TriMet/Metro Southwest Corridor Planning (Portland to Bridgeport Village)

[bvpcvm]

You mean Kings Hill.

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by babs

At the very least, get rid of the Goose Hollow station.

Goose Hollow is at the portal and is very well placed. It's the Kings Hill Station that is redundant and is only there because the lazy f**ks at the MAC can't walk one more block over to the Providence Park Station.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by cityscapes

I agree with you that a tunnel won't happen in the near future but I'm almost positive that it would shave off more than a few minutes. MAX goes painfully slow from the moment it gets off the I-84 alignment until it goes into the tunnel.

It takes 23 minutes to get from the Goose Hollow stop to the Lloyd Center stop.

Originally Posted by 65MAX

Goose Hollow is at the portal and is very well placed. It's the Kings Hill Station that is redundant and is only there because the lazy f**ks at the MAC can't walk one more block over to the Providence Park Station.

That would shave off maybe a minute or two of the 23 minutes it takes to get through downtown and the Lloyd District.

[babs]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

You mean Kings Hill.

You're correct. My error.

[babs]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

That would shave off maybe a minute or two of the 23 minutes it takes to get through downtown and the Lloyd District.

It would be first part of a plan. Combining the Convention Center and Rose Quarter stations would be the next piece. Doing something with the Steel Bridge should also be part of it as well. A minute here, a minute there and we have some real time savings.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by babs

It would be first part of a plan. Combining the Convention Center and Rose Quarter stations would be the next piece. Doing something with the Steel Bridge should also be part of it as well. A minute here, a minute there and we have some real time savings.

But how much are those few minutes worth? Though I do agree that something will eventually need to be done with the Steel Bridge, my guess is we will be looking at another new transit bridge on the north end of downtown.

[bvpcvm]

Kings Hill isn't the only one that could go. You could eliminate Pioneer Place as well, or merge it with the one on 2nd Ave; you could combine Skidmore Fountain and Old Town; you could get rid of Holladay Park altogether. Altogether you've just saved 8-10 minutes. Add another minute if they can speed up trains over the Steel Bridge.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by bvpcvm

Kings Hill isn't the only one that could go. You could eliminate Pioneer Place as well, or merge it with the one on 2nd Ave; you could combine Skidmore Fountain and Old Town; you could get rid of Holladay Park altogether. Altogether you've just saved 8-10 minutes. Add another minute if they can speed up trains over the Steel Bridge.

And by doing that, you take away a number of destination stops downtown and making it less useful for people going downtown. I always ask this, how many people commute through downtown?

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

And by doing that, you take away a number of destination stops downtown and making it less useful for people going downtown. I always ask this, how many people commute through downtown?

A lot.

The question you should be asking is "How many MORE people would commute through Downtown if it didn't take so f***ing long to get from Goose Hollow to Holladay Park?"

[Photogeric]

There's nothing wrong with getting rid of a couple completely redundant stops like the rose quarter/convention center duo. Just keep one. Same goes for the couple next to Providence Park

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

A lot.

The question you should be asking is "How many MORE people would commute through Downtown if it didn't take so f***ing long to get from Goose Hollow to Holladay Park?"

I meant factually how many, not how many we think commute from one side of the metro to the other side that don't need to get off downtown. Though this being the SW Corridor, we should probably be letting this topic go because it really doesn't belong here.

[cityscapes]

To compare, Seattle's Link Light Rail goes through downtown Seattle in a grand total of 7 minutes via the transit tunnel which has four stations. There is no need for MAX to run like a streetcar through downtown with so many frequent stops.


If Portland had the ability to run longer trains many of these stops could be combined as a longer train would stretch from nearly one stop to another since the spacing is so unnecessarily close in Lloyd and Downtown.

[hat]

Originally Posted by cityscapes

To compare, Seattle's Link Light Rail goes through downtown Seattle in a grand total of 7 minutes via the transit tunnel which has four stations. There is no need for MAX to run like a streetcar through downtown with so many frequent stops.


If Portland had the ability to run longer trains many of these stops could be combined as a longer train would stretch from nearly one stop to another since the spacing is so unnecessarily close in Lloyd and Downtown.

Periodically, this forum goes through the same, inevitable thread. Yes, for sure, it would be fantastic (and lead to much more ridership) if Pland had a subway downtown.

But comparing it so Seattle is difficult. Seattle had plenty of underground space just below the streets because of its artificial (man-made) underground (very interesting history btw) which remained after someone overturned a glue pot caught fire. Suffice it to say Seattle had a really easy time building the transit tunnel (done with the cut-and-cover method in the 80s). Much different situation than their current kerfuffle.

Portland, on the other hand, must deal with the Willamette if it is to endeavor to build a subway. That means it has to go pretty deep (40ft at some parts). The grade change, along with connections means a lot of moola. I think it's worth the multiple billions (honestly). It's been done sort of. I'm speaking of the big dig, which turned our river from brown to just a little tan. But the real problem... yep, you guessed it, is persuading 95% of the rest of the metro area how to use cars only sometimes.

[bvpcvm]

Tunnel or not, you could still combine a few stops. I seriously doubt that combining pioneer sq and pioneer pl - meaning some ppl might have to walk s total of one block further - would impact ridership negatively. It's hardly "skipping" destinations.

[2oh1]

You guys are hilarious.

Eliminate downtown MAX stops? Pick one to eliminate or move and watch the idea get shot down in an instant in real life. Wishing away MAX stops is like wishing the sky was green instead of blue.

Rose Quarter stops aren't going away either. Look at the money being poured into a convention center hotel. Do you really think THAT stop is going away? They intentionally built the convention center stop there 25 years ago. And the Moda Center stop certainly isn't going away. It's a transfer stop for the yellow line, and it gets a flood of use during events in the Rose Quarter. Wishing that stop away is pure silliness.

In a perfect world, MAX would be buried and the current MAX streets would turn into Streetcar lines going from Goose Hollow to Lloyd Center.

[bvpcvm]

I didn't say it would be easy (politically), but it would easier than building a tunnel.

[RED_PDXer]

Actually, I doubt it would be difficult to close stops in some locations. Those retail locations would probably be more desirable without people loitering while waiting for their train on the sidewalk. I'm guilty of leaning on those storefronts as much as the next person. There might also be room and a desire to put in some cafe seating in certain locations.

[tworivers]

People used to talk about closing the 7th Ave stop, too, and at one point that certainly seemed reasonable. Not happening now thanks to all the money AAT is pouring into those blocks...

[dubu]

Having a bunch of stops going up barbur blv wouldn't be too good on trains or not very efficient? Fitting a bike path and light rail in the road would be kinda hard too.

I'd rather see improvements to the the existing light rail like replacing wes

[maccoinnich]

Interactive public comment map has gone live. If you think the tunnel under Marquam Hill is a better idea that building along Barbur (or vice versa) this is your chance to make your voice heard.