Elly... Relax on my attempts of grammar on my phone, I am ESL but don't use that as excuse for what I say. Go after my statements not how they are crafted, its weak attempt to try attempt to devalue what people say. 
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Originally Posted by elly63
Know (sic) operating expenses? That sweet RC rental deal that people keep dredging up lapsed long ago. They would have a football operations budget like every other team that would have to be comparable to every other team re salaries etc.
And it's lose money, why can't people use that correctly?
Nobody has a clue about what the Argos budget is or how much money they might lose.
MLSE predicted profitability for the Argos and the business synergies they could apply would help aid in that cause. If this deal is as complicated as people say MLSE might be involved somehow, especially as they say they are contributing 10 million.
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Then MLSE would buy the team. The craziness that they would leave such a deal to the last minute of it was going to bring in money, especially
only for $20 million which they can sneeze out. People don't want to use logic when talking the Argos here. MLSE ran away when Braley was trolling for future GC revenues from them if they took on the team, it has been a dead horse since then. The MLSE board is only interested in the revenues from the Argos as a rent payer.
This new talk of Tanenbaum going for ownership solo is interesting as I wonder how that plays into position with the MLSE board? The press prints nonsense without thinking how this likley would not work within the MLSE boards own internal corporate policies (if it was that simple why wouldn't BELL/TSN simply by the Argos then?.. again the silly press just prints words without any through examination of what they are saying). From having experience in contracting to MLSE I can personally say the company is bloated and has a piece of paper for evrey little thing that happens there, just form my own experience my guess is they would not allow it (or have messy hoops in place) since again why wouldn't BELL/TSN just go rouge and buy the Argos themselves if no such corporate blockades exist?
MLSE is in the business of making money and nothing else. They ran away from the Argos deal because it does not make business sense. The 10 million.. again.. nothing from MLSE pockets, but from "multiple Grey Cups" in which they simply just transfer some profits over, which is odd to say that they would be getting the lions share of since they don't even own the team....
The pitch to the Exhibition Place board is because the Ex Place board is keen to a new rent holder adding to parking revenues (big money for Ex Place) for a decade plus into the future which is where much of the disclosure of the Argos dealings becomes public since Ex Place is a weird sort of "public" entity.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN
Have the Argos ever released a financial statement? Just asking, because all I ever hear is how much money they lose but where are the firm numbers? Until there is a financial statement everybody is just talking out of their ass.
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We have as much information as the press or anybody else. All you can go off is from good (leaked) information. On PTS they have stated a number of times that the Argos have only made money 3-4 for times in 25 years (Say what you want about Bobcat, he knows people and has hand his own hands in the CFL machine in his failed attempts at a Vegas team; Credible Stephen Brunt and others have echoed the same news, these dudes are not random staffers at the Sun or Star but actual credible sports heads with their own brands and stature, I will take Brunt's words over some random Toronto Sun Staffer. 1% Bobcat and his winery he rub shoulders with any important Toronto sports mogul all the time. It was him who mused and leaked that Leiweke wanted out of Toronto the minute he landed here and had to deal with the dysfunctional MLSE board, a few months later the word came out but Bobcat heard the rumors months before the fact.).
It has a been a passion play for many wealthy guys, The Cynamon and Sokolowski era was the last honest attempt to try and make things work. Those two dumped a lot of money and effort into the team but couldn't turn the corners, may of things of been different now with new TV money? Maybe... it would of kept them going much longer but they could never stabilize revenues to turn a profit - nobody doubts nobody for trying. Many have tried, but the fact is that even with throwing resources at the Argos they still don't make money.
Braley's Blunder:
When you have current Argos staff complaining to the press that Braley is running a no frills operation that can't succeeded economically you know what the deal is (supposedly Braley gutted 90% of the marketing staff and kept one or two people on). Braley has simply been minimizing his own losses in attempts to prepare a sale but in doing so he is hurting the franchise more as it has no staff to lure promotional and sponsorship dollars and build any traction in the market. Braley and his unreal expectations for the Argos in his price tag is what leaves the Argos only 7 days away from being technically homeless. Who is going to front the cost overruns if construction plans need to be altered last minute? MLSE had to work 24/7 to get BMO ready for TFC this season, so you are going to add more potential million to the already $10 million new ownership (likely, as somebody would) has to pay? Completely non-realistic.
The press response to this is to "build a statue for Braley" in his "honest attempts to save the team" when he has done nothing more then mix narcissism with greed in not being realistic with the Argos from a business sense and cutting his losses to ensure they get into stable hands.
This is mostly all Braley's doing as he has warped business idea in thinking you are entitled to make back the money you have missed out on during your time running the operations in a business.
Value is assessed on what the team is worth, not on him wanting to break even on his bets. The Argos have zero assets aside from clipboards and helmets, what valuation can be realistic in saying they are "worth" 10 million? (he wants 20 million - 10 million for the BMO upgrades). A team is worth what the next guy is willing to pay but there is no basis for Braley to hold the Argos for ransom for $10 million when they are not even worth $100 bucks, which is why nobody is sniffing around to buy the team seriously -
he is asking for too much. Period.
People need to get with reality with the situation. For all my sour words on the Argos it comes from looking for it for what it is. You have to do things right to make it work for this franchise. This isn't a reason why a Argos team can't find any traction in the GTA with close to 5 million people present in it, and chaining yourself to a predatory lease with MLSE isn't going to make this franchise flush with cash, the Argos have no options which is why this bad option looks so good.
Your better off going to Hamilton and sharing THF for a few years and slowly figuring out your own stadium situation where you can make all the revenues from game, parking, food, boxes, sponsorship, etc (I don't think Hamilton ownership would turn down that extra money). I can promise everybody that in 5 years time once the honeymoon wears off at BMO Field the Argos will complain that they can't make money in BMO because they are just living off gate revenue as Ex Place and MLSE will take all the rest of the revenue sources (MLSE is getting concession sales, etc, EX place is getting parking). Then what will the Argos do in that case if this doesn't work? They are essentially just trading situations for the hope that a change in a venue was a cure for their problem the whole time. I come from the position that more deeper problems exists from the Argos then simply where they play their 8-10 home games per year.
The Market:
There are structural problems in the Toronto central market towards the Argos and it goes back almost two decades now and will take much effort to repair. Toronto city proper is a wasteland for Argos football and with many reasons. It does not mean the Argos can't thrive but unless your willing to spend a generation to build up the fan-base from its roots with young kids and families in the city proper then it won't change anything. The demographics don't help either with Toronto being full rich bourgeois families who don't care for blue collar CFL football, Bohemian monied Hipsters who don't like sports period, Canadian professional transplants who already have their own CFL team they like, and new immigrant families who maybe just need to introduced to the game (Minor league football has its strengths in the inner suburbs of Toronto with many immigrant families having kids who play the game in school).
From somebody who works in the sports industry here in Toronto I have said many times that the Argos have no traction in this city. People like to poke fun at places like Atlanta at there terrible sports setting but Toronto can be just as bad in certain segments (well not as bad as Atlanta, better example would be L.A. and their lack of love for pro-football). Toronto just like Atlanta is a transplant city, more people are not from here then who are. I moved here from Saskatchewan as to why would I even think of ditching the Riders for the Argos, I am not a CFL fan in that sense but I will support the Riders always, I have no care for the Argos and neither does somebody who comes here from as close as Hamilton or as far as Kamloops. Grey Cup weekend I see more Ti-Cats jerseys around Toronto then I have seen Argo jerseys all year. It is typical to see that. People might even think I am trolling but I have still met more Rider fans in Toronto then Argo fans.
Toronto has had a dull relationship with football period. The NFL gets no traction here, CIS football has nothing to go off here, and neither does the CFL; it might just be that Toronto city proper does not care much for it. Nobody will say it though, but its clearly a possible reality. The glory days of the Argos being the toast of the town were almost 40 years ago. Many of those locals are in the suburbs now with an new influx present in the city who has no exposure to the team as the Argos have been a non-entity for almost 2 generations now. I can't think that supposedly smart and wealthy people have not run the studies to figure this out, but maybe that's why they keep loosing money because they don't know how to look at the forest and keep looking at the trees.
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