Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 4

[EPdesign]

Just this change by Broadway Media makes walking past that building at night so much more interesting

[Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

I am aware of that. I said the base. Look at this comparison in our own city



vs




That wall...UGH!!!!!!!!!!!

What is the point of having bases that flashy if there is no tower being built on top of it or if it's not incorporated into a similar surrounding area such as this will be with LA Live?

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Future_Mayor

What is the point of having bases that flashy if there is no tower being built on top of it or if it's not incorporated into a similar surrounding area such as this will be with LA Live?

Maybe I shouldn't have used that example since it's the atmosphere I'm trying to talk about. You don't need towers to create something exciting

[Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Maybe I shouldn't have used that example since it's the atmosphere I'm trying to talk about. You don't need towers to create something exciting

I understand you don't need a tower for something like that. My point is why build that if it's going to be the only thing that flashy, bright, and attention grabbing, and if it's going to be simply a stand alone structure by itself. There is nothing in downtown SLC that has a street, or an entertainment district with that much night life or with bright neon signs or with bar after bar on a single street that attracts that type of night life that has buildings and bright lights such as that. You truly only find this in places such as...

16th street in Denver
6th street in Austin
Bourbon street in New Orleans
LA Live in Los Angeles
Sunset Blvd in West Hollywood
New York City, especially at Times Square
Miami Beach
Las Vegas strip

Also Utah's laws and demographic make it extremely hard to have a nightlife that flashy, so to speak, in SLC.

[Future_Mayor]

SLC can't even support a Hard Rock Cafe...there is no way SLC could support a full blown entertainment district, or even something similar to 16th street in Denver, as you have mentioned EP Design.

[EPdesign]

double post

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Future_Mayor

SLC can't even support a Hard Rock Cafe...there is no way SLC could support a full blown entertainment district, or even something similar to 16th street in Denver, as you have mentioned EP Design.

I don't know. Sugar house does pretty well for its self. It's not flashy but people like the feel. It has restaurants and bars and a grocery store and etc and etc......

The gateway can provided that in a single location. And why not. Salt lake prob would not allow a developer to create something like what I proposed but it doesn't mean it wouldn't work. Maybe they problem is that it would. look at pierpont ave. That place gets pretty happening and it's only two bars with another three close by.

[Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

I don't know. Sugar house does pretty well for its self. It's not flashy but people like the feel. It has restaurants and bars and a grocery store and etc and etc......

Every single city has restaurants, bars, a grocery store, in their city. There is nothing too amazing about that in itself. Sugarhouse is a cool little area, but it's still in SLC. So it has to follow the strict laws the are in place that limit a nightlife with true entertainment. True entertainment that you are referring to does not exist in Sugarhouse...nor will it ever be able to support it. The liquor laws themselves here limit having a single street with full blown nightlife. So good luck wanting to have a flown blown nightlife in SLC.

[EPdesign]

Originally Posted by Future_Mayor

Every single city has restaurants, bars, a grocery store, in their city. There is nothing too amazing about that in itself. Sugarhouse is a cool little area, but it's still in SLC. So it has to follow the strict laws the are in place that limit a nightlife with true entertainment. True entertainment that you are referring to does not exist in Sugarhouse...nor will it ever be able to support it. The liquor laws themselves here limit having a single street with full blown nightlife. So good luck wanting to have a flown blown nightlife in SLC.

Funny. Although not centralized, salt lake does have a night life. salt lake has tons of cool areas For young adults to play. With your logic why would we bother doing anything. Why bother going taller if we have so much open space. Why bother building a transit system. Why bother building another theater downtown when there is already one that's dilapidated. Why bother with anything. You know why. Because Utah's current state is not forever. yea. There are laws and zoning but those can be changed. That's why it's people with vision that change the world. even here in Utah.

[Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Funny. Although not centralized, salt lake does have a night life. salt lake has tons of cool areas For young adults to play. With your logic why would we bother doing anything. Why bother going taller if we have so much open space. Why bother building a transit system. Why bother building another theater downtown when there is already one that's dilapidated. Why bother with anything. You know why. Because Utah's current state is not forever. yea. There are laws and zoning but those can be changed. That's why it's people with vision that change the world. even here in Utah.

Yes and Boise, Des Moines, and Tulsa have a nightlife as well. SLC does not have the population, demographic, and the type of tourist visiting that supports that type of nightlife and entertainment district. I'm pretty sure the tourist that visit Temple Square are not the ones that would want to bar hop or stay out late walking around an entertainment district that you are referring to. I'm pretty sure those tourist are up in Park City and that is in the dead of winter. Those tourist are there to ski. Tourist don't come to SLC to experience a night life. They come here with their families in mini vans, or are retired people wanting to visit " beautiful, peaceful, Temple Square." If someone wants to experience a true nightlife while in SLC, well they'll have to quickly realize they'll have to make some time in their trip to either take a quick flight or drive down the 15 and visit Vegas.

[Future_Mayor]

It's not a bad thing or a bash on SLC that it cannot support a true entertainment district or an an amazing nightlife that Los Angeles, New Orleans, Austin, New York, Miami, Vegas have. Very few cities can. It would simply be a waste of time and money to try and develope an entertainment district in SLC.

[Ironweed]

Some moroon on this site has lost all credibility with me. He ought to be expelled. Best regards to the 'real and original' Future Mayor.

[delts145]

Originally Posted by Future_Mayor

Nothing but respect for you, on my end.

At the very least, change the 'Future' name to something more your own creation. While your intentions might be respectful, the result is anything but.

I just don't understand why you are wanting to implode like this. Don't you understand how bizarre this is? It would be a shame to have to get the moderators involved, but I know none of them would appreciate having their name and or avatar hijacked by someone in their own respective forum. I think this has to be one of the weirdest actions I've seen since I joined almost ten years ago. I guess you could say this gives trolling a whole new angle......

[delts145]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Funny. Although not centralized, salt lake does have a night life. salt lake has tons of cool areas For young adults to play. With your logic why would we bother doing anything. Why bother going taller if we have so much open space. Why bother building a transit system. Why bother building another theater downtown when there is already one that's dilapidated. Why bother with anything. You know why. Because Utah's current state is not forever. yea. There are laws and zoning but those can be changed. That's why it's people with vision that change the world. even here in Utah.

EPdesign, I totally get what you are saying, and very much agree with your train of thought. I live within a stones throw of L.A. Live. There are many aspects of it that could be incorporated into Salt Lake City's Convention Center environs, that would be more than positive for Salt Lake. If LumberJack actually knew L.A. Live up close, he would realize that it is not about a bawdy bar district or Vegas on steroids. It's actually very classy in most respects and at many levels would fit in well with an expanded offering on one of the streets behind the Convention Center and CCH. It would help with that much needed connection between West Temple and Gateway. Given a respectable CCH, Salt Lake City is more than capable of drawing the number of major conventions that would greatly augment the attendance of an L.A. Live style venue. There are a myriad of reasons why most convention centers could not compete with a full blown SLC offering. Anyone, who doesn't understand that has a very shallow vision of Salt Lake's easily attainable potential at this time in it's evolution. Given a major CCH, and an expansion of competitive CC bullet points, Salt Lake City is able to out compete most markets that are even larger in population. I also think that the new Figueroa Main Tower design, which you posted would be an excellent point of reference for Salt Lake's future CCH design, as would also the design of the new Marriott/Ritz CCH here in L.A. Much more so than a Phoenix style monstrosity.


This pic below that you posted is a perfect example of one of the MAJOR reasons that the Metro is passing Gateway by. I cannot even begin to describe how bland and unattractive this is. The massing is a good base to start from but the aesthetic finish never was point on, even when it was new. Now that the Metro shopping game has been upgraded considerably by new options, is it any wonder that people have no interest in traveling out of their way to frequent Gateway. Even the sidewalks and street itself lacks any semblance of warmth or charm. What is wrong with these owners? Basic Lifestyle Center 101 would dictate some sort of attractive Euro style stone or pavers at the very least...And not faux crap, but REAL stone pavers, much as we see at CCC, or as we would see at a new shopping development in one of Italy's or Germany's major towns.

I've been complaining about that blank theater wall for years now. At the very least they could create some dramatic, elegant style public art of Hollywood Icons like Monroe, Gable, Wayne etc. Even something Utah scenic specific, given the many iconic films filled with Hollywood legends, that were produced in Utah during the golden era of film.

I do believe that it would be better for Gateway to follow a more elegant Euro-style village hub mix and aesthetic, that draws first from it's immediate demographic. Subsequently, by shear virtue of it's charm, it would also attract the greater metro and the prized ever increasing tourist numbers. However, I also believe that many aspects of L.A. Live would go a long way in helping to connect the Convention Center with Gateway. Most aspects of L.A. Live are very much needed and doable in the very attractive Salt Lake market, as long as that new CCH is realized and the subsequent increase in large bookings follow suit.

Current Gateway? Let's face it, we have much the same situation as we did with the previous owners of Trolley Square. We need a new owner who has both a Larry Milleresque passion for Salt Lake City, and deep enough pockets to ride out the time that it takes to see a return on their investment.

[Future_Mayor]

I agree delts with you that Gateway needs a facelift. But CCC already has that European type atmosphere that you are wanting Gatway to resemble. We all know that SLC cannot support two major malls, so your wishful thinking and logic is not realistic. I think Gateway is the new Crossroads mall. I think it's going to struggle for years, remain vacant, continue to be run down and be outdated. With that it's going to be at least a decade before someone buys it and then hopefully tears it down. I think its best option at this point is to be demolished, but that is years away.

I think having the RSL stadium and the aquarium would have been a huge boost for the Gateway area, but unfortunately those two went south to the suburbs.

[Makid]

I think the additional housing in the area will be the biggest boost to the Gateway area.

Outside of that, there are a few things that they could do:

1> Add a grocery store. The best and most likely would be something like Wal-Mart Neighborhood. It is a smaller grocery store/pharmacy and would be able to fit within floor plans provided that the SLC Council allowed a larger retailer in the Gateway.

2> Blank Wall advertising. This would be one of the best and cheapest ways to improve the overall look of the area. The Gateway owners could sell/lease space on the blank walls to advertisers/companies that would like to utilize the space to market to those at the Gateway. This could be anything. Think Times Square but more on the SL Market. This could be at 4 or more flashy electronic billboards in the area. This would be extra revenue to the owners to further spruce up the area. This would be allowed in the current SLC zoning (might need a waiver for many together but I think it would be granted).

3> Focus on Enterntainment. With the addition of a grocery store, this will pull the local residents to the gateway. The remaining spots could and should be used for local entertainment options that can pull in both local residents (6 blocks) as well as a larger radius (upto 15 miles). This should include a bowling alley, a brew-pub (Squatters/Redrock second location or any of the same style.), an actual neighborhood bar/sports bar with limited food options. This would give the locals a local watering hole.

Current city zoning does allow for multiple bars to be located on the same block so this would fit in the Gateway.

4> Add a discount retailer/Outlets Khols, JC-Penny, Ross would do good. Again, this would need the City to allow a waiver for this size.

Doing the above would increase traffic from local residents but also draw those in the vicinity (15 mile radius). This would also not compete directly against City Creek but enhance it and provide a reason to go between the 2 locations.

The last thing that would be a good draw for people and would further enhance the area would be if ABC/CW or Fox moved their news studios to the Gateway. They would be able to put up a large LED TV to show current news stories as well as their news broadcasts. This can provide news to those at the Gateway but it would also allow for live shots of the Gateway during news broadcasts (KUTV views of Main).

This would increase the number of vested parties in the success of the Gateway while also bringing another news set to the downtown area. This would also fit in well with #2 above.

All of these suggestions could be done easily and mostly cheaply.

The city would need to grant a single waiver in allowing the Gateway district to contain grocery/retail up to 35,000 sq ft, even that might be high. If not currently allowed, allow for multiple electronic billboards attached to the blank walls of the current structures. Lastly they could offer an incentive for a news studio to be built at the Gateway.

This would get the Gateway going quickly and they would start to see a resurgence of visitors. This will continue to increase as more residential is built in the nearby.

The bones and muscles are there, they just need to be used differently then they have been in the past.

On the CCH subject, no news from any of my contacts (not good nor bad just no news). As we are nearing the end of the month (2 more days), if Omni doesn't come through shortly, expect a rapid refiring of the RFP with some modifications.

The goal is still to get ground breaking this year regardless of Omni or not.

I can say that the occupancy rates for the downtown hotels are at the highest they have been in years. The Average occupancy is closer to 75% now with more spikes over 90% occupancy than ever. It is happening monthly or more where before it was only OR that pushed up occupancy that high, outside of the Olympics.

So the need is coming even more urgent for a large hotel. A CCH won't decrease the occupancy much due to the extra conventions that would come through.

What else these number provide is that if they hold steady with a CCH, another hotel will come quickly as well as the need to expand the convention center due to increased demand (it is knocking at that level already this year).

[Future Mayor]

Originally Posted by EPdesign

Here is that bowling alley - Future Mayor. The original.

Yeah I figured it would be something like that. This is my point of reference for an upscale bowling alley, The Corner Alley in Downtown Cleveland. I think one of these could be a huge success in The Gateway.


Image from www.east4thstreet.com

[Future_Mayor]

Originally Posted by Future Mayor

Yeah I figured it would be something like that. This is my point of reference for an upscale bowling alley, The Corner Alley in Downtown Cleveland. I think one of these could be a huge success in The Gateway.


Image from www.east4thstreet.com

I agree Future Mayor. We definitely need more upscale bowling alleys in the Salt Lake area, especially downtown SLC. Fat Cats and All-Star Lanes are not the types that will attract people downtown to bowl.

[Orlando]

Lumberjack, I don't get it. Why are you copying Future Mayor? Were you annoyed by his comments, and in return you are mimicking his avatar and name?

[billbillbillbill]

Have any of you been to the Pins & Ales Bowling/Night Club at the Draper All Star Lanes. It is almost exactly like those pictures with the bar, couches for bowling, and a stage. Something like this at the Gateway would be awesome.