Lansdowne Park Redevelopment Phase 1 | Completed

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Whole Foods is open today illegally
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/whole-foods-in-ottawa-to-defy-holiday-shopping-law-1.3020311

Where are the Friends when you need them??!

[JFFournier]

Originally Posted by loga0082

Silvia Logan
Loga0082

After I came back from church, I ate at the new Teriyaki at Lansdowne because it was faster than the other restaurants. I had a spring roll and rice with chicken and sprouts. It was average, but not great. I was the only person there. I went to Lansdowne park cinemas to see Cinderella. There are 3 floors . Cinderella was shown on the regular screens, so now alcohol was served. The games, potopia and Yogo cafe are in the bottom floor. You go up the escalator to see a movie. Cinderella was played in Cinema 1. The popcorn, drinks, and candies are exactly the same as Silvercity because this movie theatre is owned by Cineplex. The seating is very comfortable. They showed the VIP cinemas on the screen and they off the people the meal and alcohol. I believe that one has to order it n the bar. I might go there again, if I want to see a movie on my own.

Loga0082

Appreciate the report!

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well, in general I fully respect the rule of the law, and the principals of a democratic society... but is this not that system at work ??

The law has a fine... that fine is $xx. Whole foods want stores open... now they could spend $xx and countless years on political lobbyists... or they could spend $xx on a fine... stimulating public discussion and forcing people to ask and answer "is there anything really wrong with this?"

Absolutely nobody was harmed (well unless the theory of coerced employees is true... and there certainly seem two sides to that discussion).

If the fine was say.. $10M, then maybe the lobbyists might have more work... come to think of it, maybe the lobbyists should spend some time lobbying for bigger fines

Not sure nobody was hurt. Many law-abiding businesses probably lost business, and I am doubtful employees of a non-union, Texas-based criminal enterprise felt comfortable refusing to "volunteer" to work that day. Plus you have to wonder what other laws these miscreants are ignoring to boost their profits (food safety laws?). If this had been Walmart there would have been outrage, but because they have legions of hipster fanboys, everyone wants to give them a pass.

[JFFournier]

Blog post by Ottawa Sun's Jon Willing.

http://blogs.canoe.ca/cityhall/lansdowne/city-searching-for-horticulture-building-tenants/

The city might have received proposals for the commercial space in the Horticulture Building at Lansdowne Park.

Not 100% sure. But let’s ... hope the city received something.

I asked earlier today if the city can say how many offers came in ahead of the March 13 deadline. An assessment period for the offers had been scheduled to end tomorrow.

The city’s response: “The process of leasing commercial space in the Horticulture Building is ongoing and, as a result, the city is not in a position to discuss any details at this time.”

While the Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group runs the stadium and new retail buildings, the city retains control over what happens in the two heritage buildings.

The city was asking $40 per sq. ft. and preferred a 10-year lease. Bidders had four options to divide the 2,350 sq. ft. of space along the south part of the Horticulture Building. Essentially, it can be all used or divided into three chunks.

A 100-point evaluation system gives the most weight to the proposed lease terms.

It doesn’t look like there will be tenants this summer. The city anticipates occupancy will happen in the fall.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by ars

Instead of going after Whole Foods, we should be going after that stupid law. I agree that retail workers are entitled to holidays, but there's no problem if someone voluntarily chooses to come into work on a holiday, as long as they get paid overtime.

Is it really that big a deal that we have a few days a year when (virtually) everybody is off work?

I think you have to be careful when you suggest that something is "voluntary" in a low wage/low security industry like retail. Many of those workers don't have a lot of recourse if a boss leans on them.

Having a few holidays that are actually holidays is good for society generally, and particularly good for lower paid workers. Surely we can survive without access to organic kale chips 365 days of the year?

[loga0082]

Originally Posted by phil235

Is it really that big a deal that we have a few days a year when (virtually) everybody is off work?

I think you have to be careful when you suggest that something is "voluntary" in a low wage/low security industry like retail. Many of those workers don't have a lot of recourse if a boss leans on them.

Having a few holidays that are actually holidays is good for society generally, and particularly good for lower paid workers. Surely we can survive without access to organic kale chips 365 days of the year?

Last year, I went to Southern United States around Easter. The supermarkets in Georgia and South Carolina were opened on Sunday. Even one museum which I visited in Charleston, South Carolina was opened. I do not see any big deal about leaving shops opened on Good Friday and Easter Sunday. They are not harming anybody. Second Cup was opened on Good Friday because I had my hot chocolate. A few years, my music teacher taught voice lessons on Good Friday. What is the big deal! It is not the end of the world, if shops open on staturary holidays in Canada.

loga0082

[phil235]

Originally Posted by loga0082

Last year, I went to Southern United States around Easter. The supermarkets in Georgia and South Carolina were opened on Sunday. Even one museum which I visited in Charleston, South Carolina was opened. I do not see any big deal about leaving shops opened on Good Friday and Easter Sunday. They are not harming anybody. Second Cup was opened on Good Friday because I had my hot chocolate. A few years, my music teacher taught voice lessons on Good Friday. What is the big deal! It is not the end of the world, if shops open on staturary holidays in Canada.

loga0082

Well, I think I explained that above. It is the workers in these stores, who tend not to make very much money, who would be most harmed by having stores open on statutory holidays.

The whole point of a statutory holiday is that everyone gets it off, without fear of consequence from their employer. If you let stores open on statutory holidays, a big part of the workforce doesn't get the holiday. And it tends to be the part of the workforce that makes the least money, and has the fewest options in terms of childcare, time with family etc.

Our society places an incredibly high value on the consumer having instant access to hot chocolate or whatever it happens to be, but we seem to have trouble remembering that these things come at a cost to others. I would continue on my digression about how society is becoming progressively desensitized to the impact we have on others, but that seems a bit of a stretch for the Lansdowne Revitalization thread....

[eemy]

Lots of people have to work on holidays, and they are suitably reimbursed. There is apparently a fantasy world where things just grind to a halt because of holidays. I'm currently at a mine site in Northern Quebec and there are 800 or so people here who work every day, holiday or not, for three weeks straight before going home. In the work I do, it's the same thing; there's no such thing as a weekend or holiday.

That's not to say every job should be like that, but I find it more than a bit strange that people find the idea of working on holidays such an offensive idea when so many of us do already anyway. The fact that it's just a regular day like any other for so many of us makes it all the stranger. Chances are that if I were at home, I'd have a less productive day than usual being annoyed that businesses are closed on a Friday and twiddling my thumbs until Saturday comes along.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Lots of people have to work on holidays, and they are suitably reimbursed. There is apparently a fantasy world where things just grind to a halt because of holidays. I'm currently at a mine site in Northern Quebec and there are 800 or so people here who work every day, holiday or not, for three weeks straight before going home. In the work I do, it's the same thing; there's no such thing as a weekend or holiday.

That's not to say every job should be like that, but I find it more than a bit strange that people find the idea of working on holidays such an offensive idea when so many of us do already anyway. The fact that it's just a regular day like any other for so many of us makes it all the stranger. Chances are that if I were at home, I'd have a less productive day than usual being annoyed that businesses are closed on a Friday and twiddling my thumbs until Saturday comes along.

Just to be clear, I wasn't suggesting that no one should work on statutory holidays. Obviously emergency workers, hospital staff etc. need to work, as do some workers in continuous operation industrial establishments. The difference is that they need to be working, and they tend to be well compensated for the work. Retail workers, not so much on either count.

Is it really that difficult to find something to do on the three or four days a year when stores aren't open? I find that a bit sad to be honest.

[lrt's friend]

I wish people would read what they write. We are talking about 'statutory holidays'. It is a sad commentary about society that pace of life has to keep accelerating and that is exactly what we talking about. Why should any business be closed any time? And why should there be paid overtime if it is all part of normal business? Really, that is where we are heading. I highly doubt that non-unionized workers will get paid a higher rate just because it is a holiday.

Since when are corporations more important than the people? Holidays are designed to benefit people. Opening stores on statutory holidays mainly benefits corporations. This is all about greed and the rich shareholders.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by jeremy_haak

Lots of people have to work on holidays, and they are suitably reimbursed. There is apparently a fantasy world where things just grind to a halt because of holidays. I'm currently at a mine site in Northern Quebec and there are 800 or so people here who work every day, holiday or not, for three weeks straight before going home. In the work I do, it's the same thing; there's no such thing as a weekend or holiday.

That's not to say every job should be like that, but I find it more than a bit strange that people find the idea of working on holidays such an offensive idea when so many of us do already anyway. The fact that it's just a regular day like any other for so many of us makes it all the stranger. Chances are that if I were at home, I'd have a less productive day than usual being annoyed that businesses are closed on a Friday and twiddling my thumbs until Saturday comes along.

Are you making minwage at your mine site? Being leaned on by management to work on a holiday in shitty retail sucks. Oh but wait! Time and a half- yes! Now I'm making $16.50/hour. I'm in the money now!

Once again LRT's Friend puts it in better words then I can.

There's a huge difference in time and half if you're a making minwage or say $22/hr. (say like a rookie paramedic would) In fact the 'half' "suitably reimbursement" for the hardship at that point becomes my entire hourly wage at minwage, and twice my "suitable reimbursement". Suck it up, you're making an extra $5 an hour to work Easter Sunday/Thanksgiving. Wanna have dinner with your family- nope, Loblaws/Whole Foods/Sobeys/Starbucks "needs to be there for the community" (like they're an essential service bs) so take your extra $40 and smile.

If your a corporation that takes in yearly revenue over $1million and 80% of your sales floor employees take home min. wage (grocery stores) - and you know the stores are gonna stack the deck on these time and half days so they're paying out the least- it should be law that you close on statutory holidays.

So what if you're "annoyed that businesses are closed on a Friday & twiddling my thumbs until Saturday comes along"- are you really entitled to the constant availability of retail stores? Do something else?

10% of employees in Ontario make minwage (31% of employees under 25)- and it's those who will most be effected by this. But then again, they're gonna be taking home an extra $40 bucks for an 8 hour shift. Oh wait- yeah- the stores are just gonna bring you in for a 5 hour or 4 hr shift cause they'll reduce the time and half liability that way. So your "suitable reimbursement" becomes $27. Not counting the 45 mins of busing on a shitty Sunday/Holiday schedule with 30min headways. So that's about 2hrs of your holiday not getting paid, but not enjoying your holiday. Plus the ~$6 in bus fare for a shift you're gonna make $55 minus the ~20% (or more) in income taxes/CPP/EI/union dues if you're lucky to have a union in this type of work. So $44 take home plus the $27 "suitably reimbursement" for a net of 71, minus transportation nets you $65. If you're lucky enough to have really cheap rent- minus $21 for the daily rent liability. You now have $44 dollars of discretionary income for working a holiday on minwage and getting time and half.

Kind of got side tracked but that's the life of someone making minwage at a grocery store trying to live on their own. I've been doing it for 6 years now throughout HS and College, been doing it on my own without family in this city for 3 years now and I'm lucky enough to have a union so after two years working at this grocery store they can not schedule me less then 28 hours a week. But a lot of people get 22 hours or worse. I'm lucky I got 32 hours this week cause the store get's incredibly busy around holidays.

And yes- I've been job hunting for 6 months now.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I wish people would read what they write. We are talking about 'statutory holidays'. It is a sad commentary about society that pace of life has to keep accelerating and that is exactly what we talking about. Why should any business be closed any time? And why should there be paid overtime if it is all part of normal business? Really, that is where we are heading. I highly doubt that non-unionized workers will get paid a higher rate just because it is a holiday.

Since when are corporations more important than the people? Holidays are designed to benefit people. Opening stores on statutory holidays mainly benefits corporations. This is all about greed and the rich shareholders.

Evidence how long it's been since you've ever been in the position of someone working shitty service industry jobs earning minimum wage. By law, anyone, regardless if unionized or not, gets time-and-a-half if they work holidays. In high school, I worked for a non-unionized coffee shop and we always got time-and-a-half, as required.

Interestingly, you're hatred for corporations has led even you to ignore the human side of working on holidays: we choose to work gladly because we get paid more than we would otherwise any other day of the week. I could have worked Friday and Monday and got paid my time-half and then had the Tuesday off to enjoy and have a bit of extra money to pay my bills. The reason why people are so glad to work holidays for that extra cash is because it is impossible to live off of minimum wage. It would be surprising if someone earning minimum wage has a mortgage considering how much housing prices are jacked-up and unaffordable (is that the fault of big corporations?) or how groceries are increasingly become more expensive (blame corporations, but food prices are determined by more than CEOs arbitrarily increasing them to further line their pockets). Did you know OC Transpo fares are increasing? That's the city choosing to screw over low-income people who can already barely afford to ferry back-and-forth between their jobs and their homes.

But here's a suggestion: let's increase minimum wage to something like $20-an-hour so people can afford to live. How about that? That standard would have to be implemented by the government, which is reluctant to even increase it to $14.

"Hey, you're low-income and need more money in order to afford you bills. So we're going to do a favour for you: force you to not work certain days. You can't afford it, you don't need it as much as you need extra money, and this is more a reflection of my privilege of never having to be in your financial situation. But you have no choice in the matter because I think your employer - a corporation - is evil and greedy, so in order to punish them we're going to make it so you can't work, regardless of the fact that we're actually punishing you as well by making it so you don't get to earn more money than you would otherwise on certain, special days.

Oh, increasing your wage? Nah, we're not as concerned with that as getting a corporation to not operate on these arbitrary days we've decided everyone shouldn't work. We're less concerned with how much you earn and more about punishing the Big Guys."

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

Are you making minwage at your mine site? Being leaned on by management to work on a holiday in shitty retail sucks. Oh but wait! Time and a half- yes! Now I'm making $16.50/hour. I'm in the money now!

Once again LRT's Friend puts it in better words then I can.

There's a huge difference in time and half if you're a making minwage or say $22/hr. (say like a rookie paramedic would) In fact the 'half' "suitably reimbursement" for the hardship at that point becomes my entire hourly wage at minwage, and twice my "suitable reimbursement". Suck it up, you're making an extra $5 an hour to work Easter Sunday/Thanksgiving. Wanna have dinner with your family- nope, Loblaws/Whole Foods/Sobeys/Starbucks "needs to be there for the community" (like they're an essential service bs) so take your extra $40 and smile.

If your a corporation that takes in yearly revenue over $1million and 80% of your sales floor employees take home min. wage (grocery stores) - and you know the stores are gonna stack the deck on these time and half days so they're paying out the least- it should be law that you close on statutory holidays.

So what if you're "annoyed that businesses are closed on a Friday & twiddling my thumbs until Saturday comes along"- are you really entitled to the constant availability of retail stores? Do something else?

18% of employees in Ontario make minwage- and it's those who will most be effected by this.

Are you a paramedic? The starting salary for one is around $70,000 a year. $22 sounds rather low for that amount.

As my family does, if everyone is busy with school or working around Holidays or birthdays, we always reschedule to some other day. It's not difficult to do, but education and work are priorities. It comes from my family having been incredibly poor Italian immigrants who could barely afford to feed or clothe themselves, let alone take time off. That was a luxury reserved for the wealthy, as it is now. Working hard at school is important to us to ensure we complete a degree and be eligible for jobs with better pay, and working hard at our jobs so we can afford to live is a priority. Working holidays where we get time-and-a-half is desirable, and I'm sure many more families that were/ are poor are similar.

If you're so concerned with the way low-income people have to live, then I hope you're out advocating to increase wages significantly so that people don't have to choose between food and shelter or medicine, as the real problem isn't people working holidays for corporations, but that people don't have that option to take time off because how living expenses has gotten ridiculous (and that's more the fault of our government).

But I guess it's easy to get in a huff about corporations "taking advantage of their employees" than caring about those people who can't afford to live. Like I said, you guys must lead very privileged lives if this is what you're upset about.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by defishel

Evidence how long it's been since you've ever been in the position of someone working shitty service industry jobs earning minimum wage. By law, anyone, regardless if unionized or not, gets time-and-a-half if they work holidays.

Interestingly, you're hatred for corporations has led even you to ignore the human side of working on holidays: we choose to work gladly because we get paid more than we would otherwise any other day of the week. I could have worked Friday and Monday and got paid my time-half and then had the Tuesday off to enjoy and have a bit of extra money to pay my bills. The reason why people are so glad to work holidays for that extra cash is because it is impossible to live off of minimum wage.
But here's a suggestion: let's increase minimum wage to something like $20-an-hour so people can afford to live. How about that? That standard would have to be implemented by the government, which is reluctant to even increase it to $14.

I don't consider the extra $5.50 an hour worth it. And it's not impossible to live on your own making minwage, in my case I'm guaranteed by the collective agreement to no less than 28 hours a week. And you bet I've had to call mgmt on that a few times. March has been hard cause they'll schedule me for 28 hours then top mgmt will send out an order to cut 56 hours in the department cause easter is coming up and cause it means a $$$ performance bonus for the store manager at the end of the year so my 28 hours turns to 22. So and so's 18 becomes 10.

It's def. possible to make it happen. You just need to budget every single dollar. And find a place to rent for $600. Cause you're only gonna be taking home 1000-1200 a month.

Lets have a solid minwage pegged to inflation, strong unions in these work environments, and statutory holidays were stores close.

OMG a sensible solution???

Ahhh, I now see why they cut my hours over the past 4 weeks from 28 hours to 20/22 or less.

Vacation Pay- "the total amount of regular wages earned and vacation pay payable to the employee in the four work weeks before the work week in which the public holiday occurred, divided by 20; or" As per the ESA. This basically means it's the same as working a stat holiday even if I don't.

And why they kept me & every single part timer under 32 hours during this week as per the collective agreement they would have had to pay us 1.5 for every hour over 32 in that week.

So this is just an example of how completely corporations like Sobeys/Whole Foods/LCL stack the deck so they reduce their wage liabilities at all times. The margins are so thin. But then again, the store manager will also take home a bonus of ~20,000 for cutting all those hours and pushing out all those sales with the smallest labour liability possible.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by defishel

Are you a paramedic? The starting salary for one is around $70,000 a year. $22 sounds rather low for that amount.

As my family does, if everyone is busy with school or working around Holidays or birthdays, we always reschedule to some other day. It's not difficult to do, but education and work are priorities. It comes from my family having been incredibly poor Italian immigrants who could barely afford to feed or clothe themselves, let alone take time off. That was a luxury reserved for the wealthy, as it is now. Working hard at school is important to us to ensure we complete a degree and be eligible for jobs with better pay, and working hard at our jobs so we can afford to live is a priority. Working holidays where we get time-and-a-half is desirable, and I'm sure many more families that were/ are poor are similar.

If you're so concerned with the way low-income people have to live, then I hope you're out advocating to increase wages significantly so that people don't have to choose between food and shelter or medicine, as the real problem isn't people working holidays for corporations, but that people don't have that option to take time off because how living expenses has gotten ridiculous (and that's more the fault of our government).

But I guess it's easy to get in a huff about corporations "taking advantage of their employees" than caring about those people who can't afford to live. Like I said, you guys must lead very privileged lives if this is what you're upset about.

My dad is a paramedic. According to http://www.payscale.com/ the hourly scale is C$17.24 - C$36.05 with the average being $25. Lol- the starting salary is not 70k, call a base if you don't believe me. The numbers from payscale seem to line up with what I know from friends & family in the field. 20 years on the job you get to around $30 an hour and a take home of around 60-70. (my dad is also the union rep. cause he's at the end of his career so he can fight for the frontline more so then someone who doesn't want to rock the boat) (not in ottawa) Also 12 hour 10-10s or 7-7s suck and you don't really get a lot of time with your dad. Also, lifting obese people into the ambulance at 42 will fuck your back up.

And this is the smallest violin playing to the story of your past. Everyone has the same story. I'm working with my union to fight for the part timers at the negotiating table. Like the fact the wage scale for part timers is stacked so once you factor in inflation you're actually making less over 4 years of the agreement unless minwage gets increased by the gov't (which is always behind the real cost of living/inflation)

You're blinded by your "woe is me" point of view- the point we're making is having a legal right to 9 days off a year *shouldn't be a luxury reserved for the wealthy*.

Hell couple weeks ago I got told I couldn't complain about my hours getting cut cause I was offer the "opportunity" to work a 9am-5:30 after working a 5-11 shift the night before and I said no. Fuck off, you're gonna cut my hours so we have to fight for every single hour. Meanwhile the two tier union makes it so the full timers who do the exact same job as I do get paid literarily twice as much or $19 to stock shelves. But then again, these people have worked at that store for 8, 10, 12 years now.

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

My dad is a paramedic. According to http://www.payscale.com/ the hourly scale is C$17.24 - C$36.05 with the average being $25. Lol- the starting salary is not 70k, call a base if you don't believe me. The numbers from payscale seem to line up with what I know from friends & family in the field. 20 years on the job you get to around $30 an hour and a take home of around 60-70. (my dad is also the union rep. cause he's at the end of his career so he can fight for the frontline more so then someone who doesn't want to rock the boat) (not in ottawa) Also 12 hour 10-10s or 7-7s suck and you don't really get a lot of time with your dad. Also, lifting obese people into the ambulance at 42 will fuck your back up.

And this is the smallest violin playing to the story of your past. Everyone has the same story. I'm working with my union to fight for the part timers at the negotiating table. Like the fact the wage scale for part timers is stacked so once you factor in inflation you're actually making less over 4 years of the agreement unless minwage gets increased by the gov't (which is always behind the real cost of living/inflation)

You're blinded by your "woe is me" point of view- the point we're making is having a legal right to 9 days off a year *shouldn't be a luxury reserved for the wealthy*.

I don't need to call a base as my dad was a paramedic and he's one of the full-time instructors as Algonquin. His students, when they find employment, start out by earning that much usually if they stay in Ottawa. And considering how I'm often there in his office and speak with him and his former students who T.A. for him, I'm confident in their salaries. But if you'd like tell your dad to visit mine (tell him to speak with Stephen) and have him say he's mistaken about salaries and should inform his students they will be earning a lot less; I'm sure it would be appreciated.

"Woe is me"? Is that what you got from my story? I guess some people aren't good with reading comprehension. I never said my family was unique and that I want pity. The point you failed to understand is that we were understanding and encouraged to accept more shifts and work holidays because of the additional income, and that we can always reschedule as there is no rule that we HAVE to get together on that specific day. And I know quite a few others went through the same hardships, hence what I meant by "...and I'm sure many more families that were/ are poor are similar". Just like most low-income families being offered a shift where we earned more per hour was fantastic as it did mean we earned more. There are always other days people have off to get together - it's not like people work 24/7.

I wish I could continue arguing with you but I'd have more success convincing a brick wall. People would rather work a day where they get time-and-a-half rather than have it off because it means more money. I'm not blinded by any "woe is me" point of view, but you're evidently so blinded by your hatred of corporations and inane belief that these 9 days are sacrosanct that no one should work them. As I said to LRT'S Friend, you're not actually concerned about the little guy. You're concerned about some other issue instead.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by defishel

I wish I could continue arguing with you but I'd have more success convincing a brick wall. People would rather work a day where they get time-and-a-half rather than have it off because it means more money.

I think you need to be careful about that kind of generalization. Perhaps some people want the extra money, but I guarantee that there are lots who don't. Like those who have children that they don't get to see nearly enough because they regularly work nights and weekends. Or those who have to pay extra for daycare while they work on statutory holidays, eating up any extra earnings they might get. Or those who can't manage to easily re-schedule holidays to see their families.

The purpose of the legislation giving holidays and setting other minimum standards is to protect workers, and I strongly suspect that the majority of workers see it that way.

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by defishel

I wish I could continue arguing with you but I'd have more success convincing a brick wall. People would rather work a day where they get time-and-a-half rather than have it off because it means more money. I'm not blinded by any "woe is me" point of view, but you're evidently so blinded by your hatred of corporations and inane belief that these 9 days are sacrosanct that no one should work them. As I said to LRT'S Friend, you're not actually concerned about the little guy. You're concerned about some other issue instead.

Again- the ESA legislates- thats the employment standards act- that:

Public holiday ordinarily a working day
26. (1) If a public holiday falls on a day that would ordinarily be a working day for an employee and the employee is not on vacation that day, the employer shall give the employee the day off work and pay him or her public holiday pay for that day.

Agreement to work, ordinarily a working day
27. (1) An employee and employer may agree that the employee will work on a public holiday that would ordinarily be a working day for that employee, and if they do, section 26 does not apply to the employee.
(2) Subject to subsections (3) and (4), if an employer and an employee make an agreement under subsection (1),
(a) the employer shall pay to the employee wages at his or her regular rate for the hours worked on the public holiday and substitute another day that would ordinarily be a working day for the employee to take off work and for which he or she shall be paid public holiday pay as if the substitute day were a public holiday; or
(b) if the employee and the employer agree, the employer shall pay to the employee public holiday pay for the day plus premium pay for each hour worked on that day.

Public holiday pay
24. (1) An employee’s public holiday pay for a given public holiday shall be equal to,
(a) the total amount of regular wages earned and vacation pay payable to the employee in the four work weeks before the work week in which the public holiday occurred, divided by 20; or


That is the law as it currently stands. Now say I work 4x 32 hour weeks @ 11/hr. My holiday pay would be ~$70. I'm already getting that $70 pay for staying home and enjoying the 14 degree weather that was Friday. My premium pay for an 8 hour shift would be $44. Frankly it's not absolute that I would jump at the chance to make that $44 premium pay, but - and this isn't "blind hatred for corporations"- the reality is my shift for that holiday would most likely be a 5 hour shift so they- the corporation- would reduce their premium pay liability. Let's look at the reality of working at an LCL banner store, knowing that holiday pay is calculated by the preceding 4 weeks of wages before the holiday.

Week 5- 40 hours scheduled,
Week 4- 24 hours scheduled- a violation of my collective agreement
Week 3- 21 hrs, ditto
Week 2- 21 hrs, ditto
Week 1- 21 hrs, ditto
> Easter week- 32 hrs.
87x11,957/20 My holiday pay ~$47.85

Now had I gotten 28 hoursx4- $61.60

The dif. $13.75 (multiple this over hundreds of people)

Not a lot, but just goes to show you how they stack the deck to minimize wage liability at all times. That's not blind hatred of corporations but first hand reality of trying to live on my own on minwage (which is 100% possible) Also, why I don't like one brand pulling a stunt for publicity with the collateral damage of weakening these laws and ideals of statutory holidays. "inane belief that these 9 days are sacrosanct that no one should work them" That is thinking in absolutes and ridiculous. There is a middle ground- where we currently are, And Sunday shopping is a good example- as was posted earlier. It started with the same actions, and before long a new status quo arose. There is something peculiar with the visceral way you argue stores should be open for the sake of the little guy having the opportunity to make a couple more dollars an hour cause that's what a working class citizen should be doing on a holiday- making every sacrifice he can to earn a little more. Rather then enjoying the day off and taking home legislated holiday pay.

I don't absolutely disagree with it. I've worked holidays in the past. Just personally I'd rather not see this status quo get whittled away, and I'll take my holiday, and my pay at the same time. There's nothing wrong with stores being legislated closed on holidays. My last note on this topic.

[william91]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I don't consider the extra $5.50 an hour worth it. And it's not impossible to live on your own making minwage, in my case I'm guaranteed by the collective agreement to no less than 28 hours a week. And you bet I've had to call mgmt on that a few times. March has been hard cause they'll schedule me for 28 hours then top mgmt will send out an order to cut 56 hours in the department cause easter is coming up and cause it means a $$$ performance bonus for the store manager at the end of the year so my 28 hours turns to 22. So and so's 18 becomes 10.

It's def. possible to make it happen. You just need to budget every single dollar. And find a place to rent for $600. Cause you're only gonna be taking home 1000-1200 a month.

Lets have a solid minwage pegged to inflation, strong unions in these work environments, and statutory holidays were stores close.

OMG a sensible solution???

Ahhh, I now see why they cut my hours over the past 4 weeks from 28 hours to 20/22 or less.

Vacation Pay- "the total amount of regular wages earned and vacation pay payable to the employee in the four work weeks before the work week in which the public holiday occurred, divided by 20; or" As per the ESA. This basically means it's the same as working a stat holiday even if I don't.

And why they kept me & every single part timer under 32 hours during this week as per the collective agreement they would have had to pay us 1.5 for every hour over 32 in that week.

So this is just an example of how completely corporations like Sobeys/Whole Foods/LCL stack the deck so they reduce their wage liabilities at all times. The margins are so thin. But then again, the store manager will also take home a bonus of ~20,000 for cutting all those hours and pushing out all those sales with the smallest labour liability possible.

Maybe you're not a very good employee; and that's why they cut your hours.

[Mulder]

Originally Posted by defishel

"Hey, you're low-income and need more money in order to afford you bills. So we're going to do a favour for you: force you to not work certain days. You can't afford it, you don't need it as much as you need extra money, and this is more a reflection of my privilege of never having to be in your financial situation. But you have no choice in the matter because I think your employer - a corporation - is evil and greedy, so in order to punish them we're going to make it so you can't work, regardless of the fact that we're actually punishing you as well by making it so you don't get to earn more money than you would otherwise on certain, special days.

Oh, increasing your wage? Nah, we're not as concerned with that as getting a corporation to not operate on these arbitrary days we've decided everyone shouldn't work. We're less concerned with how much you earn and more about punishing the Big Guys."

Increasing the min. wage doesn't do much for those on min. wage. Cost of living goes up, those companies paying min. wage will be forced to pass those costs on to consumer, etc etc.
Min wage needs to be indexed to inflation, not the cause of inflation.

The government(s) would be better off giving those people in need breaks in taxes/rebates, etc.

IMO, it's also time to do away with our current religious holiday system.
We should have a fixed & floating system.
Fixed dates would be things like New Years - Family Day - Canada Day - Labour Day - Remembrance Day (Yes, I feel this should be a stat in Ontario)

While floating stat days can be used at the discretion of the employee, with some provisions given for companies that choose not to operate (such as staffing issues), so while Christians can celebrate Christmas, Muslims can celebrate Eid, Jewish - Yom Kippur, etc etc. to a maximum amount, and make sure the gov. has a list of recognized religious holidays.

It could be a tough change, I doubt it will happen for that reason. But in the end would be the right move.