noirish Los Angeles

[GaylordWilshire]

The Jaffee Trading Co was at 757 S San Pedro St, where the fence is today...




Not much to go no today at that address, except for the building at left, whose edge seems to appear in the vintage shot.

From the Times of May 30, 1948:





757 S San Pedro is just across the street from this building we've seen here before:

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire

The environs of Ceres Avenue have always intrigued me... in its obscurity the east side between Main Street and the river seems somehow to be the real vintage Los Angeles.... Here are a few
scenes of the neighborhood...



Northeast corner of South San Pedro and Agatha streets... we might have seen this before...

[Beaudry]

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson

Ha. An autographed copy. Just what I want. Although a shot of the Hildreth carriage house would immediately make it worth the cover price. I find Ellroy wholly unreadable. My loss I'm sure. Thanks for the info on the red sandstone Courthouse remnants. Now if I can just find some lower-level county functionary who knows where some disposable remnants might be stacked.

Your post has set my heart a-yearning.

Ellroy has his detractors and followers—and few in between, to be certain! '53 is by and large a big glossy picture-book, though, which makes it all the more germane to NLA: ganze noirische crime scene images with which to play "compare via Googlemobile."

Re: Courthouse remnants, I heard tell that there were some other red sandstone walls near Ladera Park—in the parking lot at the Senior Center across the street on W 62nd, west of S La Brea. Now, I haven't been there myself to corroborate, so that piece of info remains to be proven.

[tovangar2]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

I've circled it in this detail of an 1948 aerial I posted back on page 1. (note the impressive dome)


http://digitallibrary.usc.edu/cdm/search/searchterm/examiner-m6885/EXM-N-9399-023~1/order/nosort

For photographs of the vast interior (and more) go here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showpost.php?p=6785935&postcount=24381
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Excellent Baldwin Hills post FlyingWedge!

----------------------------------------------------------


I may be the only person interested, but The LA Cement Gun Company was responsible for the RKO Hillstreet Theater's reinforced Gunite dome:

Historic Los Angeles Theaters

G. Albert Lansburgh also designed the Hillstreet's near twin, the Golden Gate in San Francisco the same year, 1922. It survives.

Both theaters are pictured in the November 1922 issue of Architect and Builder

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

Ellroy has his detractors and followers—and few in between, to be certain! '53 is by and large a big glossy picture-book, though, which makes it all the more germane to NLA: ganze noirische crime scene images with which to play "compare via Googlemobile."

Re: Courthouse remnants, I heard tell that there were some other red sandstone walls near Ladera Park—in the parking lot at the Senior Center across the street on W 62nd, west of S La Brea. Now, I haven't been there myself to corroborate, so that piece of info remains to be proven.

So the Hildreth carriage house reference was a tease? Damn. Does anyone know how to cancel an Amazon order??

[ethereal_reality]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

Re: Courthouse remnants, I heard tell that there were some other red sandstone walls near Ladera Park—in the parking lot at the Senior Center across the street on W 62nd,
west of S La Brea. Now, I haven't been there myself to corroborate, so that piece of info remains to be proven.

Hmmmmm....I think you may be on to something Beaudry.

There are red sandstone blocks bordering the parking lot at the Ladera Park Senior Center along W. 62nd.


GSV

Note the higher wall in front of the parked car........it also looks like red sandstone.





So how did the 1888 courthouse remnants end up here of all places?


Google Maps

[tovangar2]

Windsor Hills was developed in the mid-to-late 1930s, about the time the stone became available. Oddly enough, Windsor Hills and City Terrace are both unincorporated areas. Maybe the city didn't want the county's old rocks or the county just decided it was easier to dump them where they didn't have to ask permission.

I don't see any carved bits of sandstone in the Ladera Park parking lot so it would be hard to prove where it came from except, of course, it's 240-million-year-old Moenkopi from Flagstaff. The Arizona Sandstone Company quarry sent 500 boxcars of it to Los Angeles in 1889 for the Courthouse. A big order. There were other orders from Los Angeles and Pasadena too. The Durand residence in Pasadena used stone from the Flagstaff quarry, for example.

Arizona red lost favor when it was noticed it deteriorated in other climates, which probably explains the fragility of our Courthouse. The Brown Palace (1892) in Denver, which utilizes Colorado red granite as well as Arizona red sandstone, seems to be doing OK with a lot of maintenance, but the Whittier Mansion (1896) in San Fransico had to be sealed and painted.

LA County Courthouse in the raw. Arizona Sandstone Company quarry, Flagstaff ca 1888:

geocaching

ca 1887

azdailysun

Flagstaff's own County Courthouse (1894) is doing fine:

pixelfugue

A new fire station has been built in the disused quarry site, if anyone has a mind to make a pilgrimage it's at
1701 Ponderosa Parkway, Flagstaff AZ 86001:

gsv

more info:
A History in Stone Uncovered
Arizona Red, A Once-Popular Building Stone
Buildings Built of Arizona Red Sandstone
HistoricAZ66: Flagstaff Quarry
Stories in Stone
Moenkopi Formation

[Beaudry]

Originally Posted by MichaelRyerson

So the Hildreth carriage house reference was a tease? Damn. Does anyone know how to cancel an Amazon order??

Oh no, the Hildreth image is the real deal. It doesn't really offer any new information than the 1951 shot we're used to. Still, the 1953 shot is arresting, if you'll pardon the pun. Definitely keep the book on order—it's a great history of early-50s LA.

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

Oh no, the Hildreth image is the real deal. It doesn't really offer any new information than the 1951 shot we're used to. Still, the 1953 shot is arresting, if you'll pardon the pun. Definitely keep the book on order—it's a great history of early-50s LA.

You're a gentleman and a scholar, but you knew that. The book order stands. May 19th seems very far away.

[GaylordWilshire]

Originally Posted by Beaudry

Ellroy has his detractors and followers—and few in between, to be certain! '53 is by and large a big glossy picture-book, though, which makes it all the more germane to NLA: ganze noirische crime scene images with which to play "compare via Googlemobile."

Re: Courthouse remnants, I heard tell that there were some other red sandstone walls near Ladera Park—in the parking lot at the Senior Center across the street on W 62nd, west of S La Brea. Now, I haven't been there myself to corroborate, so that piece of info remains to be proven.

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Hmmmmm....I think you may be on to something Beaudry.

There are red sandstone blocks bordering the parking lot at the Ladera Park Senior Center along W. 62nd.



GSV

Note the higher wall in front of the parked car........it also looks like red sandstone.

From the Times, July 26, 1936:




These shots don't offer much in the way of clues, but there is that back wall...

GSV



city-data.com


As for Ellroy--here's what I thought five years ago--I still remember My Dark Places as riveting (The Hilliker Curse, which I think was sort of a followup, less so):

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire

To be honest with you, I could never really get through his fiction because of his grating "patois"--I think the only novel I read all the way through was The Black Dahlia. But I agree that My Dark Places is superb. As you say, haunting. A must-read for anyone interested in Los Angeles noir. If I find that tour I made for myself, I'll let you know. But it seems you can have it directly from the source--apparently Ellroy gives his own tours. I found this as I was looking for the above picture: http://www.esotouric.com/jamesellroy . I may have to plan my next trip around one of them.

[oldstuff]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Very interesting information oldstuff. Is this the underground chamber you're talking about?


GSV


It still has an antiquated light.


GSV

That's the one. I remember it from before they boarded it up.

[oldstuff]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

This was in an old file of mine with the other Brand Blvd. photo I just posted (thanks Otis, C. King and HossC for figuring out the location)



old file/eBay, possibly pacificelectric.org.

I believe the 'underground chamber' oldstuff mentioned is directly behind the streetcar. I'm really curious about it.
Do you really think it might have contained a bathroom for motormen?

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That is what I understood it to be from my mom who would have remembered when the streetcar ran up there. I did see something else online which mentioned it and that also said that it was a bathroom.

[oldstuff]

Originally Posted by tovangar2

In case Beaudry takes a while, the remnants are in City Terrace Park. I only know this because JScott told me.

1079 N Hazard Ave, ELA:

gsv


lots more pix at Richard Schave's flickr here.

There is one more remnant that is more easily found. It is the cornerstone from the 1888 courthouse which was place in the Hill Street side of the entrance. It is located on the planter-plinth to the left of the steps on Hill street. There is a Greek Key design carved into the red sandstone.

[oldstuff]

Originally Posted by HossC

The picture below shows the same intersection on N Brand. I found it in an article on thesource.metro.net which includes a couple of "then and now" comparisons on N Brand. The caption says "The top photo was taken in April 1955 at Brand Boulevard and Mountain Avenue — literally the end of the Pacific Electric line."


http://thesource.metro.net

One of the comments, posted by "mike dunn", says "Concerning Brand and Mountain. Look closely and in the middle of street you see a iron fence. Even into the RTD when Buses layed over there the operators used an underground restroom gained access via this gated entrance."

In that photo you can also see the planters above Mountain more clearly where the catenaries were anchored.

Also note the house on the corner of Mountain and Brand to the left hand side of the photo. It is really impressive with the tile roof and wide porches. After the picture of the motorman smiling next to the car was taken in 1955, that great house was torn down to be replaced in 1956 by a large, pink apartment building, which is now condos and still pink.

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by GaylordWilshire

From the Times, July 26, 1936:




These shots don't offer much in the way of clues, but there is that back wall...

GSV



city-data.com


As for Ellroy--here's what I thought five years ago--I still remember My Dark Places as riveting (The Hilliker Curse, which I think was sort of a followup, less so):

My suspicion is, the back wall notwithstanding, this fragment out by the curb is Courthouse sandstone albeit painted white by some nimrod.

Possible red sandstone fragment, Ladera Park, W. 62nd Street

And not to put too fine a point on it, I'll stand by Ellroy being unreadable, his 'tough-guy' patois being more otherworldly than underworldly, sounding suspiciously like a non-tough guy trying to sound like a tough guy. His material is consistently interesting, unfortunately he then writes the words. I wish he had a ghostwriter.

[tovangar2]

Originally Posted by oldstuff

There is one more remnant that is more easily found. It is the cornerstone from the 1888 courthouse which was place in the Hill Street side of the entrance. It is located on the planter-plinth to the left of the steps on Hill street. There is a Greek Key design carved into the red sandstone.

Yes, remnants of the old County Courthouse Arizona red sandstone frame the signage/cornerstone at the current county courthouse and it's deteriorating:


JScott Los Angeles Past


gsv

The grey granite cornerstone from the 1888 structure is at the Clara Shortridge Foltz Criminal Justice Center on what's left of Poundcake Hill as JScott notes on his blog.

And, actually, the ground floor and wall of the old courthouse were both built of grey granite. Maybe those remnants were employed in Ladera Park (as they are in the wall of the Foltz building), although I don't rightly know why they would have been broken into the smaller pieces seen in Windsor Hills.


courtinfo.ca.gov

[ethereal_reality]

Michael Ryerson-



I think you could very well be right about that slab of sandstone. It doesn't appear to be serving any practical purpose.
Why else would it be there?
__

[MichaelRyerson]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

Michael Ryerson-



I think you could very well be right about that slab of sandstone. It doesn't appear to be serving any practical purpose.
Why else would it be there?
__

Looks like a trip-hazard to me. Should be removed.

[ethereal_reality]

mystery location.

"As flood waters invaded colony of film star' homes Bel Air, Calif." 3/5/38



eBay

"An automobile belonging to Bob Burns, radio and film actor which was trapped in rising
waters which inundated this fashionable suburb of Los Angeles where scores of celebrities
make their home. This was but one Southern California communities where the deluge
took a toll of scores of lives and did untold property damage."
-ACME 3/5/38

The large Seagram's billboard at far left in the photograph makes me think the photo could have been taken somewhere along Sunset Boulevard..


reverse info / as seen on eBay

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[ethereal_reality]

We've discussed the Marlborough School for Girls several times on NLA, but somehow we've missed the Marlborough Gardens apartments.

"The Marlborough Gardens, Hollywood California" (1800 Winona Blvd. per the 1917 city directory)


eBay



Today, the expanse of lawn that harbored Marlborough Gardens has given way to a monolithic apartment block.





GSV

__

[HossC]

Originally Posted by ethereal_reality

mystery location.

"As flood waters invaded colony of film star' homes Bel Air, Calif." 3/5/38



eBay

"An automobile belonging to Bob Burns, radio and film actor which was trapped in rising
waters which inundated this fashionable suburb of Los Angeles where scores of celebrities
make their home. This was but one Southern California communities where the deluge
took a toll of scores of lives and did untold property damage."
-ACME 3/5/38

The large Seagram's billboard at far left in the photograph makes me think the photo could have been taken somewhere along Sunset Boulevard.

I found the picture below in a collection of 1938 flood photos on www.vintag.es. It appears to show the same scene with a little less destruction. The caption says: "March 2, 1938: A mudslide at Harper Avenue and Sunset Boulevard caught this automobile and closed the area to traffic."


www.vintag.es

And here's the house with the turret, just above Sunset on Lincoln Terrace. The house on the right can also be seen in e_r's image.


GSV