Calgary Stoney Trail [Ring Road]

[joe498]

Originally Posted by craner

I'm not sure why Prentice would even bring this up right now? Federal approval hasn't even been granted yet, by the time it is oil could be back up in price and it's business as usual.
I wouldn't want anything to put the deal with the nation in jeopardy.

Just because oil goes back up does not mean it's business as usual. When you average it out it's still a revenue shortfall.

[Socguy]

This blog continues to be a fascinating look into the history and politics of Calgary and the band. Great job!

[craner]

Any news on how Federal approval of the agreement is going and when it might be approved?

[Socguy]

I imagine that due to the time limited nature of the agreement along with the fact that both the Provence and the band want this thing to go ahead, that federal approval is almost a foregone conclusion.

The real question in my mind is: What it would take for the feds to turn this thing down?

[Socguy]

Interesting. I guess that would take time.

I hope the Provence has crossed their T's and dotted their I's. It would be a disaster if the feds came back to them and scuttled the deal on account of an overlooked project dating back 50 years.

Already some graffiti on the very nice retaining walls near McKenzie in the SE. Can't these morons find something more productive to do?

[craner]

No kidding - shoot them on the spot!

[MalcolmTucker]

Cool! That is awesome.

[Mazrim]

Ah man, I'm in Kelowna that weekend. I would love to have gone though!

[DoubleK]

—!

[Jimby]

Hurray for common sense!

[Socguy]

I'm not sure how much sense this does make. If they're going ahead with the RR -and they seem determined to make it happen- why not just get it done?

I get that it makes the budget look a little better this year but how much money will it save in the long run? I ask this question for a couple reasons:

First, because interest rates right now are about as low as they will ever go. Borrowing money will never be cheaper. When they do want to start construction on the west leg, who knows what the picture will look like. I would wager there's a strong chance interest rates are higher.

Next, wages are on the way down and unemployment is on the way up in Alberta. The government has a prime job creation infrastructure project nearly shovel ready. The government is setting themselves up to actually start this project at a time when oil may have rebounded and labour is in short supply and higher cost again.

Third, the Provence is already starting to take hits (legitimate in my opinion) over lack of funding in infrastructure for cities. Granted that a road is not transit, which is the most needed area in the major centers but it would still give them some cover to say that they're investing in Alberta when it needs it the most.

[MalcolmTucker]

There was a real concern that doing the two parts simultaneously would be beyond the 'carrying capacity' of industry without inducing growth, and growth costs money.

Things turn around sooner, could change. Certainly without the west leg, Sarcee souths remaining at grade intersections will likely need to go, as will Bowfort, and an upgrade to 16th and Sarcee. Or we can all suffer while paying an extra half a cent a kilometer for the priviledge.

[DoubleK]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

There was a real concern that doing the two parts simultaneously would be beyond the 'carrying capacity' of industry without inducing growth, and growth costs money.

Both NEAHD and SEST were going at the same time.

In terms of industry capacity, I really don't see a step change here that would cause a concern.

[Socguy]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Both NEAHD and SEST were going at the same time.

In terms of industry capacity, I really don't see a step change here that would cause a concern.

I agree. Certainly it's bigger but I doubt that it would stretch capacity that much, especially considering that it was all one project at one point in time. Besides, by breaking it into two you risk losing the 'economies of scale' which also help hold down cost.

[Full Mountain]

Originally Posted by Socguy

I agree. Certainly it's bigger but I doubt that it would stretch capacity that much, especially considering that it was all one project at one point in time. Besides, by breaking it into two you risk losing the 'economies of scale' which also help hold down cost.

I think at this size of project you're economy of scale may actually have the reverse effect, where by you use all the available resource creating scarcity where there was none before. Really economies of scale work in mass production items where tooling costs can be distributed over a larger number of units, CTrain cars are a great example of this. There is little fixed capital cost for the contractor outside of equipment, it's unlikely that they would go to the extent of building a new fixed capital asset (concrete plant, asphalt plant, etc.).

Also given that they W leg will likely be in tender during the final phases of the SW leg they incumbent bidder will likely end up with a good lead in the bidding. Also given the scope of the project there is potential that a single bidder may not be able to get the required financing to build both legs at the same time.

[Socguy]

You might very well be right, I'm no economist.

[Porfiry]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Certainly without the west leg, Sarcee souths remaining at grade intersections will likely need to go, as will Bowfort, and an upgrade to 16th and Sarcee.

Construction on the Bowfort interchange will start soon.
http://www.calgary.ca/Transportation/TI/...ort-Rd-Trans-Canada-Hwy-interchange.aspx

[Socguy]

Ya. When they were talking about it on CBC radio one of the commentators mentioned that the City was able to defer/avoid upgrades to the roads in this area on account of the RR going through. Apparently, the Provence has made some kind of noise like they will help the city 'integrate' the SWRR with the current road network -whatever that means.

Still, I think you're dead-on. Glenmore, Crowchild and Sarcee are going to be parking lots once the SW leg is complete.

[dmuzika]

If the city does go ahead with improving Sarcee between 16th Ave and Glenmore Trail, do you run the risk of the province announcing that the ring road is complete and defering the west leg of Stoney Trail for even longer?