Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Prestige Worldwide

You're on the right path here. It's definitely time for Phoenix/Glendale/Tempe to seize upon the current share of Prop 400 $$$ that goes to new freeway construction. We simply don't require the same scale of new freeway construction and the aforementioned three cities certainly don't need anymore - they need more transit. Voters probably won't go for all that money being plowed into transit, so it will need to be balanced out with street maintenance. The current tax expires in 2025 I believe. I would predict a county-wide renewal will be put on the ballot in 2020. I also think that the Legislature needs to allow the County to bring the question to the voters, which is going to be problematic (the Legislature was trying to meddle with the Prop 400 amount for Transit, but Gov. Napolitano exerted some influence to get the Legislature to allow the County to ask for the current percentage).

Perhaps the attitudes have changed over the years towards transit? That would seem to be the case.

I know it's not (anything) the same but metro Denver passed a 4/10ths percent sales tax to build out their Fastracks program. That's on top of the 6/10ths percent sales tax for annual operation of RTD.

It makes a big difference if you can get more regional cooperation (obviously). Perhaps by 2020 the cost of gas will be back up near $5 a gallon? Perhaps the whole county would consider some amount for establishing better bus service Valley wide?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Even with all those features, BRT often offers a less comfortable ride than LRT. I remember a business trip I made to Boston a few years ago. Upon arrival at Logan, MBTA signs directed me to the Silver Line as the best way to travel to my hotel. I boarded Boston's BRT expecting a quick, smooth ride into Downtown. Instead, it was as noisy and bumpy as any bus ride I've ever experienced and we wasted time with a stop while the bus switched between diesel and electric power.

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Thanks for the review of Boston's BRT. The supporters of it seem to make quite a good sales pitch.

I happen to catch up to this dialogue on the Tempe thread.
Admittedly I have no personal experience with BRT.

Not having been to Kansas City in a looong time, I flew over today (via the interwebs). Amazing the urban energy there also which led to this (repost):

Get em while they're hot

Courtesy of https://cincystreetcar.wordpress.com/

Who was the fellow that came up with "Buy America?"

Not unlike Hyundai-Rotem commuter train cars which are assembled in Philadelphia (for Denver) - CAF which is a Spanish company is assembling their Urbos 3 Streetcar in Elmira NY. Both Cincinnati and Kansas City will be using these on their new streetcar lines, coming soon.


While Denver is building a network of suburb to city lines it has its advantages and disadvantages. The metro area voters wanted it and that is what they are getting.

With Phoenix so much is different. The success of Metro Rail isn't from suburban riders but rather from urban riders. With the wide streets within the city it just seems like a great opportunity to connect neighborhoods with rebuilt streetscapes and some form of transit, at least partly.

With that in mind streetcars might be preferred to LRT. Denver's own monitor, Cirrus, on his own blog makes this comparison between streetcars and buses.

Even compared to buses of exactly the same length, streetcars can support a higher passenger capacity. Since gliding along rails is so much more smooth than rumbling along asphalt, and since there’s no need for huge wheel wells, it’s more practical for streetcars to have a lot of open space that maximizes standing capacity.

[N830MH]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...der-light-rail-transit-options/26129521/

A light-rail line connecting downtown Glendale with the existing Valley Metro system is more than a decade away but city officials are gearing up to pick the best alignment for the $543 million project.

[N830MH]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...ley-needs-get-light-rail-track/26143277/

The debate in Phoenix over a proposed transportation sales tax to provide $30 billion for light rail extension over a 35-year period has me thinking about the future of light rail in the West Valley.

What does that future look like? In a nutshell, it looks to me to be more or less zero, zip, nada.

[TakeFive]

Canamex - a new playground for Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper?

"Jerry Colangelo talks up Interstate 11 with Carlos Slim"
Apr 29, 2015 by Eric Jay Toll, Phoenix Business Journal

The two Phoenix businessmen talked with Slim — the world’s second-richest man, according to Forbes— about what I-11 means economically for Mexico and the U.S. “Carlos didn’t know about I-11,” Colangelo said... “We saw this as an opportunity to put this important transportation plan in front of him.”

Achieving Interstate status for this could be hard given the current funding environment is struggling even to maintain the current system. But the designation doesn't cost anything and they may be hoping to secure the designation before Senator Harry Reid retires at the end of 2016. I'm sure his seniority is an asset.

Personally I'd rather see the money go into a commuter rail route for Phoenix but then nobody has asked me for my opinion.

[N830MH]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2015/04/29/look-light-rail-delivered-already/26586387/

MovePHX is an all-of-the-above transportation strategy that, if approved by Phoenix voters on Aug. 25, will increase overall bus service by 70 percent, make sure every street in the city gets a fresh coat of asphalt, and add about 40 miles of new light rail to the existing 20-mile line.

For a thriving, modern Phoenix that attracts the jobs of the future and connects our residents directly to them, vote yes on MovePHX, Proposition 104, this August.

Don't forget to vote yes on MovePHX. Please say YES.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by N830MH

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2015/04/29/look-light-rail-delivered-already/26586387/

One click led to another click where Robert Robb, The Republic | azcentral.com April 14, 2015 made the counter argument:

What's true of Banner is true generally. Light rail doesn't create new economic activity.

Robb's "Banner" argument is silly. He must be totally oblivious to what is happening in other metro areas.

At most, it changes where that activity takes place.

Well, yeah, duh

In the first place, Phoenix already has one of the highest sales tax rates in the Valley. Phoenix's current rate is higher than that of Chandler, Gilbert, Mesa, Peoria, Scottsdale and Tempe.

This point is legitimate; that's a concern and a good talking point for the opposition.

I would say that I'm used to voting on things that are much more specific so that I have a clear vision of how my tax dollars will be spent. This proposal goes there to a degree. It's for something I think is needed but it does leave a lot to the imagination which could be good or not.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by N830MH

http://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/2015/04/29/look-light-rail-delivered-already/26586387/

Well dang... should have just read this and skipped the other though I'm always curious what the other side is claiming.

That piece by Victor Vidales is very well written and an easy-to-read, sound description of the need and advantages of the proposal.

[exit2lef]

Robb errs in two respects:

First, his argument that transit simply relocates economic activity ignores the way in which it can make a metro area more attractive to new business development and site selection. Banner's relocation within Phoenix city limits isn't necessarily a net increase in jobs or tax revenue, but the Banners of the future, either created here or opening new offices outside their home regions, may find Phoenix more attractive due to the city's investment in transit.

Second, he repeats the cliched claptrap that buses can do everything trains can do -- only cheaper. Most people who claim that have spent very little time riding either.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Robb errs in two respects:

First, his argument that transit simply relocates economic activity ignores the way in which it can make a metro area more attractive to new business development and site selection. Banner's relocation within Phoenix city limits isn't necessarily a net increase in jobs or tax revenue, but the Banners of the future, either created here or opening new offices outside their home regions, may find Phoenix more attractive due to the city's investment in transit.

Second, he repeats the cliched claptrap that buses can do everything trains can do -- only cheaper. Most people who claim that have spent very little time riding either.

Well stated.

I know that the stars have aligned well for downtown Denver but just zeroing in on the impact of transit...

The $450 million transit hub was built on reclaimed brownfield using TIF (tax increment financing) which would be dependent on the surrounding private development of a small area of land. Seemed a bit risky to me but they were able to secure $300 million in loans thanks to the ARRA.

The commuter trains won't start running until next year although there are LRT tracks at one end that are now in service. By the end of 2016 when three commuter lines should be in service the Union Station Neighborhood will be about 75% (or more) built out or under construction. It's over $4 billion in private investment and counting.

The first apartment to be completed, the 13 story LEED Gold Cadence Apartments sold for a "discount" to an all-cash foreign buyer who agreed to close when it was only about 50% leased up. The latest project to break ground was by Portman Holdings out of Atlanta. While it's extremely modest compared to Shanghai Centre or Embarcadero Center, it speaks to their interest in the neighborhood. Same is true of Shorenstein Properties of San Francisco who hasn't recently built anything in Denver.

Holland Partners which is completing the 21-story The Platform has recently broken ground on seventeenW which will have a Whole Foods flagship store as a retail anchor.

Point being that this is a built from scratch neighborhood that is specifically transit focused. I've never seen anything like this in over three decades of Denver history. When your time comes... amazing things happen. Transit was huge to much of what is happening.

[exit2lef]

Looks like the Central Mesa light rail extension is now scheduled to start service on October 26. It's listed among a series of proposed transit service changes on that date:

http://www.valleymetro.org/servicechanges

Also, the return of several bus routes to their customary routes along 19th Avenue after years of detours is a sign that light rail construction is almost done there. Maybe we'll see rail service from Montebello to Dunlap start with the April 2016 transit changes.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Well stated.

I know that the stars have aligned well for downtown Denver but just zeroing in on the impact of transit...

The $450 million transit hub was built on reclaimed brownfield using TIF (tax increment financing) which would be dependent on the surrounding private development of a small area of land. Seemed a bit risky to me but they were able to secure $300 million in loans thanks to the ARRA.

The commuter trains won't start running until next year although there are LRT tracks at one end that are now in service. By the end of 2016 when three commuter lines should be in service the Union Station Neighborhood will be about 75% (or more) built out or under construction. It's over $4 billion in private investment and counting.

The first apartment to be completed, the 13 story LEED Gold Cadence Apartments sold for a "discount" to an all-cash foreign buyer who agreed to close when it was only about 50% leased up. The latest project to break ground was by Portman Holdings out of Atlanta. While it's extremely modest compared to Shanghai Centre or Embarcadero Center, it speaks to their interest in the neighborhood. Same is true of Shorenstein Properties of San Francisco who hasn't recently built anything in Denver.

Holland Partners which is completing the 21-story The Platform has recently broken ground on seventeenW which will have a Whole Foods flagship store as a retail anchor.

Point being that this is a built from scratch neighborhood that is specifically transit focused. I've never seen anything like this in over three decades of Denver history. When your time comes... amazing things happen. Transit was huge to much of what is happening.

Hate to say it but for cities in the mountain west (of which there are few) Denver is absolutely "drinking" Phoenix's "milkshake". It's frustrating that a lot of that, if not most of it, is due to politics.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Looks like the Central Mesa light rail extension is now scheduled to start service on October 26. Its listed among a series of proposed transit service changes on that date:

http://www.valleymetro.org/servicechanges

Also, the return of several bus routes to their customary routes along 19th Avenue after years of detours is a sign that light rail construction is almost done there. Maybe, we'll see service from Montebello to Dunlap start with the April 2016 transit changes.

Wow! That's great news!! I can't wait to go on light rail again. I am so excited for this!!!

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Wow! That's great news!! I can't wait to go on light rail again. I am so excited for this!!!

I was in downtown Mesa this weekend. I must say, the way the tracks and stations are integrated into the street is just beautiful, and is unique from the existing stations and tracks. I noticed a lot of areas do not have curbs, which could be dangerous, but looks great! Well done Mesa!

[Leo the Dog]

Congrats to Mesa (and North Phoenix)! Never got the chance to explore the extensions when I was in town this spring.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Hate to say it but for cities in the mountain west (of which there are few) Denver is absolutely "drinking" Phoenix's "milkshake". It's frustrating that a lot of that, if not most of it, is due to politics.

LOL, No doubt.

From a practical matter the enthusiasm for a sprawl model is the first culprit. I believe Arizona doesn't allow TIF or tax increment financing which in itself pushes new sprawl development at the expense of renewal and reinvestment. Even Phoenix, itself has sought to annex and grow its footprint presumably at the expense of the core city. Fortunately Mayor Phil reversed that and Stanton is also very supportive of downtown. GPLETS, I guess substitute for TIF's to some extent.

Arizona cities are at a big disadvantage because the State collects so much of the sales tax @ 5.2% whereas in Colorado, for example, the state only collects 2.9% while the rest goes mostly to cities (or counties). With cities collecting the majority of sales tax it's so much easier for them to budget for longer term needs when they aren't subject to the whims of state politicians.

[TakeFive]

"Self-Driving Cars Are Already Getting Into Accidents"
Gizmoda's Got the Goods
5/11/15 by Kate Knibbs

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

"Self-Driving Cars Are Already Getting Into Accidents"
Gizmoda's Got the Goods
5/11/15 by Kate Knibbs

What's annoying about that article, and all the people and media outlets reporting on these accidents, is that they don't tell you that the accidents aren't the result of the self-driving cars themselves, but the result of humans operating the other cars involved. It's very misleading and frustrating that people hype this up so much to scare people. Thank god the media and internet weren't around when the Wright Brother's were testing the first airplanes....otherwise we would never be flying in the sky.

[PHXFlyer11]

Good to see record traffic after a couple of slow years since the recession. Looks like the extra gates that remodeled terminal 3 will bring will be needed in the future after all.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/20...sets-passenger-record-in-march/27200053/

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

What's annoying about that article, and all the people and media outlets reporting on these accidents, is that they don't tell...

I agree. I was just having fun with this mostly.

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Good to see record traffic after a couple of slow years since the recession. Looks like the extra gates that remodeled terminal 3 will bring will be needed in the future after all.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/travel/20...sets-passenger-record-in-march/27200053/

Stands to reason after the record setting spring baseball attendance this year.

I like what Phoenix is doing with Sky Harbor including the Sky Train and these ongoing improvements. Nationally, air passenger traffic has been trending higher. Soon enough I'd expect Sky Harbor to have some good out-sized growth and so now is a great time to get these projects done.