist regimes.

But questioning the design and location of the memorial isn’t the equivalent of saying one shouldn’t exist (although there are those who question the need to mark historical events that did not directly involve Canada). And yet, it is hard to see how Canadians will be able to engage in any sort of discussion about what they’d like to see built in the heart of the capital when their leaders continue only to engage in doublespeak.

[email protected]
twitter.com/jchianello

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/columnists/0526-col-chianello

[Boxster]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Change that one to "(A) memorial to honour the contributions of Aboriginal Peoples" and I'd be on board. I think we're pushing the threshold for victim monuments, even for a country that does liberal guilt so well.

I need to ask the question.

How did they contribute to building Canada. Is it not the reverse.

[MoreTrains]

We all know online polls are run by anti-conservative communists; so the results are not in keeping with the freedoms of expression and memoriam of the Canadian people.

***Back in the real world***

No s**t! The polls only add more fuel to the fire that should be burning this idea. But, not surprising that the Cons still wont accept this as a valid expression.

[DEWLine]

Library and Archives Canada could do with a new HQ building. The current one's been serving well for decades, but they need something better if not larger.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by DEWLine

Library and Archives Canada could do with a new HQ building. The current one's been serving well for decades, but they need something better if not larger.

I don't think they need a new building just yet. They have a brand new one in Gatineau on Boulevard du Carrefour which houses a huge chunk of their collection.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

I don't think they need a new building just yet. They have a brand new one in Gatineau on Boulevard du Carrefour which houses a huge chunk of their collection.

That's the preservation centre.

The pointy end of LAC is, well, LACking.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Boxster

I need to ask the question.

How did they contribute to building Canada. Is it not the reverse.

I take no position. I'm just put off by "victim" monuments, even more so by monuments to foreign victims (not to diminish their victimization).

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

That's the preservation centre.

The pointy end of LAC is, well, LACking.

Being the federal government they can house the cubicle type employees just about anywhere in Ottawa or Gatineau. It doesn't have to be in a building dedicated to LAC. Most buildings I've worked in were shared with multiple departments. Unless the LAC building on Wellington has major safety deficiencies I don't see any reason to replace it.

[rocketphish]

Victims of communism memorial won't feature 'death mural' of bodies

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: May 26, 2015, Last Updated: May 26, 2015 7:11 PM EDT


An early drawing of the winning ABSTRAKT Studio Architecture concept for the National Memorial to Victims of Communism featured images of the Katyn massacre.

Relax, Ottawa. Whatever its merits or demerits, the planned Memorial to the Victims of Communism will not feature a “giant death mural” of dead bodies, as Ottawa consultant and activist Dennis Van Staalduinen tweeted to the general horror of his 10,000 Twitter followers Tuesday.

The “bleak and ghastly” image of the Katyn massacre disseminated by Van Staalduinen was part of the original design of the memorial, and can still be seen on the website of its designer, Toronto’s ABSTRAKT Studio Architecture. The image is visible on the massive memorial’s “memory folds” if viewed from a distance.

But by the time ABSTRAKT Studio’s design was declared the winner of the national design competition for the Wellington Street memorial, the Katyn massacre image had already been abandoned.

Voytek Gorczynski, head of ABSTRAKT Studio, said the massacre image was only ever a “placeholder” to show the concept until the design team could settle on a final image on the memory folds.

“We are still working on the idea for the image, but it’s going to be a positive image based on the idea of Canada being a land of refuge,” he said. “It’s still evolving.”

“Canada, a Land of Refuge,” is the memorial’s subtitle, meant to be an uplifting counterpoint to its main focus on the 100 million people who lost their lives to Communist regimes worldwide.

The memorial is supposed to be built this year, but is awaiting design approval from the National Capital Commission. The matter is scheduled to be considered at the NCC board’s June meeting.

[email protected]
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...orial-wont-feature-death-mural-of-bodies

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

But by the time ABSTRAKT Studio’s design was declared the winner of the national design competition for the Wellington Street memorial, the Katyn massacre image had already been abandoned.

Voytek Gorczynski, head of ABSTRAKT Studio, said the massacre image was only ever a “placeholder” to show the concept until the design team could settle on a final image on the memory folds.

Bait and switch... in reverse. So they have been holding on to the knowledge for MONTHS that this is not the design.

Now everyone is supposed to go "whew"... go ahead then... which of course will trash the court plan.

Our government is beyond sick.

You know in all honesty... I blame the system (more than the individual) for letting narcissistic psychopaths to rise to the top... I'm at a loss as to how to correct it...

[acottawa]

Whether or not the communist thing is a good or bad idea, the courthouse was on the books for 2, maybe 3 years. Chrétien wanted to name something after Trudeau when the plan to rename Mount Logan fell through. Martin killed it as soon as he came into office. The site was vacant for decades before that and has been vacant since then. There is no way the courthouse will be built (if Trudeau wins the election he's not going to name something after his father, if Mulcair or Harper win they're not going to name something after the Liberal leader's father.) Also, it is unclear why the Darcy Mcgee building is a bad location for the courts in question.

[HighwayStar]

Fair enough I suppose... I'd really never heard of the court before the monument came along anyway.

But if they have known for months that the publicized design was a lie.. and didn't do anything to assuage the growing fears... this is pure politicking at its absolute worst.

I stand by my "Government is sick" comment... they are simply manipulating people for their own selfish will... and not representing "the will of the people" in any way, shape or form.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

Being the federal government they can house the cubicle type employees just about anywhere in Ottawa or Gatineau. It doesn't have to be in a building dedicated to LAC. Most buildings I've worked in were shared with multiple departments. Unless the LAC building on Wellington has major safety deficiencies I don't see any reason to replace it.

It has had repeated major systems failures in the past couple of decades; pipes bursting all over the place. The thing is held together with duct tape and twine.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

You know in all honesty... I blame the system (more than the individual) for letting narcissistic psychopaths to rise to the top... I'm at a loss as to how to correct it...

Vote. Get all your like-minded family and friends to do the same.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There is no way the courthouse will be built (if Trudeau wins the election he's not going to name something after his father, if Mulcair or Harper win they're not going to name something after the Liberal leader's father.)

Just because Mulcair or Harper might not be keen to lionize Trudeau Sr. doesn't mean the courthouse can't possibly get built. Buildings change their names in the development process all the — time.

The replacement for the Lorne Building was renamed The Jim Flaherty Building well after major construction had finished.

The John Diefenbaker Building was previously known as 111 Sussex Drive and, before that, it was known officially as the Old City Hall building (and before that, it was just the City Hall building, naturally).

Zibi started out as Les Iles and, before that, it was The Islands.

The Sir John A. MacDonald Parkway started out as the Ottawa River Parkway.

The list goes on and on and on. Anybody can build a federal court building on that site and call it literally anything if naming it after Trudeau is undesirable.

[jitterbug]

This monument is a nothing more than a physical manifestation of a fascist regime (the "Harper" government), intent on imposing its fundamentalist far-right views on Canadians. As usual, they continue to lie about their true intent, which I believe is to deflect (and deny) the many victims of capitalism -- among them the army of sweat shop workers (who in many cases die on the job) in the world's many sacrifice zones and who ultimately serve to enrich the capitalists while impoverishing virtually everyone else. Shameful.