Phoenix Development News (3)

[MegaBass]

Get a Peek Inside DeSoto Central Market Before the Grand Opening This Weekend

[turpentyne]

Perhaps this has been mentioned, but I saw something yesterday that is commendable ... for once!

The house just east of the set of restaurants at 3rd street and Roosevelt ( Paz tacos and all that) has been raised up, and looks set to be moved to a new location - rather than being demo'd into rubble and lost to history.

Not sure what's going there exactly - sadly, I'd imagine it's more 3-5 story condos we don't need. But, at least they saved an old house from destruction.

Unless it's a 10+ story mutl-use! That, I'd be happy with.

[turpentyne]

Oh... I feel I should add. I don't want a Phoenician "love a loo" shirt. sounds horrifying to a Phoenican. God gawd! That public bathroom just steaming and baking in our summer heat!

ACK!!!!!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by turpentyne

Oh... I feel I should add. I don't want a Phoenician "love a loo" shirt. sounds horrifying to a Phoenican. God gawd! That public bathroom just steaming and baking in our summer heat!

ACK!!!!!

The attitude of Phoenicians and Portlanders is like oil and water haha!

[Spitfiredude]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...y-sell-downtown-sheraton-hotel/25555315/

Depending on how you look at it, this is positive news. I don't like public entities trying to involve themselves in the hotel business. Looks like Phoenix is exploring options at replacing Talking Stick (US Airways) Arena. Seems to be a decent opposition in them spending money on a new arena using public dollars. Either way, I think if they can't get a new arena built we will be seeing the Suns locate to a different part of the valley or out of state.

[rocksteady]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...y-sell-downtown-sheraton-hotel/25555315/

Depending on how you look at it, this is positive news. I don't like public entities trying to involve themselves in the hotel business. Looks like Phoenix is exploring options at replacing Talking Stick (US Airways) Arena. Seems to be a decent opposition in them spending money on a new arena using public dollars. Either way, I think if they can't get a new arena built we will be seeing the Suns locate to a different part of the valley or out of state.

It's by far the biggest eye sore downtown. I can't believe something like that would get built in the 2000's, as it looks like it is straight out of the 70's. Let's hope the city sells it and a private company can turn it around.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Spitfiredude

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...y-sell-downtown-sheraton-hotel/25555315/

Depending on how you look at it, this is positive news. I don't like public entities trying to involve themselves in the hotel business. Looks like Phoenix is exploring options at replacing Talking Stick (US Airways) Arena. Seems to be a decent opposition in them spending money on a new arena using public dollars. Either way, I think if they can't get a new arena built we will be seeing the Suns locate to a different part of the valley or out of state.

Typically cities have had to back their anchor convention hotels when building/expanding new conventions centers. At least Phoenix had the advantage of the state paying half of the convention center cost IIRC. Exceptions might include a top convention market like Las Vegas or Orlando. I believe Austin avoided doing so because of well Austin plus there's been more capital available this decade than last for such projects.

Denver had to back their convention hotel as well. It was finished before Phoenix in 2004 with the hotel in 2005. It has been a huge success and the rather nice Hyatt Convention Hotel has thrived and the taxes designated for paying for both have done so easily.

Phoenix had the disadvantage of being counter-seasonal in competing for the larger conventions as opposed to the more corporate retreats that have made the resort/spa/golf course hotels so successful. Then they ran into the Great Recession and then SB1070. It wasn't the few conventions that canceled so much as the phones quit ringings. Larger conventions are generally planned 3-5 years in advance, sometimes even further out.

I think ultimately the center and the hotel will do fine. They just had an awful start in life. As for the Suns, I can't imagine them not staying in downtown Phoenix. I'll assume something will be worked out. The Suns arena is the 8th oldest in the NBA and three of those have new arenas in progress. Madison Square Garden was recently redone. A brief fanpost at Bright Side of the Sun by Hoop Shootin' Boogie quoted Sarver as saying:

"We're definitely going to have to get a new arena built," Sarver said. "Our lease runs for another eight years maybe. Between us and the city, we've done a good job maintaining it despite its age but it's starting to run out of gas. It's like a house. It gets to be 30 years old and then you've got a lot of work to do. You can remodel or build a new house."

[poconoboy61]

Originally Posted by rocksteady

It's by far the biggest eye sore downtown. I can't believe something like that would get built in the 2000's, as it looks like it is straight out of the 70's. Let's hope the city sells it and a private company can turn it around.

IMO, there are far worse eyesores downtown. This just happens to be the tallest one.

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Typically cities have had to back their anchor convention hotels when building/expanding new conventions centers. At least Phoenix had the advantage of the state paying half of the convention center cost IIRC. Exceptions might include a top convention market like Las Vegas or Orlando. I believe Austin avoided doing so because of well Austin plus there's been more capital available this decade than last for such projects.

Denver had to back their convention hotel as well. It was finished before Phoenix in 2004 with the hotel in 2005. It has been a huge success and the rather nice Hyatt Convention Hotel has thrived and the taxes designated for paying for both have done so easily.

Phoenix had the disadvantage of being counter-seasonal in competing for the larger conventions as opposed to the more corporate retreats that have made the resort/spa/golf course hotels so successful. Then they ran into the Great Recession and then SB1070. It wasn't the few conventions that canceled so much as the phones quit ringings. Larger conventions are generally planned 3-5 years in advance, sometimes even further out.

I think ultimately the center and the hotel will do fine. They just had an awful start in life. As for the Suns, I can't imagine them not staying in downtown Phoenix. I'll assume something will be worked out. The Suns arena is the 8th oldest in the NBA and three of those have new arenas in progress. Madison Square Garden was recently redone. A brief fanpost at Bright Side of the Sun by Hoop Shootin' Boogie quoted Sarver as saying:

Hopefully you're right about the hotel. It seems a bit oversized for Phoenix's needs. It seems like it could have half as many floors and would be more successful as such. This article makes the justification for the Hotel Monroe redevelopment and the Luhrs City Center hotel that much more mindboggling. Is there really that much of a need for additional hotel rooms downtown right now? Will these two future hotel developments and all the additional hotels downtown just keep the Sheraton from ever becoming viable? Do convention goers who come to Arizona just prefer to meet in Scottsdale?

I hope the Suns stay downtown. I'm not sure that there's anything that would keep them from moving to the suburbs, though, while changing their names to the Arizona Suns in the process. If the arena is moved outside of downtown, I fear that the effect on the downtown could be fatal. The arena is one of the only reasons that people from the suburbs are drawn downtown. Without it, there would be no need, other than Diamondbacks games, to even come downtown for most people.

[PHX31]

God help us if they ever changed their name to the Arizona Suns. They're our original franchise. All the other teams are either recent expansion or relocation teams. I can't stand that they have the Arizona moniker. To me all sports team names not named after the major city in the region are incredibly cheesy.

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

. As for the Suns, I can't imagine them not staying in downtown Phoenix. I'll assume something will be worked out. The Suns arena is the 8th oldest in the NBA and three of those have new arenas in progress. Madison Square Garden was recently redone. A brief fanpost at Bright Side of the Sun by Hoop Shootin' Boogie quoted Sarver as saying:

Robert Sarver might be the stupidest millionaire in the world. The Suns do not need a new arena, USAC is fine. I've been to over half the NBA arena's, it could use some remodeling but to say they need a whole new building is laughable.

What they need more than anything is a practice facility. That could be done in a repurposed warehouse south of downtown. Or in one of the Valley's many charming empty big box shells.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by PHX31

God help us if they ever changed their name to the Arizona Suns. They're our original franchise. All the other teams are either recent expansion or relocation teams. I can't stand that they have the Arizona moniker. To me all sports team names not named after the major city in the region are incredibly cheesy.

Totally agree.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Robert Sarver might be the stupidest millionaire in the world. The Suns do not need a new arena, USAC is fine. I've been to over half the NBA arena's, it could use some remodeling but to say they need a whole new building is laughable.

What they need more than anything is a practice facility. That could be done in a repurposed warehouse south of downtown. Or in one of the Valley's many charming empty big box shells.

Exactly. It's crazy to think that it opened in 1992 and it's the 8th oldest arena. The arena is fine for what the Suns need to play games. Have they been selling out?

As for the Sheraton, what if they converted floors 5-18 as private residences? Also, have they remodeled the rooms yet? Usually hotel rooms need a complete overhaul every 6-8 years. This will be very expensive for a 1000 room hotel with large meeting space.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by poconoboy61

Hopefully you're right about the hotel. It seems a bit oversized for Phoenix's needs. It seems like it could have half as many floors and would be more successful as such. This article makes the justification for the Hotel Monroe redevelopment and the Luhrs City Center hotel that much more mindboggling. Is there really that much of a need for additional hotel rooms downtown right now? Will these two future hotel developments and all the additional hotels downtown just keep the Sheraton from ever becoming viable? Do convention goers who come to Arizona just prefer to meet in Scottsdale?

It's a conundrum. The convention business is huge and diverse. Phoenix can compete for larger conventions of say 10-15,000 attendees. I think their largest like the NRA and a religious convention probably had closer to 20,000 attendees. I assume that a handful of these can pay the bills or most of them for the year. Add in several conventions in the 7,500 range and your set. There's also a boatload of conventions in the 3-6,000 range.

Think trade shows or industry associations. There must be hundreds of them from defense oriented to medical groups, teachers, electricians etc... the list is long.

Part of the conundrum for Phoenix is that they don't have enough hotel rooms. Denver recently had a study done on their center and it was suggested that they could use another 1,000 room anchor. That's the big new trend. Austin which recently opened their 1st 1,000+ room convention hotel already has a 2nd under construction. White Lodging which built the 1st anchor hotel has a 360 room dual branded Hyatt due to open this year a block from Denver's center. They will soon break ground on a 400 room dual branded hotel for an AC and Le Meridian also a block from the center. Denver has doubled their hotel inventory since the convention center opened with near 9,000 rooms on their way to 10,000.

Other than a couple of pretenders, Denver (metro) has nothing that can compete with the resort hotels down here. Although a different environment, downtown is growing their corporate business which would more likely be held at one of the hotels.

Phoenix would really benefit from a couple of more office towers or even some nice mid-rise mixed use projects. A lot of good stuff has happened downtown with more in the pipeline. It's just been slow but sure so far... thanks to Tempe.

[Jjs5056]

We've consistently heard that in order for Phoenix to move into the next 'tier' of conventions (in terms of size), more hotel rooms were needed - which is why it isn't surprising that the Marriotts at Luhrs and Hilton on Monroe are moving forward. In addition, the 2 Marriott brands and the Hilton Garden Inn are limited-service (aka mid-priced), something lacking in the downtown market (Renaissance, Hyatt Regency, Sheraton, Westin, and Palomar are all full-service). And, the Monroe Hilton is being built within a historic structure, which is a pretty good differentiator for attracting guests.

I would even say that the addition of these properties might help the Sheraton: if the increase in beds leads to an increase in the # of convention attendees per event, there will be many more potential guests for the Sheraton to capture.

Also, someone who was involved with the hotel industry posted here that hotels build for peak demand. So, an average of ~60% occupancy rate is expected as every one is going to experience highs and lows.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by HooverDam

Robert Sarver might be the stupidest millionaire in the world. The Suns do not need a new arena, USAC is fine. I've been to over half the NBA arena's, it could use some remodeling but to say they need a whole new building is laughable.

What they need more than anything is a practice facility. That could be done in a repurposed warehouse south of downtown. Or in one of the Valley's many charming empty big box shells.

I'm envious as a big NBA fan. Your argument is a good one. The life could certainly be extended for many years.

Sarver doesn't have the biggest pockets unfortunately. Denver was fortunate when Stan Kroenke showed up. He built the Pepsi Center on his dime. But he also owns the Nuggets, Avalanche, the cable channel and soon-to-be L.A. Rams? Perhaps a new owner might be able to at least put up a lot the cost for a new arena?

[Jjs5056]

A new wine shop is set to open in the 111 Monroe building. It's good to see their ground level retail filling in, and that they are quality businesses.

Regarding the Suns Arena, it will not be disastrous for downtown if they were to move. Look up the economic impact arenas have on downtowns and you'll see how exaggerated the revitalization promises are to get taxpayers to OK the funding. I think it would be more disastrous for downtown if the taxpayers approved of a new arena without stipulations. In LA, Staples Center's development included:

• a developer-funded assessment of community park & recreation needs, and a $1 million commitment toward meeting those needs;
• a goal that 70% of the jobs created in the project will pay the City's living wage, and consultation with the coalition on selection of tenants;
• a first source hiring program targeting job opportunities to low-income individuals and those displaced by the project;
• increased affordable housing requirements in the housing component of the project, and a commitment of seed money for other affordable housing projects;
• developer funding for a residential parking program for surrounding neighborhoods; and
• standards for responsible contracting and leasing decisions by the developer.

We should expect nothing less from a new Suns development if taxpayers foot the bill.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Regarding the Suns Arena, it will not be disastrous for downtown if they were to move. Look up the economic impact arenas have on downtowns and you'll see how exaggerated the revitalization promises are to get taxpayers to OK the funding.

My understanding is that arenas/sports venues don't have much of an impact on metro areas as a whole, not that they don't have much of an impact on downtowns.

The logic behind this is that people in a metro area generally have a set amount of money they are willing to spend on entertainment. If they don't spend it on a sporting event, they'll usually spend a similar amount on something else locally like the movies, concert, zoo, amusement park, etc.

Thus, I think if the Suns moved out of downtown or even if they moved to a completely different market, then it wouldn't have much or any impact on the Phoenix metro economy as a whole. BUT if they move out of downtown it would have an impact on downtown because that money previously spent on entertainment at the arena is now being spent on entertainment that is not necessarily all downtown.

That being said, I agree with you that it wouldn't necessarily be a disaster for downtown if the Suns left. I think overall the economic effects of professional sports leagues are grossly overestimated. In fact, it may be a good thing for downtown if they left.

Sports arenas create huge dead zones during the majority of time they are empty, and the massive parking infrastructure supporting the arenas definitely isn't good for downtown either. It would be much better if all that area could be repurposed into something useful like condos/apartments, ASU/US campus, retail, or office buildings. However, if they were to move, I would just hope that they stayed in a location on the light rail line. Maybe like along Washington/Jefferson over near the airport.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

A new wine shop is set to open in the 111 Monroe building. It's good to see their ground level retail filling in, and that they are quality businesses.

That's good. The 111 Monroe building has had a couple of bits of good news recently (since it got new ownership).

[poconoboy61]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

A new wine shop is set to open in the 111 Monroe building. It's good to see their ground level retail filling in, and that they are quality businesses.

Regarding the Suns Arena, it will not be disastrous for downtown if they were to move. Look up the economic impact arenas have on downtowns and you'll see how exaggerated the revitalization promises are to get taxpayers to OK the funding. I think it would be more disastrous for downtown if the taxpayers approved of a new arena without stipulations. In LA, Staples Center's development included:

• a developer-funded assessment of community park & recreation needs, and a $1 million commitment toward meeting those needs;
• a goal that 70% of the jobs created in the project will pay the City's living wage, and consultation with the coalition on selection of tenants;
• a first source hiring program targeting job opportunities to low-income individuals and those displaced by the project;
• increased affordable housing requirements in the housing component of the project, and a commitment of seed money for other affordable housing projects;
• developer funding for a residential parking program for surrounding neighborhoods; and
• standards for responsible contracting and leasing decisions by the developer.

We should expect nothing less from a new Suns development if taxpayers foot the bill.

I can't see how it wouldn't be disastrous. What reason would suburbanites have to come downtown without a basketball team and one of the Valley's primary entertainment venues? Sure, Chase Field is still around for now. That will draw baseball fans from outside of downtown. However, outside of baseball season, what will happen to downtown? Residents from outside downtown Phoenix and visitors carry downtown businesses. Without them, most would shutter.

Living downtown, I can tell you that the neighborhood is most active when there is a game of some sort or a big name concert downtown. I don't think people who live outside of Phoenix, or really outside of downtown for the matter, are going to put forth much effort to come downtown if they have no reason to. Also, quite a few of my neighbors live downtown and put up with premium prices because of the access to Chase and US Airways. What incentive would they have for staying downtown without US Airways?

Regardless, I don't think any developer would have much success in scaring taxpayers into keeping the arena downtown. I would surmise that the majority of people in Phoenix don't really care whether or not the basketball team stays downtown, thus weakening any strategy to scare taxpayers into funding a new site in that area. People already complain about paying for parking. I think the responsibility is on proponents of downtown Phoenix to give the Suns a reason to stay downtown, not the other way around. If developers for a new arena request public funds to build on another site downtown, having the public attach a bunch of strings to their request is not the best strategy. It would be too easy for the team to pick up, find a much cheaper site to develop in the suburbs, and have taxpayers in that locale approve a publicly financed arena as is.

[TakeFive]

D-backs win in the bottom of the 10th 4-3, woo hoo!!

"Arizona Center could be up for sale"
Apr 10, 2015 by Mike Sunnucks, Phoenix Business Journal

The 1.1 million-square-foot Van Buren Street project is not yet officially listed for sale but is expected to be on the market soon with Eastdll Secured handling the listing, according to officials familiar with the situation.

The Arizona Center includes two office towers totaling 800,000 square feet, a 24-screen movie theater and a retail and restaurant complex. It is one of the largest and most prominent developments in Phoenix

Considering the current owner acquired the property out of a Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2011, it's not surprising they would bank some gain and move on.

poconoboy61... I think you are spot on.