ATLANTA | Development Thread V

[scania]

Seriously people, this is not that bad. It might not be stuck in the parameters of your liking...but I think people on here need to be more open-minded and understand reality. There are plenty of young professionals who would prefer this style of building/tower to live. Also, I'm not sure where some of you live...but this thing about stucco looking like crap is no longer an issue. The stucco property Post Statford in Bulkhead has been around for maybe around 15 years, and still it looks awesome. It still demands high rent considering what it offers(though I know some of this is due to Bulkhead demands the highest rent in the city). The negativity towards this tower is hilarious. It's in a location that most of you haven't been, or at least rarely ever frequent. At the end of the day, it might not be your taste, nor mine, but its something a lot of people would find attractive.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by scania

Seriously people, this is not that bad. It might not be stuck in the parameters of your liking...but I think people on here need to be more open-minded and understand reality. There are plenty of young professionals who would prefer this style of building/tower to live. Also, I'm not sure where some of you live...but this thing about stucco looking like crap is no longer an issue. The stucco property Post Statford in Bulkhead has been around for maybe around 15 years, and still it looks awesome. It still demands high rent considering what it offers(though I know some of this is due to Bulkhead demands the highest rent in the city). The negativity towards this tower is hilarious. It's in a location that most of you haven't been, or at least rarely ever frequent. At the end of the day, it might not be your taste, nor mine, but its something a lot of people would find attractive.

I couldn't agree more with your statement. I am frankly shocked too by the negativity concerning this project. I guess people on this forum have grown accustomed to rectangular glass boxes and concrete. If anything this building appears to be more high-end than most of the projects in the pipeline. Also, it is architecturally similar to the Post Alexander Phase II project across the street, except that it is not white stucco.

[AtlantaMustang]

The problem isn't the architecture, which is very bland, but so are most other towers going up. This building seems to almost go out of it's way to completely ignore the street and faces a private turnaround and deck entrance. It doesn't need retail to front a street well. Look at the Amli projects going in by Lenox, or hell, even Skyhouse Buckhead fronts the street better. Neither have retail, but they don't help contribute even more to a complete dead zone, and at least acknowledge that the street exists.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

The problem isn't the architecture, which is very bland, but so are most other towers going up. This building seems to almost go out of it's way to completely ignore the street and faces a private turnaround and deck entrance. It doesn't need retail to front a street well. Look at the Amli projects going in by Lenox, or hell, even Skyhouse Buckhead fronts the street better. Neither have retail, but they don't help contribute even more to a complete dead zone, and at least acknowledge that the street exists.

Part of the issue with this project is that it was zoned 15 years ago to be a companion to the Park Avenue tower. If they change it too much they might have to start all over. In today's world the DRC would probably push them to bring it closer to the street.

In my opinion the building itself looks okay. Reminds me of other Buckhead towers like the Brookwood and the Phoenix.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

The problem isn't the architecture, which is very bland, but so are most other towers going up. This building seems to almost go out of it's way to completely ignore the street and faces a private turnaround and deck entrance. It doesn't need retail to front a street well. Look at the Amli projects going in by Lenox, or hell, even Skyhouse Buckhead fronts the street better. Neither have retail, but they don't help contribute even more to a complete dead zone, and at least acknowledge that the street exists.

My house is on Longleaf Drive so this project will be my neighbor...so I know the area. In terms of it completely ignoring the street, the site is about 5 - 10 feet above the street grade. Additionally, that side of Phipps Blvd is rarely used by pedestrians even though it has sidewalks. This area is not urban by any means. Dense yes, but not urban. Having two malls close by kills the economics of active mixed-use projects.

[A-town]

Originally Posted by 1lifealex

Financing had nothing to do with the decision to make the tower shorter it was traffic concerns

I’d be more willing to believe that if the building wasn’t of an inferior design.

Originally Posted by scania

Seriously people, this is not that bad. It might not be stuck in the parameters of your liking...but I think people on here need to be more open-minded and understand reality. There are plenty of young professionals who would prefer this style of building/tower to live. Also, I'm not sure where some of you live...but this thing about stucco looking like crap is no longer an issue. The stucco property Post Statford in Bulkhead has been around for maybe around 15 years, and still it looks awesome. It still demands high rent considering what it offers(though I know some of this is due to Bulkhead demands the highest rent in the city). The negativity towards this tower is hilarious. It's in a location that most of you haven't been, or at least rarely ever frequent. At the end of the day, it might not be your taste, nor mine, but its something a lot of people would find attractive.

I understand you wanting to be positive but this design sucks. Stucco doesn’t look bad if used properly on a 5-story apartment building. But the problem with using stucco on a high-rise is that is reduces the amount of
glass used as a wall, thereby reducing your views. In a Novare building 100% of the walls are glass. In this building it looks more like 60% glass. Which means this building isn’t taking full advantage of the unobstructive views that lot offers. A glass tower would’ve been better for that lot for this very reason. This isn’t what people living in Buckhead want and I can point to the last building boom to back that up. Sovereign has sold all of their units while The Mandarin and St. Regis haven’t. And the major reason why is because people want floor to ceiling windows with all glass walls. And I think it’s naive to think young professionals would choose this building over a Skyhouse type development.

[scania]

Originally Posted by A-town

I’d be more willing to believe that if the building wasn’t of an inferior design.



I understand you wanting to be positive but this design sucks. Stucco doesn’t look bad if used properly on a 5-story apartment building. But the problem with using stucco on a high-rise is that is reduces the amount of
glass used as a wall, thereby reducing your views. In a Novare building 100% of the walls are glass. In this building it looks more like 60% glass. Which means this building isn’t taking full advantage of the unobstructive views that lot offers. A glass tower would’ve been better for that lot for this very reason. This isn’t what people living in Buckhead want and I can point to the last building boom to back that up. Sovereign has sold all of their units while The Mandarin and St. Regis haven’t. And the major reason why is because people want floor to ceiling windows with all glass walls. And I think it’s naive to think young professionals would choose this building over a Skyhouse type development.

Being naive is comical. My ex-girlfriend who is a lawyer here in the city, is from NY(Manhattan). She's between 25-35. Though I perso love floor to ceiling windows, she's prefers the opposite. She loves windows, but feels that walls gives a more high end look and feel. She's not a fan of all glass towers. There are plenty of people who have that same opinion.
As far as Sovereign, St. Regis, and the Mandarin, it is absurd to compare them. In real estate, you have to nderstand that the price point of The Mandarin and St. Regis will typically take much longer to sell. Also, the price point of Sovereign did drop, which opened the market to a lot more buyers. Keep in mind that the W Hotel Residences downtown which is a shiny glass tower, has had an extremely hard time trying to sell those units.

[gttx]

It's just ugly. I could spend all night describing why and how. But at the end of the day, it's just ugly.

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

This area is not urban by any means. Dense yes, but not urban.

And the reason it's not urban is because crap like this keeps getting built.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by shivtim

And the reason it's not urban is because crap like this keeps getting built.

Ding ding ding!

So instead of learning from our mistakes, we should build more of the same.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by AtlantaMustang

Ding ding ding!

So instead of learning from our mistakes, we should build more of the same.

This project is not urban because North Buckheads streets are not aligned in grid (we have super blocks), we have 2 major malls and most buildings are w/o street level retail and predomiance of sigle family homes and office buildings. Not to mention this area is almost fully built-out.

The most North Buckhead can apire to do is add density, parks and increase mass transit options. To argue for urban architecture in essentially a mall parking lot seems like a pointless arguement.

[RudyJK]

Originally Posted by A-town

And I think it’s naive to think young professionals would choose this building over a Skyhouse type development.

Well if the 'young professionals' don't like it, for God's sake it shouldn't be built!

Really, it's not that bad considering its location. Actually, it's kind of perfect for its location considering it directly borders a single family neighborhood and a massive church. Not every residential tower in Atlanta needs nail salons and overpriced bars that cater to 'young professionals' on the ground floor.

[AtlantaMustang]

Originally Posted by RudyJK

Well if the 'young professionals' don't like it, for God's sake it shouldn't be built!

Really, it's not that bad considering its location. Actually, it's kind of perfect for its location considering it directly borders a single family neighborhood and a massive church. Not every residential tower in Atlanta needs nail salons and overpriced bars that cater to 'young professionals' on the ground floor.

Does Skyhouse Buckhead even have ground floor retail? I'm not calling for a change in use, I'm saying you can work with the same building program and not front a street uneccesarily with setbacks or blank walls. Why shouldn't we be calling for better urban design? The new townhouses across the intersection front the street really well and they're not bars or nail salons. There are plenty of examples around the city that don't include retail but still manage to address the street.

[RocketSurgeon]

The Phipps tower design doesn't bother me... I feel like some of you take one glance at these things and think "World class? No? Then shit." It's boring but that doesn't make it hideous. Where do you see stucco, anyway? I don't see stucco. Maybe I'm blind.

I'm not buying the argument that it doesn't need to engage the street, though. Isn't this just a block from Peachtree where the Target and Publix are? Phipps isn't historically very urban but there's street presence mixed in with the newer stuff and a small grid to the south. It seems if an area is in transition then developers should be following where things are going rather than where they were twenty years ago. I'll excuse lackluster designs for infill all day long but there's no reason to go out of your way to make a neighborhood less flexible. It's not hard to make a building that people can drive and walk to easily.

Midtown-wise, I noticed the University House tower crane was taken down yesterday... and was something going on at the Modera site today? I saw a big portable crane that direction but didn't go by to see exactly where it was set up.

[RudyJK]

The first Park Avenue tower is encased in a park. A pretty large one. I'm sure the condo owners like it that way. That's probably the reason this tower will be similarly sited. The perimeter sidewalk of this property is very pleasant - sidewalks and trees - nothing fancy.

The rest of the immediate neighborhood to the north and east follow that program. Barriers of sidewalks and trees between building and streets. The odd man out is actually the new cluster of modernist town-homes on the NW corner of Phipps and Longleaf - spoken of earlier I believe. Their intrusion on the street breaks the fabric here. Not necessarily in a terrible way, but break it they do.

Where will this tower be sited exactly in relation to the old one? What changes will evolve from the next DRC meeting in April? And what are the plans for the rest of this wooded park-like developments? We'll see soon.

[Atlanta3000]

Take a look at the site plan

http://livablebuckhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1000-Park-Avenue-LBI-3-4-2015.pdf

I think they did the best they could considering the topology of the land, perserving the views for the 40 story condo beside it and limiting the shadows cast on the Million $ townhomes and single family homes across the street. But to argue that Skyhouse could teach this project a lesson, is down right stupidity. At least Wood Partners is putting the parking garage below grade to the physical structure and not an external parking deck (that always looks like shit). Which is how parking is done on higher-end projects.

[Atlanta3000]

Glass Towers Are Cheaper to Build and Don't Hold Up
Which furthers my point the 1000 Buckhead project is higher-end development.

There are several articles on this topic and I just selected the first one
http://www.troymedia.com/2014/11/06/the-high-cost-of-owning-glass-condos/

Developers will tell you that they construct buildings the way they do is because they sell. It’s true that consumers are drawn to the modern look of glass-enclosed structures, but it’s also true that developers like glass houses because they are cheaper to build.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

Take a look at the site plan

http://livablebuckhead.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/1000-Park-Avenue-LBI-3-4-2015.pdf

I think they did the best they could considering the topology of the land, perserving the views for the 40 story condo beside it and limiting the shadows cast on the Million $ townhomes and single family homes across the street. But to argue that Skyhouse could teach this project a lesson, is down right stupidity. At least Wood Partners is putting the parking garage below grade to the physical structure and not an external parking deck (that always looks like shit). Which is how parking is done on higher-end projects.

Thanks for the link. You're right to bring up the other factors but I'd hardly say they did their best when it has that much pavement and lacks any sort of pedestrian connection... it's actually a bit worse than I thought. That was clearly designed for cars with humans and greenspace as an afterthought.

Considering the traffic situation today I'm curious to see how that area will get on if they continue with that kind of car-centric development. With so few roads I'm surprised it was ever zoned for that much density to begin with, but stricter design requirements could mitigate some of the problem.

[shivtim]

I don't see how anyone in their right mind can look at that site plan and not think it's a complete disaster for urbanity and walkability. The east face is literally a 50ft wall of blank concrete. It's almost impossible to enter the building on foot; the sidewalks don't even connect. It's a walled-off, car-only fortress.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by RudyJK

Well if the 'young professionals' don't like it, for God's sake it shouldn't be built!

Really, it's not that bad considering its location. Actually, it's kind of perfect for its location considering it directly borders a single family neighborhood and a massive church. Not every residential tower in Atlanta needs nail salons and overpriced bars that cater to 'young professionals' on the ground floor.

i think we need a pub at the base of every new condo tower. who's with me?