Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by dharper

I only rode on the Canada line once, and the thing I remember the most about it was how slow the train moved. Was that a one off thing, or does the Canada line that much slower than the Expo line?

Yeah it's been mentioned on here a few times. I get where people are coming from when they say they like the Canada Line as it does have a lot of pluses. But to me, speed is the most important thing, and the Expo/Millennium Lines are just flat out faster.

[Procrastinational]

Originally Posted by dleung

I prefer the Mark II trains, with the more intimate lighting, round light fixtures, and the way the royal blue upholstery compliments the yellow bars - sharing the same scheme as all the new buses and trolleys. All the elements work together to look quite cheerful yet modern.




The Canada line trains have this bare-bones quality (especially on the heavily-fingerprinted metal bars) and harsh unfocused fluorescent light that makes everyone appear sickly green. Here you can totally perceive the empty shell of the train and how they just filled it with generic mismatched parts.

I definitely prefer the Mark II trains. They are set up much better for standing. The bars are too far apart on the Canada line trains. The grouped seats are annoying too because you have to climb over a stranger to get out of a window seat. I wonder how hard it would be to change the seats to be facing inward...

[finalcoolman]

The Lougheed Station bus loop has been reopened.

I guess this means that the 555 Express bus from Langley will be moved from Braid to Lougheed as part of the Labour Day September service changes.

The closed bus loop at Lougheed was the reason that the 555 is still going to Braid, even thought those bus on/off-ramps have been complete for a while.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by finalcoolman

The Lougheed Station bus loop has been reopened.

I guess this means that the 555 Express bus from Langley will be moved from Braid to Lougheed as part of the Labour Day September service changes.

The closed bus loop at Lougheed was the reason that the 555 is still going to Braid, even thought those bus on/off-ramps have been complete for a while.

If the 555 Express can go directly to Lougheed now, I don't see why they have to wait until Labour Day to reroute it. This would provide enhance service to its users sooner, avoiding that Braid bottleneck. Unlike most Translink employees, most working people and even some post secondary students don't have summer breaks.

On a more related news, further proof how idiotic those PoMo residents and civic leaders are...

Clarke Road re-opened before 'local traffic only' zone implemented

Clarke Road was fully re-opened Wednesday afternoon, less than a week after its southbound lanes were closed because of a third sinkhole that formed over the Evergreen Line tunnel boring machine.

As you can clearly see, EGRT is simply awesome! Despite the insurmontable challenges of the geology and facing the never ending and uncalled criticism of yokels, they are able to be ahead of schedule opening the road and incur very little disruption.

I think the public (including some forumers here) should just give EGRT the benefit of the doubt and stop whinning over the smallest things.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I think the public (including some forumers here) should just give EGRT the benefit of the doubt and stop whinning over the smallest things.

Why you you defend them so much? If they knew the full geology they would be closing these areas in advance and/or not having random sinkholes form. This isn't the first one, and may not be the last one. Where is their risk mitigation plan? Frankly they are very lucky nobody has been injured yet.

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

I definitely prefer the Mark II trains. They are set up much better for standing. The bars are too far apart on the Canada line trains. The grouped seats are annoying too because you have to climb over a stranger to get out of a window seat. I wonder how hard it would be to change the seats to be facing inward...

I think one of the major advantages of the Canada Line trains is that the bars are so far apart. This really helps make the train more welcoming for those with wheelchairs, scooters, and bikes. Some people with disabilities (esp. men) have mobility aids that are just so big that they can't even fit in around the central bar on the Mark II trains, even if they fit in the elevator to get to the platforms.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why you you defend them so much? If they knew the full geology they would be closing these areas in advance and/or not having random sinkholes form. This isn't the first one, and may not be the last one. Where is their risk mitigation plan? Frankly they are very lucky nobody has been injured yet.

How do you know they don't have a risk mitigation plan? Its pretty much SOP for any contractor, as well as many types of business, to have one, but its not something that is public are privy too. Internally, its possible not all employees know all the details about it, but the managers should know for sure.

Luck has nothing to do with it. EGRT has been overkill when it comes to preparations, and of all projects, this seems to be the one that is the most open to communication. Probably because of lessons learned from the Canada Line (even that has a fatality), and that's not a bad thing since it shows the companies behind EGRT are looking for ways to improve.

Special circumstances like sinkholes are pretty much unavoidable, but its how well the contractor reacts to it is what would ultimately matter. Instead of crying about it and covering it up, EGRT faces it head on and does its best to fix things. Its only good business.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dharper

I only rode on the Canada line once, and the thing I remember the most about it was how slow the train moved. Was that a one off thing, or does the Canada line that much slower than the Expo line?

The Canada Line runs to a specified schedule. It does not run "as fast as the trains can go".
The speed of the trains would increase when frequencies increase.

Originally Posted by Procrastinational

I definitely prefer the Mark II trains. They are set up much better for standing. The bars are too far apart on the Canada line trains. The grouped seats are annoying too because you have to climb over a stranger to get out of a window seat. I wonder how hard it would be to change the seats to be facing inward...

Last I rode Canada Line (last month?) - I noticed that they've installed bars with straphangers to the ceilings of the cars in the areas with wide open spaces.


.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Luck has nothing to do with it. EGRT has been overkill when it comes to preparations, and of all projects, this seems to be the one that is the most open to communication. Probably because of lessons learned from the Canada Line (even that has a fatality), and that's not a bad thing since it shows the companies behind EGRT are looking for ways to improve.

Special circumstances like sinkholes are pretty much unavoidable, but its how well the contractor reacts to it is what would ultimately matter. Instead of crying about it and covering it up, EGRT faces it head on and does its best to fix things. Its only good business.

Why are you rushing to their defense so quickly? I don't get it.

Sinkholes are happening. It's pure luck nobody has fallen or driven in to one. Unless you're implying they are planning where they will occur.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The Canada Line runs to a specified schedule. It does not run "as fast as the trains can go".
The speed of the trains would increase when frequencies increase.

That doesn't make much sense to me, and it certainly hasn't happened over the all the years since the start of service that I've been riding the Expo line.

[officedweller]

They do know where the risk of a sinkhole is highest - when the machine stops for maintenance - and they strategically arranged in advance for the stoppage locations to be under open areas like parking lots or roadways (not under buildings).

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

That doesn't make much sense to me, and it certainly hasn't happened over the all the years since the start of service that I've been riding the Expo line.

I was taking about the Canada Line.

The Concession Agreement specifies a schedule.

They have since added a train to Bridgeport Station, so trains may run a bit faster to Bridgeport as a result.

If you run the trains as fast as they can, but are still limited to (I think 16 trains per hour), that just means the headways are longer (the train wouldn't immediately reverse at the terminus, it would wait until its scheduled departure time (like a bus driver does)), and people are standing on platforms longer grumbling. If they run them at slower speeds, at least the passengers are in moving trains, rather than grumbling waiting on the platform.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I was taking about the Canada Line.

So was I, I was just using the Expo line as an example of a service that has had major headway increases over its lifetime without any associated service speed increases. I fail to see why the Canada line would be any different.

If you run the trains as fast as they can, but are still limited to (I think 16 trains per hour), that just means the headways are longer (the train wouldn't immediately reverse at the terminus, it would wait until its scheduled departure time (like a bus driver does)), and people are standing on platforms longer grumbling. If they run them at slower speeds, at least the passengers are in moving trains, rather than grumbling waiting on the platform.

They'll never schedule the trains to run "as fast as they can" because that highest speed is always reserved to make up for schedule delays such as stuck doors. The same is true on the Expo Line.

In the same vein, if you're not running trains at the maximum frequency then you'd normally want some layover time at the terminus stations anyway because that's another "slack" in the schedule that you can use to make up for delays.

Trains already dwell at the terminus stations even on the Canada Line, I've never seen anybody grumble about it. The fact that the trains sit inside the stations with their doors open (unlike buses in a lot of cases) means that people can board the train and sit down while they wait. And the wait is never longer at the terminus stations than it is at any other station. At an intermediate station if you "just miss the train" then you have to wait for, say, 4 minutes for the next train. The same is true at the terminus, except for much of that 4 minutes you can sit on the train while waiting for it to leave.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by dleung

I prefer the Mark II trains, with the more intimate lighting, round light fixtures, and the way the royal blue upholstery compliments the yellow bars - sharing the same scheme as all the new buses and trolleys. All the elements work together to look quite cheerful yet modern.




The Canada line trains have this bare-bones quality (especially on the heavily-fingerprinted metal bars) and harsh unfocused fluorescent light that makes everyone appear sickly green. Here you can totally perceive the empty shell of the train and how they just filled it with generic mismatched parts.

Spot on. I always had the impression that the Canada line cars felt cheap inside and from the first time I sat on the seats I feel they are poorly designed. Their posture is like a task chair with poor lumbar support. I understand they are designed for short term sitting but they even seem to be an inch or two too low. Another shortfall is that few people realize the seats were designed to put luggage beneath them, however there is no signage to indicate that you can do this to save space. We have all seen the people coming or going to the airport taking up a huge area near the door with huge bags, oblivious to everything. Also with the Canada line being underground for most of vancouver, the interior space feels very dead and depressing with nothing to see out the window. some ceiling art or warmer lighting and colour scheme are needed.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

That doesn't make much sense to me, and it certainly hasn't happened over the all the years since the start of service that I've been riding the Expo line.

The Canada Line was planned with a maximum end-to-end trip time. I think it's 26 minutes. When they add new stations the end-to-end trip time will remain the same because trains will be sped up. This has nothing to do with headways.

[queetz@home]

Why oh why are Canada Line posts that has nothing to do with Evergreen Line are continuing...

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Why are you rushing to their defense so quickly? I don't get it.

Sinkholes are happening. It's pure luck nobody has fallen or driven in to one. Unless you're implying they are planning where they will occur.

Answer is there...

Originally Posted by officedweller

They do know where the risk of a sinkhole is highest - when the machine stops for maintenance - and they strategically arranged in advance for the stoppage locations to be under open areas like parking lots or roadways (not under buildings).

To add to that, its only proper that the contractor takes step to...oh I dunno...mitigate the risk of someone falling or driving into one...

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Jebby

The Canada Line was planned with a maximum end-to-end trip time. I think it's 26 minutes. When they add new stations the end-to-end trip time will remain the same because trains will be sped up. This has nothing to do with headways.

If they ran the trains at the design speed and reduced the time it takes to get downtown, it would be significantly faster than driving, making it competitive and boosting ridership, thus enabling future stations to be built sooner. The extra fares would far outweigh the costs of more maintenance, but logic has never been a forte with these things...

[red-paladin]

While comparing the Evergreen Line to Canada Line is partly relevant to the thread, we do have to stay on track..

New shot of Lincoln Station progress from http://wcs.pbaeng.com/projects/R1_Transit





EDIT:

Sorry if I was too subtle. Please keep comments about Canada Line that are not comparisons related to Evergreen Line to the general Transit thread. Further off topic posts will be pruned.

[finalcoolman]

Actually, the Evergreen Line is exactly what the Canada Line should have been....so sad.

[GeeCee]

Inlet/Ioco Station is really coming along. It's not looking much like the artist's renderings of it, but it looks nice so far. Unfortunately it's not easy for me to get pictures of it and I think they took the webcam of it down some time ago as it was in the way.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by finalcoolman

Actually, the Evergreen Line is exactly what the Canada Line should have been....so sad.

Ill take underground Subway instead of concrete guideway down the centre of the street any day.

( I realize you're talking about the capacity )