Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[JHikka]

Fair enough. Carry on.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

High school football teams will be able to use the stadium - and soccer teams as well

I can just see the HS players going... This is great, but I think we are lacking in attendance haha

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

High school football teams will be able to use the stadium - and soccer teams as well

This isn't Texas, so I'm assuming attendance for high-school games will be VERY small (less than 2,000?). Wouldn't the cost of running the stadium, even when run at the very basic essentials, still be too high for these sparsely attended games?

[king10]

Originally Posted by Berklon

This isn't Texas, so I'm assuming attendance for high-school games will be VERY small (less than 2,000?). Wouldn't the cost of running the stadium, even when run at the very basic essentials, still be too high for these sparsely attended games?

I know that its not on the same scale but Hamilton ran Highschool football games out of Ivor Wynne and will do the same at THF. Crowds ranged from 1000 to 3000 as they usually host the playoffs and golden horseshoe finals.

The city owns THF, the state owns vikings stadium so both public facilities

[king10]

Originally Posted by FrankieFlowerpot

46,314 in the Big O tonight

Looking at pictures and the game on tv todays crowd looks to be slightly bigger than yesterday. Im guessing 48 250. (using the upper deck foul poles as a reference, there are more people in the outfield of the foul poles)

we'll see how my estimate holds up in an hour or so.

ps. really curious who paid for the new video board at olympic. anyone with info?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Berklon

This isn't Texas, so I'm assuming attendance for high-school games will be VERY small (less than 2,000?). Wouldn't the cost of running the stadium, even when run at the very basic essentials, still be too high for these sparsely attended games?

Yeah, I recall reading an article about it not long ago in an American paper... maybe it was even the Minn. Star-Tribune? Something about the school boards having to pay steep costs for these high school events in pro venues that hardly anyone attends.

OK, Google is my friend, I dug it up here: http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/297098961.html

It's not uncommon even here, though... minor football and HS football plays championship games at IGF, and I think some amateur hockey championships are held at MTS Centre. It must cost a fair bit and you wouldn't get more than a couple thousand fans in attendance...probably not enough to pay for those costs.

[king10]

Originally Posted by esquire

Yeah, I recall reading an article about it not long ago in an American paper... maybe it was even the Minn. Star-Tribune? Something about the school boards having to pay steep costs for these high school events in pro venues that hardly anyone attends.

OK, Google is my friend, I dug it up here: http://www.startribune.com/sports/preps/297098961.html

It's not uncommon even here, though... minor football and HS football plays championship games at IGF, and I think some amateur hockey championships are held at MTS Centre. It must cost a fair bit and you wouldn't get more than a couple thousand fans in attendance...probably not enough to pay for those costs.

In Hamilton you can rent THF and Copps out for reasonable prices. The ice time at Copps is comparable to other city owned rinks in the city. Of course this doesn't include opening concession stands.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by king10

ps. really curious who paid for the new video board at olympic. anyone with info?

Interesting...until now I had no idea they swapped out the 1992 screen.

Here are some shots: http://www.solotech.com/en/casestudy/montreals-olympic-stadium/

Who else but the RIO would have paid for it? Swanky upgrade for such a little used stadium... the pics of the stadium with zero advertising signs makes it look abandoned.

[king10]

Originally Posted by king10

Looking at pictures of the jays pregame at olympic stadium. It appears they have installed a new larger video board in place of the old one.

New



Old



Notice how the new video board is one continuous HD screen vs the old one being divided into two parts. A video board and a pixelated image board.

Originally Posted by esquire

Interesting...until now I had no idea they swapped out the 1992 screen.

Here are some shots: http://www.solotech.com/en/casestudy/montreals-olympic-stadium/

Who else but the RIO would have paid for it? Swanky upgrade for such a little used stadium... the pics of the stadium with zero advertising signs makes it look abandoned.

I posted a comparison yesterday when I noticed it.

My best guess is that it was upgraded for the Womens World Cup this summer as Olympic is a host venue. Funding was probably split a couple ways.

The new board measures 110 feet by 31 feet.

For comparison:

Rogers Centre's measures 110' by 33'
IGF 123' by 30' (x2)
BC Place 59' by 36' (x2)
TD place 60' by 40'
McMahon 50' by 30'
Ralph Wilson Stadium 164' by 34'

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Attendance for Jays in MTL

Today's attendance: 50,231
Total for the weekend: 96,545

[Matrix19]

from the webcam:

[king10]

^^^ the inside is beautiful. looks like no bad seat in the house

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by king10

Soccer isnt a fad. sorry the times are a changin. Its here to stay.

He's right though. No sense in wasting $100 million or more on a soccer specific stadium at this point until the MLS has firmly established itself...and that means not relying on constant expansion to prop up the money-losing franchises in a ponzi-like scheme. League needs to grow their revenues from corporate sponsorships and tv deals. If that happens over the coming decades and most teams are turning a profit then it would make sense to invest in a soccer-specific stadium.

Right now it appears MLS is desparate for expansion money to prop up some of the money losers as they are expanding to markets that don't even have a firm commitment for SSS. See New York FC and Minnesota FC.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Berklon

Not entirely. The new Vikings Stadium currently under construction will be multi-purpose. It can host football as well as baseball - which apparently is mainly for the University of Minnesota team and high school baseball teams... since the Twins already have a nice 4 year old baseball specific ballpark. Seems like a lot of extra money and some sacrifices just for teams that are very small draws.

Might have been a way make it go down easier with the taxpayer - that stadium is receiving around $500 million in subsidies. Those retractable seats will also expand the floor for other events like conventions. Make no mistake though - it is primarily a football stadium and the configuration of the seats emphasizes that.

[Oilkountry]

Man does that arena ever look clean. Portals make arenas look ancient. Notice the Nordique blue seats? This arena has NHL return written all over it. It's a splitting image of the house that Crosby built in Pittsburgh.
Consol energy centre 2010



Look at the difference portals make. That's always been one of my problems with the MTS Centre. in 2004 their was already a ton of arenas built with concourse access
AAC in dallas,xcel,nationwwide,Jobing ect. If they were so pressed for both bowl space and concourse space why wouldn't they adopt this design over the old portal design at least on the lower bowl? Could have easily had a 16,000 seat arena this way. and added 10 feet of concourse ...oh and its bad @$$. So much wasted space in an already cramped arena. Notice how consol and MTSC basicly have the same seating footprint yet theirs a 3000 seat difference in the 2 buildings?

[king10]

Even copps colliseum has an open concourse with no portals in the lower bowl

Will edmonton have portals?

[FrankieFlowerpot]

The term is vomitories, not portals

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

Man does that arena ever look clean. Portals make arenas look ancient. Notice the Nordique blue seats? This arena has NHL return written all over it. It's a splitting image of the house that Crosby built in Pittsburgh.
Consol energy centre 2010



Look at the difference portals make. That's always been one of my problems with the MTS Centre. in 2004 their was already a ton of arenas built with concourse access
AAC in dallas,xcel,nationwwide,Jobing ect. If they were so pressed for both bowl space and concourse space why wouldn't they adopt this design over the old portal design at least on the lower bowl? Could have easily had a 16,000 seat arena this way. and added 10 feet of concourse ...oh and its bad @$$. So much wasted space in an already cramped arena. Notice how consol and MTSC basicly have the same seating footprint yet theirs a 3000 seat difference in the 2 buildings?

If you put the open concourse where the portals are at MTS Centre you would end up with a 6000 seat lower bowl - too small by today's standards. That's where the money is made. Also, there is no room for an additional ten feet of concourse space.

[Oilkountry]

not necessarily. If they would have built the arena 15 feet lower you wouldn't lose any seating footprint and the concourse would be equally as wide as it is today (actually a little wider with it being open). The only change would be the 300 level fans would sit a little higher which is the norm in NHL arenas.

I said on the jets thread a couple weeks ago that IF I ever get the chance to pick chipmans brain, I would ask him If 2015 mark Could go back to 2002 Mark knowing what he knows now. What would he do differently when designing the MTS Centre? I bet he would have built a 17,000 seat building with 80 suites.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

I said on the jets thread a couple weeks ago that IF I ever get the chance to pick chipmans brain, I would ask him If 2015 mark Could go back to 2002 Mark knowing what he knows now. What would he do differently when designing the MTS Centre? I bet he would have built a 17,000 seat building with 80 suites.

Probably safe to say that the answer is yes. The MTS Centre always seemed like a NHL rink that was hedging its bets... just big enough to accommodate the NHL but still fairly modest and in some ways spartan to remain profitable even if that league had never returned. It always seemed that the MTS Centre had one foot in the AHL and one foot in the NHL... it's a good rink but it's still fairly basic.

Building something more lavish for, say, $220 million (which the Glendale rink cost around that time, but in US dollars) would have been a huge risk given that a NHL team was not guaranteed. Remember, less than 1/3 the cost of the $133 million it took to build the MTS Centre came from government. Chipman had to play it safe.