Southeast Transitway/Southeast LRT | ~17 Stations | $2 Billion | Proposed

[ClaytonA]

Isn't the Operating and Maintenance (OMC) facility going to be in the SE? There isn't really any or much room in the north. Maybe the Highland Golf Course space? It's been sold to a developer though. Or maybe Aurora or maybe the in new community Keystone north of Stoney Trail.

For the phases upgrading from buses to rail, the north portion of SELRT to the OMC would have to go in even if they want to do a portion of the NCLRT. I'd expect to see it go from DouglasGlen to the stop west of MacLeod Trail. Hmm-if it needs to be grade seperated over or under that busy couplet you might be right, and only to 4th St SE, but that's a pretty bad temporary terminus in terms of connectivity. I wonder if the City how they'd do that? If they wanted to avoid tunnelling, they could lower MacLeod and 1st St by extending the underpass beneath the CPR to beneath 10th Ave as well.

[UofC.engineer]

Looks like the location of the station has moved from the original plan.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...ine/green-line-ramsay-revised-routes.pdf

Once again, I think 11th street is grossly over sized for the amount of auto traffic that uses it. I would like to see a cycle track and/or bigger sidewalks in the proposed design. IMHO I think two lanes would suffice for this road.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Looks like the location of the station has moved from the original plan.

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...ine/green-line-ramsay-revised-routes.pdf

Once again, I think 11th street is grossly over sized for the amount of auto traffic that uses it. I would like to see a cycle track and/or bigger sidewalks in the proposed design. IMHO I think two lanes would suffice for this road.

That bridge station will look pretty badass, and would be a really cool element in that part of town!

I agree with you that 11th St doesn't need as much capacity as it has, but it definitely needs improved sidewalks and cycling infrastructure. A fair amount of people from Inglewood/Ramsay (and soon EV) enjoy going to Crossroads Market, and improvements would make a non-car, non-transit trip tolerable (if not enjoyable with some 11th St development). I hope the city is motivated to eventually prove residents wrong, that 4 lanes are not required here.

Even if they do maintain 4 lanes, though, they could (and should) narrow them to implement a separated bike lane.

[UofC.engineer]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

That bridge station will look pretty badass, and would be a really cool element in that part of town!

I agree with you that 11th St doesn't need as much capacity as it has, but it definitely needs improved sidewalks and cycling infrastructure. A fair amount of people from Inglewood/Ramsay (and soon EV) enjoy going to Crossroads Market, and improvements would make a non-car, non-transit trip tolerable (if not enjoyable with some 11th St development). I hope the city is motivated to eventually prove residents wrong, that 4 lanes are not required here.

Even if they do maintain 4 lanes, though, they could (and should) narrow them to implement a separated bike lane.

Yes, unfortunately the residents are demanding that 4 lanes be retained. If 4 lanes remain I hope the city can do something to slow down auto traffic. I notice on Edmonton trail cars fly by at 60-70km/h and are only a mere couple feet from the sidewalk.

[MasterG]

Originally Posted by UofC.engineer

Yes, unfortunately the residents are demanding that 4 lanes be retained. If 4 lanes remain I hope the city can do something to slow down auto traffic. I notice on Edmonton trail cars fly by at 60-70km/h and are only a mere couple feet from the sidewalk.

It's amazing how hard it is for the city to allocate space efficiently.

[ByeByeBaby]

Originally Posted by MasterG

It's amazing how hard it is for the city to allocate space efficiently.

The problem - and in my experience this seems to be more common in transportation than other fields - is that people are asking for the wrong things, and it's hard to tell them otherwise. The residents of Ramsay aren't transportation engineers, and it's ridiculous for the City to treat them like they are. What the residents are allowed to want - whether or not it's reasonable is another thing - is to have no increase in traffic, or no delays on 11th St. How many lanes are needed to accomplish that is another thing entirely.

It's like I go to a restaurant and order a steak, to be cooked for 2 1/2 minutes per side on a charcoal grill. I ask for the outcome - medium rare - and the professional in the kitchen does what they need to do to get it to me. Or I go to a doctor and dictate a medical procedure to be done to me, rather than discussing my symptoms and why they are problems.

The City should be asking the residents what outcomes they want from the project, and then developing solutions that lead to those outcomes, rather than having the residents play amateur traffic engineer on nearby roads.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

The problem - and in my experience this seems to be more common in transportation than other fields - is that people are asking for the wrong things, and it's hard to tell them otherwise. The residents of Ramsay aren't transportation engineers, and it's ridiculous for the City to treat them like they are. What the residents are allowed to want - whether or not it's reasonable is another thing - is to have no increase in traffic, or no delays on 11th St. How many lanes are needed to accomplish that is another thing entirely.

It's like I go to a restaurant and order a steak, to be cooked for 2 1/2 minutes per side on a charcoal grill. I ask for the outcome - medium rare - and the professional in the kitchen does what they need to do to get it to me. Or I go to a doctor and dictate a medical procedure to be done to me, rather than discussing my symptoms and why they are problems.

The City should be asking the residents what outcomes they want from the project, and then developing solutions that lead to those outcomes, rather than having the residents play amateur traffic engineer on nearby roads.

I think this is key and everytime I hear Rollin Stanley speak he mentions this too. Additionally the new planning system is based around this. That said this thought process has not reached other departments (including transit) in the city.

Another point that should be made is we need to start counting user on our road right of ways. We are great at counting cars on a road but we don't count the number of people walking, on bikes or on buses. This was again very clear at the open house for the 4th St Mainstreets event last night, the transportation board had a map showing vehicle volume and a bus route map, but no documentation as to the number of users on the road. This comes back to measuring what you care about and caring what you measure.

[Fuzz]

Hopefully when(if?) the transit connect system gets implemented they can actually track the number of people getting on buses. I guess they wouldn't know of people getting off though.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby

The residents of Ramsay aren't transportation engineers, and it's ridiculous for the City to treat them like they are. What the residents are allowed to want - whether or not it's reasonable is another thing - is to have no increase in traffic, or no delays on 11th St. How many lanes are needed to accomplish that is another thing entirely.

Hear, hear!! Couldn't agree more with your post - time to revise how the city has these conversations. Should all be outcomes-based. Otherwise the city is stuck with implementing structure that they know will take away from the usefulness and pleasantness of a space.

[milomilo]

That bridge solution is better in every conceivable way than the at grade solution - I'm pretty impressed.

CP will probably block it just for fun though.

[lineman]

The main reason why I hate the on-street option is that we lose that superblend feeds building. The station integrated with the overhead is also way cooler.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by lineman

The main reason why I hate the on-street option is that we lose that superblend feeds building. The station integrated with the overhead is also way cooler.

Agreed, the loss of the historic buildings is not an acceptable trade off. That said I think the at grade option could be completed without taking any buildings out if 11th was to become a 2 lane road.

[Spring2008]

Anybody have an up to date map of the station locations. I'm particularly curious about the Vic park and Inglewood stations, this could spark a lot of new development in under-utilized areas of the inner-city.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by Spring2008

Anybody have an up to date map of the station locations. I'm particularly curious about the Vic park and Inglewood stations, this could spark a lot of new development in under-utilized areas of the inner-city.

I actually sent an email to the Green Line team at the end of last week asking them to draw the Green Line (and station placements) out on Google Maps so people can get a better idea of how it will look without digging through an old PDF file or piecing together different reports.

Will let you know when they get back to me.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I actually sent an email to the Green Line team at the end of last week asking them to draw the Green Line (and station placements) out on Google Maps so people can get a better idea of how it will look without digging through an old PDF file or piecing together different reports.

Will let you know when they get back to me.

I actually did the same a few months back to these guys (not sure that's who you're talking about) and they said this:

Originally Posted by Green Line

Thank you for reaching out to contact us and the positive feedback about our website. We are indeed working on a new version of our Greenline map as well as an update to our NCLRT page to reflect the changes that have gone on over the last few months. We are hoping to have the revision up and running in the next few weeks.

I'm not 100% sure what progress was made TBH but it does look pretty accurate with what we know now.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I actually did the same a few months back to these guys (not sure that's who you're talking about) and they said this:



I'm not 100% sure what progress was made TBH but it does look pretty accurate with what we know now.

I used the "email us" button at the bottom of this page and got a direct email address:

http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/Pages/Transit-projects/Green-line/home.aspx

[outoftheice]

Originally Posted by milomilo

I actually did the same a few months back to these guys (not sure that's who you're talking about) and they said this:



I'm not 100% sure what progress was made TBH but it does look pretty accurate with what we know now.

The update of the website has now been complete. Still not 100% inclusive of all the latest changes (as things with the Green Line SE station areas are essentially changing daily as the public open house project works its way through) but it does do a pretty good job of putting all the information for both the Green Line N and Green Line SE in one spot.

http://www.lrtonthegreen.ca/about-the-green-line/

The official City of Calgary project website also does a pretty good job at keeping things updated but is currently missing a lot of content on the Green Line N project.

http://www.calgary.ca/greenline

[milomilo]

Great!

Looking at that map it has to be said though, the SE line goes through a whole lot of nothing. The population in catchment areas of stations is almost non existent between Ramsay and Mckenzie Towne.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by milomilo

Great!

Looking at that map it has to be said though, the SE line goes through a whole lot of nothing. The population in catchment areas of stations is almost non existent between Ramsay and Mckenzie Towne.

The same could be said for Downtown if that's your argument. The point is the SE is the second largest employment area in the city. I know many on here seem to think it's just an exurb or something not worth the city's attention, but pretending that won't change the facts. With QP ramping up it's only going to increase in importance.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

The same could be said for Downtown if that's your argument. The point is the SE is the second largest employment area in the city. I know many on here seem to think it's just an exurb or something not worth the city's attention, but pretending that won't change the facts. With QP ramping up it's only going to increase in importance.

But downtown has a much higher concentration of jobs, and being central means that it is on average the closest to people on all LRT lines. The SE industrial area's jobs are more spread out and may require a transfer to a bus to get to their final destination. For most people working in those industrial areas (myself included, actually), the only viable option to get to work remains driving (or cycling).