ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[ATLaffinity]

Porsche just gave $500k to Beltline.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

No kidding. I bet if he'd proposed something like Modera Morningside at Glenwood Park, it would have been overwhelmingly accepted.

It doesn't really make any sense to me at all...Glenwood Park was a new urbanist development with great planning, then he adds a massive mega center with a shit ton of surface parking when he could have made 2 or 3 apartment complexes with wrapped around parking and a grocery store at the base of one of those apartments.

I don't understand why everything great in Atlanta is always ruined or torn down.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

It doesn't really make any sense to me at all...Glenwood Park was a new urbanist development with great planning, then he adds a massive mega center with a shit ton of surface parking when he could have made 2 or 3 apartment complexes with wrapped around parking and a grocery store at the base of one of those apartments.

I don't understand why everything great in Atlanta is always ruined or torn down.

Can a big box store with no surface parking be viable in a suburb that lacks transit? With such a low population density I don't know if it would serve enough people to justify the cost of a garage. It seems like that type of design would only make economic sense in an area like Lenox or Midtown (like the Target on Peachtree or the Publix on West Peachtree).

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by ATLaffinity

Porsche just gave $500k to Beltline.

Porsche also received $10 million in property tax abatements to move to Aerotropolis from Sandy Springs..... $500K is .05% of that. It's a (further) tax write-off move for them meant to be disguised as a "gesture".

[ATLSkyPalaceOwner]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Porsche also received $10 million in property tax abatements to move to Aerotropolis from Sandy Springs..... $500K is .05% of that. It's a (further) tax write-off move for them meant to be disguised as a "gesture".

5%, not 0.05%.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

Porsche also received $10 million in property tax abatements to move to Aerotropolis from Sandy Springs..... $500K is .05% of that. It's a (further) tax write-off move for them meant to be disguised as a "gesture".

$500k is 5% of $10 million.

And who cares particularly if the money comes from a corporation that will ultimately deduct the donation from its taxes (as essentially all corporations and private citizens deduct large donations from their taxes)? In essence, the federal government is subsidizing a donation to the Beltline, just as it subsidizes donations to all manner of nonprofits (including things like churches and college football teams). Not sure why we need to be all snarky and skeptical of Porsche regarding this particular one.

Back on topic: isn't Porsche's new HQ building cool-looking?!

[Newnan_Eric]

By the way, y'all might be interested in this:

http://oxblue.com/open/TS/ThreeAlliance

[teejay]

Originally Posted by Pemgin

No kidding. I bet if he'd proposed something like Modera Morningside at Glenwood Park, it would have been overwhelmingly accepted.

I'm nervous about one aspect of Modera Morningside. Right now there are technically 3 northbound lanes on that stretch, with the right-most lane requiring a right turn onto Cheshire. Thus, you have two dedicated northbound travel lanes ("dedicated" b/c left turns aren't allowed during morning rush hour).

The site plans show that they're only going to leave one dedicated northbound lane. Although about 50 feet before the Cheshire intersection a left lane appears, it still means that everyone heading northbound past East Rock Springs has to queue up in a single lane.



This seems like a terrible idea. This stretch is already congested and, although I'm not a traffic engineer, I can't see how this is going to result in anything but traffic nightmares.

It's a terrible spot for street parallel parking anyways, so that idea seems silly regardless of traffic concerns.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

Can a big box store with no surface parking be viable in a suburb that lacks transit? With such a low population density I don't know if it would serve enough people to justify the cost of a garage. It seems like that type of design would only make economic sense in an area like Lenox or Midtown (like the Target on Peachtree or the Publix on West Peachtree).

This is NOT a suburban site-- but an historic neighborhood with a ton of density in nearby Glenwood Park and along Memorial Drive (Soon)-- No one intown wants this kind of suburban development. And yes decks will work here-- transit, of course would be even better--

[Verge]

Originally Posted by teejay

I'm nervous about one aspect of Modera Morningside. Right now there are technically 3 northbound lanes on that stretch, with the right-most lane requiring a right turn onto Cheshire. Thus, you have two dedicated northbound travel lanes ("dedicated" b/c left turns aren't allowed during morning rush hour).

The site plans show that they're only going to leave one dedicated northbound lane. Although about 50 feet before the Cheshire intersection a left lane appears, it still means that everyone heading northbound past East Rock Springs has to queue up in a single lane.



This seems like a terrible idea. This stretch is already congested and, although I'm not a traffic engineer, I can't see how this is going to result in anything but traffic nightmares.

It's a terrible spot for street parallel parking anyways, so that idea seems silly regardless of traffic concerns.

Yes, of course, the city has complete say so over all road changes-- and every design is vetted by traffic engineers--

[Atlanta3000]

Fuqua Decatur

Fuqua Development could break ground this fall on the first of 450 apartments and 95,000 square feet of retail. It could begin delivering the first units and retail in the project by early 2017.
Fuqua already received zoning for the redevelopment of about six acres at Scott and North Decatur Road. It plans to break ground on 250 apartments and about 8,000 square feet of retail there in June and deliver the first units in 14 months.

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/print...ent-transforming-north-decatur-area.html

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by ATLSkyPalaceOwner

5%, not 0.05%.

HAHA...thanks for the correction...my coffee hadn't kicked in yet.

[arctk2014]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

$500k is 5% of $10 million.

And who cares particularly if the money comes from a corporation that will ultimately deduct the donation from its taxes (as essentially all corporations and private citizens deduct large donations from their taxes)? In essence, the federal government is subsidizing a donation to the Beltline, just as it subsidizes donations to all manner of nonprofits (including things like churches and college football teams). Not sure why we need to be all snarky and skeptical of Porsche regarding this particular one.

Back on topic: isn't Porsche's new HQ building cool-looking?!

I'll admit I didn't have my coffee yet so my math was off...but my point wasn't trying to be snarky just putting out the forethought that they're just shuffling money around to make themselves look better.

The $10million proeprty tax abatment wasn't coming from the federal government..... it was coming out of the city's potential property taxes - which contribute to the BeltLine as well.

It's a nice gesture but $10million would have been better than $500K if it were all going toward the BeltLine - which may or may not have a HUGE impact since we all know that $10million would have been divided up to other coffers that the city would potentially mishandle.

Regardless the Porsche North American HQ is underwhelming - cool experience - but I've seen more exciting shopping malls in eastern Europe than their HQ. Luckily cool is not quantifiable... and I'll let the NYT architectural critic settle that argument.

[PremierAtlanta]

Arctk2014, you make valid points however we must look at the big picture.

First: metro Atlanta is now the home to TWO NA HQ of major German automakers. This again is a testament to the value of Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. Both HQ cost at least $100 million or more to build. That is a major investment in the metro Atlanta area...as well as 1000's of new jobs both directly and indirectly.

Second: Porsche AG is spearheading the development of the Aerotropolis Atlanta complex. Sometimes you have to spend money to make money. This is one of those instances where having such a well known international company anchor such a major development near the airport is crucial. The fact that they are giving money back to the Beltline is amazing and charitable. They didn't have to give one dime back. The $10 million dollar tax abatement would be mute had Porsche AG decided to build its NA HQ in Sandy Springs. How long would the Aerotropolis Atlanta have languished as merely a dream?

The other development that is sure to follow will more than add to the coffers of the Atlanta Beltline.

Third: If you have ever seen the HQ of Porsche in Stuttgart, the new one at Aerotropolis Atlanta looks really similar. All things considered, I think this is a win-win for both Porsche and the City of Atlanta. Porsche benefits from having almost 100 million passengers a year flying over their headquarters (free advertisement) and the city benefits from finally having meaningful development at the Aerotropolis development. This is a challenged location with great potential.

[PremierAtlanta]

Originally Posted by Newnan_Eric

By the way, y'all might be interested in this:

http://oxblue.com/open/TS/ThreeAlliance

Great find Newnan_Eric. Thanks so much.


Also, thank you GeorgiaPeanuts for the update on 22 14th Street. I guess I asked about it so much that Mr. Perez finally decided to start the permitting process. I am really hoping that Related can give us something architecturally amazing at their Buckhead proposal akin to something you may find in Miami.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Verge

This is NOT a suburban site-- but an historic neighborhood with a ton of density in nearby Glenwood Park and along Memorial Drive (Soon)-- No one intown wants this kind of suburban development. And yes decks will work here-- transit, of course would be even better--

I don't know, man... census data shows population density in places like Midtown being 5-10x higher than Glenwood. That's not a small difference. I can't think of any area with that low of a density that has the kind of urban development being pined for, but maybe I'm forgetting one. Maybe it's bad design, maybe it's economic reality. Hard saying.

[pawelra]

NCR Midtown campus could break ground in early 2016

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/real_...-campus-could-break-ground-in-early.html

[Verge]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

I don't know, man... census data shows population density in places like Midtown being 5-10x higher than Glenwood. That's not a small difference. I can't think of any area with that low of a density that has the kind of urban development being pined for, but maybe I'm forgetting one. Maybe it's bad design, maybe it's economic reality. Hard saying.

But I'm afraid its not economic reality-- There are plenty of projects on the eastside, westside and in between that are urban in character and design-- Look at Moderna on Piedmont or Inman Quarters all in medium density areas every bit the equal of Grant Park. And just look at Avalon-- urbanism (albeit poorly designed) in low density Alpharetta--Everything that is being planned a mile away on Memorial Drive has also followed these patterns-- I work with developers and design these things all of the time, believe me when I say there is no real excuse for what Fuqua did in Grant Park/ Ormewood or what he continues to do elsewhere

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

Originally Posted by Verge

But I'm afraid its not economic reality-- There are plenty of projects on the eastside, westside and in between that are urban in character and design-- Look at Moderna on Piedmont or Inman Quarters all in medium density areas every bit the equal of Grant Park. And just look at Avalon-- urbanism (albeit poorly designed) in low density Alpharetta--Everything that is being planned a mile away on Memorial Drive has also followed these patterns-- I work with developers and design these things all of the time, believe me when I say there is no real excuse for what Fuqua did in Grant Park/ Ormewood or what he continues to do elsewhere

I know Fuqua develops these, but isn't he driven by the clients desires. In this case Kroger or in the original case a Walmart; people should blame the anchor tenant as well. It seems the reason Modera Morningside is an urban format is because of Mill Creek/Sprouts desire and land contraints

[PremierAtlanta]

Originally Posted by pawelra

NCR Midtown campus could break ground in early 2016

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/real_...-campus-could-break-ground-in-early.html

This is the best development news THIS WEEK! Now Atlanta3000 can rest easy this weekend. We have a start date of the second quarter of 2016. Considering the magnitude of this development, I think this is amazing. Q2 of 2016 will be here before we know it. What's most important is that this means that 4000 additional jobs are living the suburbs for intown.

While I'm talking about Midtown....

Portman Holding emerges as front-runner to develop Tech's HPC Project.

Portman Holdings has emerged as the front-runner to develop a $300 million mixed-use project for Georgia Tech in Midtown’s Technology Square.
Portman was competing for the project against another longtime Atlanta real estate company, Cousins Properties Inc. The project would rise over Tech Square on the site that housed the Crum & Forster building at 4th and Spring streets. It would add up to 750,000 square feet of new development to Tech Square, including a new 600,000-square-foot office building anchored by Georgia Tech, and a High Performance Computing Center.

Source:http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/real_...holdings-emerges-as-front-runner-to.html


The momentum in Midtown is really building. Pun intended.