YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[osirisboy]

Air canada had flights to Paris and ended them in the 90s? How come?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Air canada had flights to Paris and ended them in the 90s? How come?

My understanding is it was an underperforming route. I believe it was going to be seasonal even then anyway. If AC was to venture back into a direct YVR-CDG, I think this is a prime rouge market. AC would have to rely more on O&D traffic than AF which can also use CDG as a transit point for its vast network there.

Perhaps the market has changed over the last 20 years or so.

I am surprised at the misquotes regarding the new AF route. Even the yvr.ca press release today mentions the route is ending in October. It is definitely going year-round now.

Also, in the Vancouver Sun article they are quoting some travel agent specialising in Europe travel and they mention this route hasn't existed since the 1990s. Well.... Air Transat has operated YVR-CDG seasonally for years now.

[Spork]

I would think they would go daily KLM AMS before daily AF CDG, no? I have never been to CDG, but isn't AMS better connected from our neck of the woods?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Spork

I would think they would go daily KLM AMS before daily AF CDG, no? I have never been to CDG, but isn't AMS better connected from our neck of the woods?

KLM is daily for the summer scheds already. Winter goes down to 5 weekly but I keep hearing rumblings this will go to daily. I actually think AF will go to daily in the summer at least sooner than we think.

In any event the new AF route certainly boosts Skyteam from YVR to Europe.

Even in winter, and if KL sticks to only 5 weekly:

Star Alliance - 24 weekly summer / 14 weekly winter
Skyteam 12 weekly summer / 8 weekly winter
Oneworld 12 weekly summer / 7 weekly winter

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Transborder mini update
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UA's latest changes has them throwing more 739s and 320s at YVR and fewer 319s in the upcoming summer scheds and on some days in June YVR-DEN is all mainline on all three daily flights. Been ages since I've seen that.

DL putting some 757 action back on the ATL route.

AA is putting their newer E75s on one of the two daily LAX flights in June/July - same number of seats as the CR9 its replacing

[Vagabond]

An interesting article from a major Indian paper on AC's upcoming re-entry into that market (YYZ-DEL starts Nov 1).

While he doesn't mention YVR, AC's VP Global Sales mentions their goal is to go daily on YYZ-DEL, expand flights to Mumbai, and grow AC's share of the overall Canada-India market by 25% in the next 2-3 years. He also mentions that the route will be a particularly good fit for AC's new 787-900s (they've ordered 50, according to the article).

Given this context, I would wager that a YVR-DEL flight is not inconceivable in the next couple of years, especially if bilateral traffic is picking up the way the article suggests. At the very least, it offers another good one-stop alternative between YVR & India, and with half decent timings too (no middle of the night arrival, etc.)

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

An interesting article from a major Indian paper on AC's upcoming re-entry into that market (YYZ-DEL starts Nov 1).

While he doesn't mention YVR, AC's VP Global Sales mentions their goal is to go daily on YYZ-DEL, expand flights to Mumbai, and grow AC's share of the overall Canada-India market by 25% in the next 2-3 years. He also mentions that the route will be a particularly good fit for AC's new 787-900s (they've ordered 50, according to the article).

Given this context, I would wager that a YVR-DEL flight is not inconceivable in the next couple of years, especially if bilateral traffic is picking up the way the article suggests. At the very least, it offers another good one-stop alternative between YVR & India, and with half decent timings too (no middle of the night arrival, etc.)

I used to naïvely think that having Emirates to Vancouver (or any M3) would be a sign that we had really reached a certain status.
If EK had in fact gained rights here, the possibilty of an eventual direct YVR - DEL route would have been that much less.

Now the M3 are giving the USA second thoughts, too, not to mention others. Show the M3 YVR can do quite well for itself without them. Interesting read:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsb...re-winning-the-battle-for-the-skies.html

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

While he doesn't mention YVR, AC's VP Global Sales mentions their goal is to go daily on YYZ-DEL, expand flights to Mumbai, and grow AC's share of the overall Canada-India market by 25% in the next 2-3 years. He also mentions that the route will be a particularly good fit for AC's new 787-900s (they've ordered 50, according to the article).

Wow! I had no idea that Air Canada had invested that heavily in Dreamliners. Wikipedia's entry on the Dreamliner orders by airline still shows Air Canada has being on the books for 37, but there is no date stamp on the page so Air Canada may well have exercised some options or added new orders. Air Canada may have also entered into lease agreements with the major aircraft lessors and that could explain the difference. Bottom line, whether it's 37 or 50 Dreamliners on order, that is a globally significant investment in that aircraft type.

I have been fairly certain that Air Canada would be keen on the Dreamliner since many of the existing and potential future routes connecting Canadian cities to destinations around the would fit the 'long, thin' route profile that the Dreamliner was designed to open up. I absolutely expect that in time YVR will be the beneficiary of numerous Dreamliner routes once the priority routes out of YYZ are served.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Wow! I had no idea that Air Canada had invested that heavily in Dreamliners. Wikipedia's entry on the Dreamliner orders by airline still shows Air Canada has being on the books for 37, but there is no date stamp on the page so Air Canada may well have exercised some options or added new orders. Air Canada may have also entered into lease agreements with the major aircraft lessors and that could explain the difference. Bottom line, whether it's 37 or 50 Dreamliners on order, that is a globally significant investment in that aircraft type.

I have been fairly certain that Air Canada would be keen on the Dreamliner since many of the existing and potential future routes connecting Canadian cities to destinations around the would fit the 'long, thin' route profile that the Dreamliner was designed to open up. I absolutely expect that in time YVR will be the beneficiary of numerous Dreamliner routes once the priority routes out of YYZ are served.

YVR was supposed to get new AC Dreamliner routes to Brisbane and Frankfurt this year, but there's been no sound on that so far..

[Johnny Aussie]

From twitter:

“@airlineroute: Air New Zealand expands planned daily Auckland - Vancouver service from 6 to 8 weeks, from 07DEC15 to 31JAN16”

The daily service is being moved forward two weeks into early December.

[Johnny Aussie]

I apologise profusely for focusing on the positives and the "what we have" versus "what we could have" but....

Zowie! I was expecting less than 4% total growth.

http://yvr.ca/Libraries/Aviation_Marketing/Traffic_Update_Feb_2015.sflb.ashx

Overall up 6%. Total international up 9.1%.

Every single sector up... Transborder and Europe continuing double digit growth. And Asia Pacific up a respectable 6.5%.

Total up over 80,000, Transborder alone was up over 40,000, compared to Feb 2014... who would have thought?

And those cargo stats?! Up 25.9%.... Wow!!

Certainly no slow down on the West Coast....

[casper]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

Wow! I had no idea that Air Canada had invested that heavily in Dreamliners. Wikipedia's entry on the Dreamliner orders by airline still shows Air Canada has being on the books for 37, but there is no date stamp on the page so Air Canada may well have exercised some options or added new orders. Air Canada may have also entered into lease agreements with the major aircraft lessors and that could explain the difference. Bottom line, whether it's 37 or 50 Dreamliners on order, that is a globally significant investment in that aircraft type.

I have been fairly certain that Air Canada would be keen on the Dreamliner since many of the existing and potential future routes connecting Canadian cities to destinations around the would fit the 'long, thin' route profile that the Dreamliner was designed to open up. I absolutely expect that in time YVR will be the beneficiary of numerous Dreamliner routes once the priority routes out of YYZ are served.

On top of that they have been adding new 777-300, adding used 767-300 to Rogue and deciding to keep the 330 and 767 that the Dreamliners were intendant to replace.

[Vagabond]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

"While he doesn't mention YVR..."

Actually, to eat my own words, according to another Indian paper (the Business Standard), Vancouver was mentioned in the same press conference:

After launching the 13.5 hour flight to New Delhi, it (Air Canada) would consider operating Toronto-Mumbai flights. Later, it would even consider a New Delhi-Vancouver flight.

Now AC has probably been "considering" a YVR-DEL flight since, well... forever, but at least now they are talking publicly about pairing the new 789s with this illusive route.

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Vagabond

Now AC has probably been "considering" a YVR-DEL flight since, well... forever, but at least now they are talking publicly about pairing the new 789s with this illusive route.

I really hope YVR-DEL happens, but I suspect we'll see those 789s on Brisbane or Melbourne -- or maybe even CAN -- first.

Interesting that Delta is codesharing on the new CDG route. Wonder how many US passengers would take this option?

[Large Cat]

We really do need direct flights to India from here. I have several friends who have to make 3+ connections and the trip takes over 24 hours. YVR-DEL would be a lifesaver for them and would allow them to visit home much more often than they do.

[yyc_engineer]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

We really do need direct flights to India from here

What about going year-round with ACR YYX-YYZ and timing it for a seamless connection with YYZ-DEL. Would be attractive to those living South of the Fraser. This allows feed from both YVR and YYX to the Delhi flight, with 100% of Lower Mainland catchment area covered.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

We really do need direct flights to India from here. I have several friends who have to make 3+ connections and the trip takes over 24 hours. YVR-DEL would be a lifesaver for them and would allow them to visit home much more often than they do.

Really? 3+ connections?

Right now there are over ten one-stop options that are available from YVR-DEL. Not including via YYZ or anywhere in the US. I realise not everyone traveling from Vancouver to India is going to Delhi, but most would be. In addition, all of these are shorter than via YYZ and in a lot of cases substantially shorter:

NRT, ICN, PEK, PVG, TPE, HKG, LHR, AMS, FRA, CDG and soon KIX as well. I wouldn't be surprised if China Southern expands into India and therefore, flights via CAN would be another good option.

The problem with a direct flight from YVR to DEL (the obvious destination in India) they would have to pull enough passengers off all of the one stop options at a decent price to make the low yielding route viable. It would be very challenging. Please understand the Vancouver-India market is just over a third that of Toronto's. And after YVR, the next largest Canada-India market is less than one third of Vancouver's. So even drawing from the rest of Western Canada wouldn't even come close to Toronto's. There is no doubt there is a huge YVR-India market, but serving it profitably is the hurdle.

[yyc_engineer]

This may be a stupid question, but can domestic pax walk over to the International Pier (D gates area)?

I'm flying YYC-YVR-YYJ tomorrow with 2.5 hour layover and it'd be cool to check out the parked Asian widebody planes but for some reason I recall that you can't walk over the D gate area unless you're flying Internationally. (which would be different from YYC where you can walk between Domestic and International (non-US) gates).

I think there is a security desk/commissionaire or something that checks your boarding card - maybe I can sweet talk them? Can anyone confirm? Thanks!

[MalcolmTucker]

Isn't it a duty free issue? So the shops don't have to check?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

This may be a stupid question, but can domestic pax walk over to the International Pier (D gates area)?

I'm flying YYC-YVR-YYJ tomorrow with 2.5 hour layover and it'd be cool to check out the parked Asian widebody planes but for some reason I recall that you can't walk over the D gate area unless you're flying Internationally. (which would be different from YYC where you can walk between Domestic and International (non-US) gates).

I think there is a security desk/commissionaire or something that checks your boarding card - maybe I can sweet talk them? Can anyone confirm? Thanks!

If you are on twitter or Facebook, just send them a message you may get to see AF as well tomorrow.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

What about going year-round with ACR YYX-YYZ and timing it for a seamless connection with YYZ-DEL. Would be attractive to those living South of the Fraser. This allows feed from both YVR and YYX to the Delhi flight, with 100% of Lower Mainland catchment area covered.

That's not really advantageous though, as YVR and YYZ are nearly the exact same distance to India, so all you'd be doing is tacking on another 4,500kms to the journey.

Transferring in Toronto to India is just completely out of the way.

Originally Posted by yyc_engineer

This may be a stupid question, but can domestic pax walk over to the International Pier (D gates area)?

I'm flying YYC-YVR-YYJ tomorrow with 2.5 hour layover and it'd be cool to check out the parked Asian widebody planes but for some reason I recall that you can't walk over the D gate area unless you're flying Internationally. (which would be different from YYC where you can walk between Domestic and International (non-US) gates).

I think there is a security desk/commissionaire or something that checks your boarding card - maybe I can sweet talk them? Can anyone confirm? Thanks!

If all else fails, go out of the security cleared zone, and up to the observation floor. You should be able to see some of them from up there and get a good vantage of the apron/runways. Definitely a good plan B, perhaps even better than getting to the international departures zone.