Rapid Transit

[thistleclub]

FWIW, the fuzzy-arrow action plan in the recent budget starts Hamilton’s project in 2018-2019 — an election year.

The absence of “EA/Design” on that arrow could also be seen as a sign that they plan on going back to the drawing board, thereby buying themselves time (if nothing else, a revised route would presumably trigger another EA).

So as long as Ontario Liberals remain in power when we break ground and policy priorities don't get scrambled in the meantime, all is good.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by matt602

Making the LRT anything less than Eastgate to McMaster makes the entire thing pointless, as far as I'm concerned. There are tons of McMaster students who I see boarding the B-Line bus at Eastgate who probably come in from Stoney Creek. Sometimes it's full already by the time it pulls up at Nash Road toward downtown.

If we make the LRT route stubby or make it go all over the place, it loses it's "express" nature and just becomes a mostly useless white elephant that we'll be stuck with for years until it's expanded to usefulness. Do it right the first time.

Wasn't it expected to drop the travel time from 35 minutes to 30 minutes? Not really a major express thing. The issue is more capacity than speed along the B-Line anyway no?

[thistleclub]

The 10 B-Line schedule currently puts that route’s travel time between McMaster and Ottawa North at 21 minutes, or an average of around 27 km/h over 9.3km.

Metrolinx’s Hamilton King-Main Benefits Case (Feb 2010) assessed its Phased LRT option (Option 3, McMaster to Ottawa Street) as a 17-minute trip, average speed 34km/h or close to twice the average HSR speed.

The HSR Operational Review (March 2010) made note of the sub-par average speeds of the transit system. Page 19:

“HSR service speeds are in almost all cases less than 40 km/hr, below the posted maximum road speed of 50 km/hr. Further, most of the downtown area (below the escarpment) has average speeds of under 20 km/hr. Overall, HSR’s average system speed is 18.7 km/hr, which is below both the national average and HSR’s peer group (CUTA 2008 Canadian Transit Fact Book). Given the large number of routes that run through the downtown area, any action that would increase average vehicle speed (such as transit priority measures) will benefit a large number of riders, and potentially lead to fewer vehicles being required.”

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Having a spur line to Hunter GO Station probably won't cost much since it's closer to King. But if any station the Harbour West GO Station is likely to have all day GO Train service so it'll be pricey having a spur line up to the Harbour West GO Station, gonna have to pass several blocks, Wilson, Cannon, Barton and basically to Strachan.

The currently announced plan is all-day service to Hunter, peak service at both:

Two-way, 60-minute service or better on weekdays, evenings and weekends for:
- Hamilton on the Lakeshore West line (all day) between the Hamilton GO Centre and Union Station

Peak period, peak direction service on weekdays every:
- 15 minutes on the Lakeshore West line between Hamilton GO Centre and Union Station
- 30 minutes on the Lakeshore West line between James Street North station and Union Station

I could see future all-day service stopping at West Harbour, especially if extensions into Stoney Creek and beyond happen. Perhaps hourly service to each station, with staggered timing so trains run every 30 minutes across the two.

[Azh]

Hello all, I'm new to this forum but have been following development news in Hamilton for a while. On the subject of LRT connection to GO station, wasn't there talk about just extending the B-line past Eastgate to the proposed Confederation Station? That would be pretty easy to do I think. Or does the LRT have to connect to the existing GO station/ West Harbor Station? Does anyone know the answer to this?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by Azh

On the subject of LRT connection to GO station, wasn't there talk about just extending the B-line past Eastgate to the proposed Confederation Station? Or does the LRT have to connect to the existing GO station/ West Harbor Station?

Everything is perpetually up for grabs.

Existing Hamilton GO Centre is ~350m south of King & Hughson.
Existing McMaster GO Terminal is ~900m north of Main & Emerson.
West Harbour GO Station under construction is ~1.1km north of King & James.
Hypothetical Confederation GO Station is ~1.6km north of Eastgate Square.
Taken together, those spurs would add around 4km to the B-Line.

On the face of it, the cost of the "Confederation spur" would appear to be roughly equivalent to adding spurs to the two existing stations.

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

On the face of it, the cost of the "Confederation spur" would appear to be roughly equivalent to adding spurs to the two existing stations.

If not cheaper. Additionally, there would be a great opportunity for a park-and-ride (though I guess that's true at Eastgate too) at Confederation.

[thistleclub]

Thumbnail terminus demographics via Eastgate Square Market Summary:

Total Population
1km: 13,196
3km: 61,907
5km: 117,052
Total Households
1km: 5,306
3km: 25,484
5km: 47,779
Household Average Income
1km: $65,369
3km: $71,707
5km: $76,978

[mishap]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

On the face of it, the cost of the "Confederation spur" would appear to be roughly equivalent to adding spurs to the two existing stations.

A cheaper option might be to have a Barton Express service through West Harbour and Centennial, plus relocate the McMaster GO terminal closer to Main with added capacity for HSR buses.

With a little bit of creativity, Hughson St can be turned into a barebones busway between the two downtown train stations. Just restrict it to immediately local traffic (ie. on that block).

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by mishap

A cheaper option might be to have a Barton Express service through West Harbour and Centennial, plus relocate the McMaster GO terminal closer to Main with added capacity for HSR buses.

With a little bit of creativity, Hughson St can be turned into a barebones busway between the two downtown train stations. Just restrict it to immediately local traffic (ie. on that block).

That would seem to be a pretty obvious and cost-effective solution — something like a tighter 12 Wentworth. A 15-minute headway is probably more than adequate to demand (considering that the train service will be rush-hour rudimentary for the foreseeable future). And FWIW, Confederation and McMaster GO seem to be low-priority hubs for Metrolinx, which has focused locally on Gateway Hubs West Harbour/Hamilton-LIUNA and Mohawk & Upper James as well as one Anchor Hub, Downtown Hamilton.

Also on a connectivity note, it will be interesting to see how/if the province weighs the transfer math around hubs/spurs. The co-fare math on HSR-operated LRT trains connecting with GO train and bus transfers (and vice-versa) would presumably be a wash if the traveller is using the system for the return route as well. Otherwise, the balance is more fraught: Presto’s per-passenger fare subsidy comes out to roughly that of the average HSR fare ($1.37 in 2007, according to the 2010 HSR Operational Review, with an observed transfer rate of 56%). GO can accommodate those revenue tides more easily than the HSR can.

[king10]

LRT Funding?

http://buff.ly/1HGG1LZ

[thistleclub]

Via the Spec:

"A number of large stumbling blocks were at issue at that point, sources said, including whether the HSR or Metrolinx would operate the LRT and whether the province would build the entire proposed route from McMaster University to Eastgate Square."

There's a seldom-discussed potential outcome: Hamilton gets LRT, the province covers capital costs and Metrolinx operates the LRT system — so the associated revenue vanishes from the HSR’s coffers.

[MalcolmTucker]

Having the asset sit on the province's books really helps the province out from a budget balance perspective. P3 with a private operator, with the city receiving fare revenue but then paying the operating and maintenance costs, and the province paying the capital cost.

Isn't this what is happening with Eglinton? I know there was a fight over who did exactly what with that project a few years back.

[matt602]

I thought Eglinton was being operated by the TTC?

[HillStreetBlues]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

There's a seldom-discussed potential outcome: Hamilton gets LRT, the province covers capital costs and Metrolinx operates the LRT system — so the associated revenue vanishes from the HSR’s coffers.

I think that would be a better outcome for riders...

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by matt602

I thought Eglinton was being operated by the TTC?

The project is a Design, Build, Finance and Maintain (DBFM) according to Infrastructure Ontario (took a bit to find out). So operate, yes. So it looks like the TTC gets to drive the vehicles and set service hours, though there would be a variable fee they would need to pay for variable costs of maintenance.

[lucasmascotto]

In case you weren't able to access the full article, here it is:

The province is expected to announce support for a transformative and contentious light rail transit project in Hamilton as early as Tuesday, The Spectator has learned.

News of the impending announcement started circulating among city and business leaders on the weekend. The timing of the big reveal was thought to hinge in part on co-ordinating schedules of various political leaders this week.

Sources at both levels of government said Monday a funding announcement was imminent for at least a portion of Hamilton's requested $811-million, 14-kilometre LRT line. The plan will include a spur line to at least one downtown-area GO station at the province's insistence.

A fast-tracked timeline is also expected to be confirmed for expansion of GO Train service to a new station planned near Centennial Parkway.

Plenty of questions remain outstanding, however – including who would run the LRT line, how much provincial cash is available and how quickly it would be spent.

The recent provincial budget suggested rapid transit cash for Hamilton is slated for 2018 or later – in effect, beyond the next election. The province has also already committed more than $15 billion of a 10-year, $16-billion pot of rapid transit funding to other projects, including GO electrification and Mississauga LRT.

After the budget, however, Transportation Minister Steven Del Duca tweeted to say he looked forward to sharing "in the coming weeks" how the province's commitment to rapid transit investment would benefit Hamilton.

The Spectator reported earlier this month on intense, behind-the-scenes negotiations among provincial and city officials over Hamilton's rapid transit cash request – which also included $302 million for a garage and new buses.

A number of large stumbling blocks were at issue at that point, sources said, including whether the HSR or Metrolinx would operate the LRT and whether the province would build the entire proposed route from McMaster University to Eastgate Square.

Past planning for the so-called "B-line" along the Main, King and Queenston corridor also looked at shorter LRT options such as Mac to the Ottawa Street area.

Although the city has never withdrawn its official request for LRT cash, support around the council table has wavered.

Several incumbent councillors who initially voted to ask for the cash campaigned against LRT during the recent municipal election.

Mayor Fred Eisenberger wouldn't comment Monday morning on whether an announcement was imminent.

But the LRT supporter has consistently said Premier Kathleen Wynne promised him behind closed doors earlier this year to fully fund LRT capital costs.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton LRT announcement will be for a shorter line

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/n...ent-will-be-for-a-shorter-line-1.3086567

The province is expected to make a light rail transit (LRT) announcement Tuesday morning, but sources say it will be for a shorter route than the city initially expected.

The line, which was originally supposed to be 13.5 kilometres from McMaster University to Eastgate Square, will likely stop at the City Motor Hotel property at 55 Queenston Rd, two sources have told CBC Hamilton. That means the planned route will be about 11.3 kilometres.

Hamilton has been asking the province to fund full capital funding for an LRT, and used a Metrolinx grant to fund 30 per cent of the design costs. Metrolinx estimates the full cost of building LRT would be about $1.4 billion in 2014 costs.

........

Mark Cripps, an assistant to Ted McMeekin MPP for Ancaster-Dundas-Flamborough-Westdale, tweeted earlier: "Tomorrow will be an historic day for my city."

The announcement will be around 7:40 a.m. at University Hall at McMaster University.

[king10]

To the Queenston Traffic Circle? This needs to go to eastgate. Is the city going to contribute the last 2.2km?

Honestly I dont even think we need it. Improve bus service for half the cost and use the cost savings on other needed infastructure projects.

[SteelTown]

Premier Wynne will make the LRT announcement at @McMasterU at 8 am on Tuesday It'll be livestreamed at http://original.livestream.com/premierofontario