Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[Oilkountry]

was just on twitter checking out the tweets on the Argo's/BMO move. Tons of TFC hate but way more celebration from Argos fans and CFL fans.

[Oilkountry]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

You love parroting out the 'insecurity' line for anything to do with TFC fans, yet it's your CFL fanboy buddies from as far away as Saskatchewan and Alberta with no connection to this franchise who are registering on TFC and MLS forums to talk smack about TFC. Who's insecure? If you can't see the face in your own mirror then there's no point explaining to the illogical.

A quote from OilbustKountry:
"It will be known as a CFL stadium this time next year TFC will be an after though in the summer sports scene in Toronto. BMO field Home of the Toronto Argonauts ....and that soccer team"

And THAT...is CFL-fan logic, an example of why there's no point talking logically with you guys and more fun laughing at you...

look what i was replying to you idiot. Don't single out what i was saying and call it CFL fan logic when I was replying to you saying the Argos were gonna go belly up after referring them to an unwanted step child. That was me stooping to your level bud

[P Unit]

The biggest day for the Argos in several decades and it's about to be upstaged by the Leafs. Man, even when that team wins it loses.

[Oilkountry]

"I wouldn't be so excited about the Argoleaches continuing their ugly step-sister routine at yet another stadium (3rd stadium in the last couple decades is it?). Well at least we'll get more revenue to reinvest into TFC during the Leaches stadium attendance-bump until they inevitably go belly up and will try to mooch off another teams investments..."

VS me saying that the country would view BMO as a CFL stadium with a soccer tenant. Which is so true. On a Canadian level TFC is hardly reconized

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

look what i was replying to you idiot. Don't single out what i was saying and call it CFL fan logic when I was replying to you saying the Argos were gonna go belly up after referring them to an unwanted step child. That was me stooping to your level bud

ArgoNOTs, what's that? Leafs just got Babcock

Oh right, that ugly post-menopausal stepsister, now it's coming back to me...listen Oil-bustKountry, TFC makes $60million and their support is growing every year. CFL's popularity in Ontario is shrinking in Ontario every year (not just the Argos), the demographic and monetary writing is on the wall. Only one group wanted to buy them since everyone else balked when they saw the $7-8 million/year the ArgoNOTs have been bleeding. Keep up that wet dream about the Farmer Grandpas Football League overshadowing soccer in this city. He probably sold the ArgoLeaches for $3 million (and then, only because Bell wanted to stick it to Rogers, ArgoNOTs market value is probably in the negative millions otherwise), while TFC's current market value is $200 million assuming they want to sell, the value keeps doubling every year. Who's the daddy? Who's the little ugly stepsister? That's right...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by P Unit

The biggest day for the Argos in several decades and it's about to be upstaged by the Leafs. Man, even when that team wins it loses.

Biggest day since the 2012 Grey Cup win... let's not get carried away here.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

ArgoNOTs, what's that? Leafs just got Babcock

Oh right, that ugly post-menopausal stepsister, now it's coming back to me...listen Oil-bustKountry, TFC makes $60million and their support is growing every year. CFL's popularity in Ontario is shrinking in Ontario every year (not just the Argos), the demographic and monetary writing is on the wall. Only one group wanted to buy them since everyone else balked when they saw the $7-8 million/year the ArgoNOTs have been bleeding. Keep up that wet dream about the Farmer Grandpas Football League overshadowing soccer in this city. He probably sold the ArgoLeaches for $3 million (and then, only because Bell wanted to stick it to Rogers, ArgoNOTs market value is probably -$10mil otherwise), while TFC's current market value is $200 million assuming they want to sell, the value keeps doubling every year. Who's the daddy? Who's the little ugly stepsister? That's right...

I see we have a believer in the power of positive thinking?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

TFC makes $60million and their support is growing every year.

Their revenue was $30.9million in 2012 with a profit of $4.5million on that.

Source - http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45efhfi/5-toronto-fc/

Care to explain how they are making $60million now - after all those financial outlays on Bradley, Defoe, Gilberto, Altidore and Giovinco?

Oh - and that $100million renovation?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Their revenue was $30.9million in 2012 with a profit of $4.5million on that.

Source - http://www.forbes.com/pictures/emdm45efhfi/5-toronto-fc/

Care to explain how they are making $60million now - after all those financial outlays on Bradley, Defoe, Gilberto, Altidore and Giovinco?

Oh - and that $100million renovation?

Seriously man, do you audit every post, you must be lots of fun at parties...

Now it's $60 million in revenue (it doubled in 3 years), quote from the stadium opening day, May 2015.

TFC doesnt care about profits, it plugs every dollar back into growth, breaking even after spending millions per year on infrastructure and growth is sound business. Look how many assets they've built up in just 8 short years...including the world-class Kia training grounds that yes, the ArgoLeaches mooch from as well...

TFC is a solid investment, they could get zero attendance and pay zero in player salaries and they'd still make millions in profit (player salaries excluding optional DP's are paid for by the league from marketing revenues).

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Now it's $60 million in revenue (it doubled in 3 years), quote from the stadium opening day, May 2015.

TFC doesn't care about profits, it plugs every dollar back into growth, breaking even after spending millions/year on infrastructure and growth is sound business. Look how many assets they've built up in just 8 short years.

Wow - the stadium talked? Holy shit - now I can understand why they make $60million a year

What assets to they have?

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Wow - the stadium talked? Holy shit - now I can understand why they make $60million a year

What assets to they have?

Jesus Christ man, do I have to write everything out in crayons for you?

I'll try to type in simple terms just for you:

It was a direct quote from Leiweke on "stadium opening day". He is expecting Toronto FC will make around $60 million in revenue this year. Not too shabby. Considering they've doubled revenues in 3 years, the future is pretty bright.

Their assets include Kia training ground, a world-class multimillion dollar facility and their profits have been invested into upgrading a half-assed venue into a quality soccer stadium which will have a roof and other amenities by this time next year.

[Oilkountry]

In the end it doesn't matter what MC says because it doesn't change anything. The argo's are going into a new, Modern and most importantly suitable home with a strong ownership That has an invested interest to see the team succeed on more than just a franchise level since bell owns the TV rights to the CFL.

Just keeps getting better for the CFL stadium situation. Next up Stamps! Hope to be hearing something soon on that front.

2016 BMO
2017 Mosiac
2018 Stamps new home?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

It was a direct quote from Leiweke on "stadium opening day". He is expecting Toronto FC will make around $60 million in revenue this year. Not too shabby. Considering they've doubled revenues in 3 years, the future is pretty bright.

Ah - Tim Leiweke - the biggest BS artist in North American sports. I remember this quote from him as well

“Our soccer team is absolutely in complete disarray,”

“The team we turn the quickest will be TFC and we’ll turn them [in 2014],” he said.

“Mark it down, write it down, film it … We’re going to turn TFC around and we’re going to make the playoffs next year. We know where we’re headed, we know how to get there. We’ve been given the resources of this ownership group and we will get to the right place.”

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Their assets include Kia training ground, a world-class multimillion dollar facility and their profits have been invested into upgrading a half-assed venue into a quality soccer stadium which will have a roof and other amenities by this time next year.

Stop confusing MLSE with TFC - MLSE dollars paid for all that - not TFC

[osmo]

No need for mud slinging.

Time will show the Argos true colors. I work in the sports industry here in Toronto and I have said many times that in Toronto central there are next to no Argo fans. Which is why you see out of towners blowing smoke and slinging med because so few people in the city really care.

This move was on the horizon a while ago when Braley would not budge from his sales price. Nobody was going to buy it at what he wanted it for so Larry T and Bell had to come in and essentially bail out the team.

With the Babcock move coming out of know where, MLSE could of chose to let the Argos at least get one full press day to themselves, they didn't even care to do that.

The Argos to BMO will be a temporary thing. You think the plan is to get them to at least some type of stable footing to get a eventual return in the investment. Evreybody talks about how this move will put a new spark in downtown.. I don't see it. But what I do see is that now the large base of their established fanbase in the suburbs now will have a harder time getting to games. It will help now they have more weekend dates to play on, which is good. But you introduce more inconvenience to the people who show up to your games the most.

There isn't even a promise the team makes money. They will have even less revenue streams now simply being a tenant at BMO Filed (Drinks and concessions go to MLSE, Parking goes to Ex Place).

Plus how do you even divide up the pie. The Arogs pay rent to MLSE --> MLSE gives their cut of overall facility revenues to Larry T. and Bell --> Rogers still gets a cut of MLSE money but none of Argos money but still collects money from the Argos...

Next with BMO field at 30K seats, how can we promise the Argos sell out evrey game? They have been averaging 18-23K a game and IMO the old configuration for BMO would of been the ideal size for them. The model that would work for the Argos is small capacity of stands with a abundance of suites and boxes. You can sell anything to rich people here in Toronto. If you don't believe me go see how bust the boxes are at crappy Marlies games, those boxes are all usually busy and full for the games, rich people just want a reason to spend money. BMO Field won't have that, it will have the club options for the Argos to exploit but it still has to many seats. After the honeymoon wears off there is no reason why it won't return back to a half filled stadium.

Lastly, the demographics are not here in the city. Again a revival of the Argos would mean you are bringing back fans that were actually there...

There isn't a Argos fan base in Toronto proper. The biggest job Bell and Larry T. have to do is to used MLSE foundations already laid to do aggressive community and grassroots building to get a new fan base growing. IMO all that work will be done with the intentions to stabilize it to eventually sell the team. I don't think Bell/TSN minds loosing money to keep the Argos going but I can't imagine Larry T is in that game, maybe he sells his stake once the team is on even footing, who knows.

The reality TFC fans harp loudly like this because there is actually a fan base here. This is what a passionate group of people who are invested in a team look and sound like. Where was the rally of Argo fans? I haven't seen one interviewed in the papers or on TV. They really are a small group in the city and are largely based in the largely white blue collar parts of South Etobicoke. Aside from that pocket there really isn't much else where in the city for support, its all suburban.

[osmo]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

Ah - Tim Leiweke - the biggest BS artist in North American sports. I remember this quote from him as well










Stop confusing MLSE with TFC - MLSE dollars paid for all that - not TFC

Give Tim some credit. He can be a snake oil salesmen at times but look at the stunts he pulled off this week. People will give Shanahan all the credit for Babcock but I believe it was Tim Lieweke doing the major bidding and smoozing. He has a track record of going for the big fish whenever he can.

Well TFC is MLSE. What will happen when the Raptors start to being in more money the the Leafs after next season? MLSE poured 100m into BMO field but it is not like they didn't have their reasons. The Marlies who loose money aren't next in line for any massive cash dumps, they have put money towards all of their money making properties, next up is the renovation at the ACC for the NBA All start game and the construction of the Raptors training facility.

[cjones2451]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

ArgoNOTs, what's that? Leafs just got Babcock

Oh right, that ugly post-menopausal stepsister, now it's coming back to me...listen Oil-bustKountry, TFC makes $60million and their support is growing every year. CFL's popularity in Ontario is shrinking in Ontario every year (not just the Argos), the demographic and monetary writing is on the wall. Only one group wanted to buy them since everyone else balked when they saw the $7-8 million/year the ArgoNOTs have been bleeding. Keep up that wet dream about the Farmer Grandpas Football League overshadowing soccer in this city. He probably sold the ArgoLeaches for $3 million (and then, only because Bell wanted to stick it to Rogers, ArgoNOTs market value is probably in the negative millions otherwise), while TFC's current market value is $200 million assuming they want to sell, the value keeps doubling every year. Who's the daddy? Who's the little ugly stepsister? That's right...

Overall in Canada the CFL has a higher average attendance than MLS as a whole and better TV ratings. MLS is having real challenges with attendance in Dallas, Chicago and Colorado, so there are MLS issues as much as CFL. If you are not a CFL fan, that is your prerogative and yes the Argos need help, but to bash the CFL and its fans to further your own agenda seems juvenile (not quite as much as the TFC fans to female reporters). In Ontario, CFL ratings are strong, and the TiCats and RedBlacks sold out all of their games in their new stadiums last year.

I am a CFL (Lions) and MLS (Whitecaps) fan. I hope BMO works out for both teams.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by osmo

Next with BMO field at 30K seats, how can we promise the Argos sell out evrey game? They have been averaging 18-23K a game and IMO the old configuration for BMO would of been the ideal size for them. The model that would work for the Argos is small capacity of stands with a abundance of suites and boxes. You can sell anything to rich people here in Toronto. If you don't believe me go see how bust the boxes are at crappy Marlies games, those boxes are all usually busy and full for the games, rich people just want a reason to spend money. BMO Field won't have that, it will have the club options for the Argos to exploit but it still has to many seats. After the honeymoon wears off there is no reason why it won't return back to a half filled stadium.

The planned Argos in BMO configuration is only supposed to be 25K, not 30K seats.

Why won't the same amount of suites / club rooms will be the same for the Argos as it there for TFC?? There's 44 Suites, 2 Club/Loge Rooms, Rogers Club Room, Tunnel Club Room, East Field Club Room and 2 director lounges currently at BMO. Actually - those 2 director lounges will have to be demolished most likely to allow for the longer field.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Originally Posted by osmo

the Raptors training facility.

It's already well under construction - this was a month ago

http://urbantoronto.ca/forum/showthread....y-(Exhibition-Place)?p=992692#post992692

[Jasper and one o nin]

BMO doesn't have the length to fit a CFL field (sorry if this has been discussed - I haven't read through the posts). 110+20+20 = 150 yards

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by osmo

tripey drivel