Canada's 'housing bubble' deemed close to bursting

[st7860]

Yeah I read somewhere last year that some profs declined a job at Ubc because they wanted a large single family home next to campus.

Ubc is world class and it's competitor SFU is the top comprehensive university in canada

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by whatnext

or mistakenly believe UBC is some incredibly world class institution are driving up those prices.

They definitely aren't mistaken. UBC has been considered a world class university for some time now.

Times Higher Education ranks it 32nd worldwide. Any school in the top 100 is arguably world class to at least a certain degree.
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2014-15/world-ranking

This puts it second in Canada behind U of T (but ahead of McGill), and ahead of well regarded schools like LSE in London, UCLA Santa Barbara, etc...

For comparison, Brown University, which is an Ivy League school and obviously a world class institution, is ranked 54th.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by st7860

Yeah I read somewhere last year that some profs declined a job at Ubc because they wanted a large single family home next to campus.

Ubc is world class and it's competitor SFU is the top comprehensive university in canada

I'd believe it. One of the things I've heard about Queen's is that its faculty recruitment is made easier by the fact that the campus is a 10 minute walk away from the Sydenham Triangle neighbourhood where there's Victorian estates that can be easily purchased on a professor's salary.

[aastra]

Here's the thing some new arrivals to Vancouver might not get: many of those neighbourhoods in Point Grey near the University were not the preserve of the wealthy. Look at the modest bungalows on their 33x120 lots. They were middle or slightly upper middle class homes.

Some Vancouver specials all in a row on a beautiful Point Grey street

Some of the new houses on the same block have exotic cars in their garages.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by lio45

Seems a poor use of capital at first sight... (to buy a home with cash)

I must say that even being as open-minded as I am I always find it a bit worthy of suspicion at first sight (i.e. that it tends to hint at a possible dirty money origin) that someone will buy a property in an expensive market cash only. If that person is running a business, surely they have better things to do with that liquidity than to make sure a SFR to someone's individual name -- read: an easy source of sub-3% financing -- remains free and clear?

And if that person isn't running a business... then it raises the good question of how they ever managed to gather that pile of cash.

If you don't mind, I'd be curious to hear a bit more details about you, just out of curiosity, as a case study.

I am sure it makes sense in some particular situations to keep holding onto a residential Toronto property free and clear (assuming the location from your profile) but at first sight in most situations it doesn't.

You missed my sob story a few pages back about my unionized contractor dad and buying in the 90's

[dleung]

Originally Posted by someone123

In fairness, the debate usually goes more or less like this:

Person A, B, C, D ... K: Housing in Vancouver is really unaffordable. Investment buyers are a big part of it, including international investors
Person L: <Irrelevant racist comment>
Person M: You must all secretly be racist! I bet you are all writing these posts from the same KKK rally! Head taxes! Lynch mobs! This is just like 1890's Alabama!
Person N, not from Vancouver: Yeah, all those racists. They must just be jealous! Why can't we all just put aside our petty differences and forget about this whole silly issue?

You can reconstruct this tired old exchange by scrolling back through this very thread. And in just about every discussion thread you can find examples of people cherry-picking weak posts to respond to rather than posting meaningfully about the meat of the issues that the threads are about...

You missed the part where person C and person L made the thread all about the corrupt money-laundering Chinese

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by dleung

You missed the part where person C and person L made the thread all about the corrupt money-laundering Chinese

People don't come here from poor third world countries with cash to buy a house and work unionized contractor jobs. You sound like my "middle class" friend who's family bought them a multi million dollar home. Again my only question was how did your family get the money in a poor communist country (it was a easy question that could have been answered easily earlier) and how did they get it out?

It's all I ask either don't answer or don't twist the question. I am only trying to make a point and standofishnes just makes me think you could help me out.

On a more related note supposedly between 2005 and 2012 37,000 investor class immigrants came to BC not including ones who came through Qubec. That's alot and represents a significant portion of Vancouvers population growth. Wonder what that does to housing prices? Also of note the new program which requires a audit can't even get 50 after 45,000 wait listed "investors" were cut last year. http://www.immigration.ca/en/immigration...investor-program-re-launched-richer.html

[st7860]

Originally Posted by dleung

You missed my sob story a few pages back about my unionized contractor dad and buying in the 90's

Contractors in Canada, especially carpenters and other tradespersons make pretty good coin, and in BC there is a severe shortage of trades pushing up rates.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by dleung

You missed the part where person C and person L made the thread all about the corrupt money-laundering Chinese

That's because most people have courtesy and understand in Canada you don't go around saying racial things. I could say that in Vancouver, taxi drivers push up the price of subways and other small businesses(in Metro Vancouver there's a financing industry based on taxi licenses which are worth so much money, which then enables drivers/owners to buy other small businesses etc. 'everyone' knows where many of those drivers come from. That doesnt mean its acceptable to complain about them.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by st7860

That's because most people have courtesy and understand in Canada you don't go around saying racial things. I could say that in Vancouver, taxi drivers push up the price of subways and other small businesses(in Metro Vancouver there's a financing industry based on taxi licenses which are worth so much money, which then enables drivers/owners to buy other small businesses etc. 'everyone' knows where many of those drivers come from. That doesnt mean its acceptable to complain about them.

Uber is starting to take them down a notch... Which is likely to have a domino effect.

[dubsH]

Originally Posted by cornholio

People don't come here from poor third world countries with cash to buy a house and work unionized contractor jobs. You sound like my "middle class" friend who's family bought them a multi million dollar home. Again my only question was how did your family get the money in a poor communist country (it was a easy question that could have been answered easily earlier) and how did they get it out?

It's all I ask either don't answer or don't twist the question. I am only trying to make a point and standofishnes just makes me think you could help me out.

Although I don't know dleung at all, I'm curious as to which poor third world country are you referring? It sounds like he's from Hong Kong, which I would not call third world (or communist, at least back in the 90s when it was a British colony) and ranks among the top 20 in the world for 'low perceived levels of corruption' (as well as Singapore). There's more perceived corruption from the Eastern European countries from which Canada receives refugees (and also the United States), so I don't understand what 'point' there is to make.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by dubsH

Although I don't know dleung at all, I'm curious as to which poor third world country are you referring? It sounds like he's from Hong Kong, which I would not call third world (or communist, at least back in the 90s when it was a British colony) and ranks among the top 20 in the world for 'low perceived levels of corruption' (as well as Singapore). There's more perceived corruption from the Eastern European countries from which Canada receives refugees (and also the United States), so I don't understand what 'point' there is to make.

Dleung is a reasonably successful person. haters will hate thats all.

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by cornholio

People don't come here from poor third world countries with cash to buy a house and work unionized contractor jobs. You sound like my "middle class" friend who's family bought them a multi million dollar home. Again my only question was how did your family get the money in a poor communist country (it was a easy question that could have been answered easily earlier) and how did they get it out?

It's all I ask either don't answer or don't twist the question. I am only trying to make a point and standofishnes just makes me think you could help me out.

On a more related note supposedly between 2005 and 2012 37,000 investor class immigrants came to BC not including ones who came through Qubec. That's alot and represents a significant portion of Vancouvers population growth. Wonder what that does to housing prices? Also of note the new program which requires a audit can't even get 50 after 45,000 wait listed "investors" were cut last year. http://www.immigration.ca/en/immigration...investor-program-re-launched-richer.html

Do not answer the question dlueng! You will be blamed for starting an aristocracy in canada.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by cornholio

People don't come here from poor third world countries with cash to buy a house and work unionized contractor jobs. You sound like my "middle class" friend who's family bought them a multi million dollar home. Again my only question was how did your family get the money in a poor communist country (it was a easy question that could have been answered easily earlier) and how did they get it out?

It's all I ask either don't answer or don't twist the question. I am only trying to make a point and standofishnes just makes me think you could help me out.

On a more related note supposedly between 2005 and 2012 37,000 investor class immigrants came to BC not including ones who came through Qubec. That's alot and represents a significant portion of Vancouvers population growth. Wonder what that does to housing prices? Also of note the new program which requires a audit can't even get 50 after 45,000 wait listed "investors" were cut last year. http://www.immigration.ca/en/immigration...investor-program-re-launched-richer.html

It's very likely dleung's family came from capitalist Hong Kong. And assuming so, he's like a lot of my friends who are second or third generation Canadians of Chinese descent. It's great that he has decided to stay and build his life in Canada, that's the way it is supposed to work. Unfortunately many returned right back to HK when they determined they could make money just as well working with the communists and had their Cdn passport as insurance.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by sunsetmountainland

Do not answer the question dlueng! You will be blamed for starting an aristocracy in canada.

lol. Many Canadians leave Canada. Doesn't matter. They aren't consuming anything. The one's not born here pay fees to come, and fees for a passport as well. That's the way its supposed to work. The right to enter and leave Canada.

Canada is more socialist than a lot of places, including China. For example the price of basic grocery staples is fixed in Canada. Such as eggs, milk, and until recently, wheat.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Cdn passport as insurance.

Canadian passports have an extra fee built their application costs for this purpose(it is clearly shown on the application form) thus it does not harm anyone when Canadian citizens live in another country.

[sunsetmountainland]

Originally Posted by Stryker

Lol and what your describing are the beginnings of an aristocracy in canada.

I was pointing out this post at 1913. st7860 just for fun

[lio45]

Originally Posted by dleung

You missed my sob story a few pages back about my unionized contractor dad and buying in the 90's

20+ years ago? Okay, different story then. The combination of much higher interest rates and much lower property prices (in relation to most other COL indicators) made it something that made a LOT more sense then than now, so it's a lot less "suspect".

And by the way, no one in this thread ever complained that there was anything suspect or bizarre in the situation of someone still holding onto, in 2015, a free and clear residential property bought in the 1990s or earlier in any market in the country, even the most expensive ones.

I am sure you see the difference...

[st7860]

The difference is thinking foreigners are a problem

[lio45]

Situation #1: an elderly couple (let's make them ethnic Chinese in this example since you like to insist on making this about race) own a Vancouver SFH free and clear as of April 2015. The house is worth $2 million as of April 2015. It was bought in the '70s and the mortgage was eventually paid off.

Situation #2: someone owns a Vancouver SFH free and clear as of April 2015. The house is worth $2 million as of April 2015. The owner arrived recently from the PRC. The owner bought the house for ~$2 million, cash, recently.


Surely you see a difference other than race between the two situations even though fundamentally they can both be summed by "someone owns a Vancouver house free and clear right now"...?

I mean, you can see why people might consider Situation #2 to be, at least marginally, more of a "problem" than Situation #1?