Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[red-paladin]

I do agree that park and rides in certain locations like Scott Road and WCE stations Poco and east are appropriate.

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Actually, we're trying to do both. The problem with park and rides is that they reduce ridership on local bus service in favour of the transit backbones. If there aren't enough local bus users then it's uneconomical to provide good local bus service, and that hurts the people who can't drive to the rapid transit line.

The thing that bothers me is there is more concern on increasing the performance of a bus route than the desires and well being of the riders themselves. Being forced to a bus to get to a train will not convince ANY person to have access to a car to take the bus. And this access can be either owning a car, or being driven by someone with a car (i.e. Kiss and Ride, carpool). Again, I don't see why a person in Westwood Plateau need to spend 30 minutes getting to Coquitlam Central when he can do it in 5 with a car. If that park and ride was not there, he will simply drive away.

As for the people that need it, they can reduce capacity by using smaller, cheaper to run shuttle buses. So those people who cannot drive (i.e. seniors, teens below driving age, disabled) would still have the service that they need. As for development, there is nothing stopping people from building more condos, offices and malls. But there is also nothing stopping them by incorporating a Park and Ride within such developments, and it will even earn them some extra dollars in the process.

Ultimately, the desire to FORCE people into a bus by denying them direct access to a more desirable transit system (i.e. A TRAIN, whether its Skytrain or WCE) is nothing more than social engineering at its finest. It doesn't work, it will never work, and such mindset is the reason why those powers to be that make this stupid decision (aka Translink, some mayors), simply CANNOT be trusted.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

As for the people that need it, they can reduce capacity by using smaller, cheaper to run shuttle buses.

The great majority of the operating cost of a bus route is paying the driver, so smaller buses don't really save you all that much.

Ultimately, the desire to FORCE people into a bus by denying them direct access to a more desirable transit system (i.e. A TRAIN, whether its Skytrain or WCE) is nothing more than social engineering at its finest.

Society simply can't afford to give everyone everything that they want. Maybe some day, but not today. Meanwhile, we have to make choices about what we can practicably afford to provide to benefit the greatest number of people. The drama comes when people disagree on what that is.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

The thing that bothers me is there is more concern on increasing the performance of a bus route than the desires and well being of the riders themselves. Being forced to a bus to get to a train will not convince ANY person to have access to a car to take the bus. And this access can be either owning a car, or being driven by someone with a car (i.e. Kiss and Ride, carpool). Again, I don't see why a person in Westwood Plateau need to spend 30 minutes getting to Coquitlam Central when he can do it in 5 with a car. If that park and ride was not there, he will simply drive away.

As for the people that need it, they can reduce capacity by using smaller, cheaper to run shuttle buses. So those people who cannot drive (i.e. seniors, teens below driving age, disabled) would still have the service that they need. As for development, there is nothing stopping people from building more condos, offices and malls. But there is also nothing stopping them by incorporating a Park and Ride within such developments, and it will even earn them some extra dollars in the process.

Ultimately, the desire to FORCE people into a bus by denying them direct access to a more desirable transit system (i.e. A TRAIN, whether its Skytrain or WCE) is nothing more than social engineering at its finest. It doesn't work, it will never work, and such mindset is the reason why those powers to be that make this stupid decision (aka Translink, some mayors), simply CANNOT be trusted.

I don't mind Park and Rides either in certain circumstances, but for the most part I'm not a fan. I still think TOD is the way to go, and park and rides would not always be economical for developers. It's not cheap to dig those big underground parking lots, and parkades are a non-starter for me in urban areas. Obviously it's more convenient, but I think it comes with a lot more cons that outweigh that one pro.

And if people never take the feeder buses, how are they supposed to evolve into frequent, direct and convenient buses? If we put a park and ride at every station, how many riders would be taken away from the local bus routes? There would likely only be enough for very infrequent, community shuttle buses. I mean I suppose the Calgary model is considered successful, but I'd rather be able to get to stuff not on the SkyTrain here too. Our excellent bus system would not be anywhere close to what it is today if we had park and rides everywhere.

Nobody's forcing you to take the bus anywhere. If you want to drive, drive. Clearly our transit system and ridership numbers are doing just fine without park and rides, and have resulted in a great landscape to boot. If there are people who think they're too good for the bus, that's on them, not on TransLink to give them ample room to park. And if this is a reason that TransLink and the mayors cannot be trusted, then it looks like you're just looking for a reason to not trust them.

Ultimately, you're looking at this from a driver's perspective and I'm looking at it from a transit user's perspective, so we'll always look at it with opposite views.

[ClaytonA]

So if you were responsible for transportation, Queetz, you'd use expensive land next to Skytrain stations to park cars, hopefully at least as pay parking (because that's not been controversial for BRT lots in South Surrey...), and increase the subsidy to the bus system for the 350,000 people [1] who can't or don't drive cars? Do you want the transportation system to be even more expensive?

Never mind pesky things like demographic trends such as the senior population, over 65, which is increasing from 14% to 22% of the population by 2045. Appreciate your point of view, but I'll trust the experienced people that are paid and base their livelihood on figuring out the best way to do these sorts of things and have all the info and consequences infront of them. The experts aren't always right, and, I'm sure if you're married, you've heard from your patient and understanding wife that you should just call a mechanic to fix your car instead of trying to do it yourself as well. Probably that mechanic can fix the car faster and cheaper generally too since they have the right tools for the job.



[1] This number is conservative, not all people with driver's licenses commute or otherwise drive - e.g. some use driver's licenses as ID.

2011 Canada Census, Lower Mainland population 277,593 + 2,313,328 = 2,590,921

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recens...g&T=311&SR=11&S=51&O=A&RPP=5&PR=59&CMA=0

Children under 14 at 354,450 + 51,865 = 406,315

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/census-recens...=1&View=1&tableID=21&queryID=5&PRCode=59

therefore 2.6 million - 400k = 2.2 million

1.85 million active driver's licenses or just use the working age population from the 2011 census data from immediate link above.
http://www.icbc.com/about-icbc/newsroom/Documents/population.pdf

2.2 million - 1.85 million = approx 350,000

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The great majority of the operating cost of a bus route is paying the driver, so smaller buses don't really save you all that much.Society simply can't afford to give everyone everything that they want. Maybe some day, but not today. Meanwhile, we have to make choices about what we can practicably afford to provide to benefit the greatest number of people. The drama comes when people disagree on what that is.

Originally Posted by GlassCity

There would likely only be enough for very infrequent, community shuttle buses. I mean I suppose the Calgary model is considered successful, but I'd rather be able to get to stuff not on the SkyTrain here too. Our excellent bus system would not be anywhere close to what it is today if we had park and rides everywhere.

Blah blah blah!

All the comments here are once again missing the point! Transit is a public service, its not meant to make money but rather to SERVE the people. Frankly, its not even suppose to be the most cost effective but rather the most comprehensive. So all the arguments about the driver being expensive, hence his vehicle must carry the most people and so on are just silly! I don't mind Translink spending more money or even asking for more money as long as it goes back to the people that they serve, not to make stations pretty or increase the paycheques of those that work there.

At the end of the day, what is important is those in need are serviced, and those that want to use a specific transit service (i.e. rail transit) are given the choice to get there by whatever means they desire. So if the ridership will only require a shuttle bus as oppose to a 40 footer, then so be it! If Park and Rides are what will bring more people into trains, hence the overall transit system, then so be it! That doesn't mean people who want to take the train should be forced to take a bus and add 30 minutes to their commute time because Translink is required to cover some cost, or to achieve some ridership metric SSP Vancouver forumers can use to brag to the other SSP forumers in other parts of the website that Metro Vancouver has higher bus ridership per capita than Seattle or Calgary.

As far as Park and Rides and pay parkings, they already do that in Coquitlam Central...$3 a day. It used to be $1 a day and used mostly by WCE riders. I have no issue if Translink wants to charge Park and Rides beside Skytrain stations, as long as people are given the option to park their cars beside Skytrain stations!

[SpongeG]

portland's system has a lot of park n rides and they are always well used and handy, the one i have used was in a strip mall with its own retail/office at ground level, parking above and the parking was free

[red-paladin]

Nice to see the tracks and switches getting installed:


http://wcs.pbaeng.com/projects/R1_Transit

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I don't mind Translink spending more money or even asking for more money as long as it goes back to the people that they serve, not to make stations pretty or increase the paycheques of those that work there.

So... why are you voting no?

[queetz@home]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

So... why are you voting no?

Who says I'm voting no? My ballot is still here and I'm still on the fence, but admittedly leaning towards "No". We shall see though...but its not about me, is it?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Who says I'm voting no? My ballot is still here and I'm still on the fence, but admittedly leaning towards "No". We shall see though...but its not about me, is it?

You've been the one ranting about PST and saying voting no will just move the funding to property taxes which is "more fair". Just go read your own posts.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

Blah blah blah!

This as a response to my post in which you highlighted:

Society simply can't afford to give everyone everything that they want.

I think you're missing a very important point.

[red-paladin]

Let's steer this thread back to the topic at hand, and leave transit policy for the transit or plebiscite threads.

[adrianroam95]

An update for Moody Centre Station, taken by me on Thursday:

[adrianroam95]

There's also a goldmine of photos (that I think haven't been posted here yet) from the Ministry of Transportation's flickr account:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/tranbc/sets/72157632226282626/

Check out that LIM rail!


Inside the tunnel:


Burquitlam (northbound platform):


More tunnel goodness:


Ring segments. The site is located on the block of Barnet Hwy, Clarke Ave, and Douglas St.


Northbound view from Burquitlam:


North of Lincoln Station:

[MIPS]

Ah yes, that inclination on the curves.

[red-paladin]

Great pictures, love seeing how everything is coming together on the eastern segment.
We do need the URL for the pictures or at least the flickr page if they are all together.

[Meraki]

Nice to see we're again getting a concrete walkway between the tracks instead of that cheap thing on the Canada Line.

[adrianroam95]

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Great pictures, love seeing how everything is coming together on the eastern segment.
We do need the URL for the pictures or at least the flickr page if they are all together.

Added the link. Thanks.

[queetz@home]

Great pics adrianroam95! Quite pretty as usual. The tracks are looking good and I can't wait for the Pinetree segments having rails.

Originally Posted by MIPS

Ah yes, that inclination on the curves.

Now that you mention it, the Evergreen Line does seem to have a ridiculously large amount of curves in relation to the length of the line. From the map, it looks mostly straight but segments at North Road, Clarke Road, the entire ground level PoMo stretch up to Coquitlam Central and from Lincoln to Lafarge, curves are everywhere. It should be quite fun to ride it...