Stadiums and Arenas of Canada

[Riise]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

If a MLB/MLS team moved in and was sustainable in any prairie city, I guarantee you it would change the attendance culture for young people.

Unlike many of the Argo and TFC supporters posting in this thread, I reckon that most people in the 18-35 range in prairie cities AND Toronto are not limited by tribalism and would be able to support more than one local sports team.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by P Unit

I was talking about growth potential, not viewership in years past. I don't see how anyone could make an argument that the CFL's most optimistic global growth potential matches that of MLS.

I was more than surprised that the new commish is talking about taking the CFL global (he has the background to do it). I don't know how the MLS can have success globally when they will always be fighting in the other competitors' backyard not only against that country but the Big Four historical leagues as well.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

Canadians in the younger demographic prefer the NFL over the CFL.

But they don't follow it more:


Source: http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CFL-Grey-Cup-2014.pdf


And you have also switched the comparison, which was not the NFL vs. the CFL, but MLS vs. the CFL, which beats the MLS in every age, gender and regional demographic:


Source: http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CFL-Grey-Cup-2014.pdf

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Riise

Unlike many of the Argo and TFC supporters posting in this thread, I reckon that most people in the 18-35 range in prairie cities AND Toronto are not limited by tribalism and would be able to support more than one local sports team.

The Toronto tribalism is really weird to me. Generally on the prairies, people support all of their home teams... even if you aren't a passionate fan of one or more of the sports, you still cheer for all the teams.

I mean, I'm not really a baseball fan but I'll go to one or two Goldeyes games a year and root for the home side.

This whole thing where you wish ill will upon a team from your home city is weird to me... I'm not sure what to make of it. I get it in the intra-city rivalry context like with Cubs fans hating the White Sox or whatever, but this business where TFC fans absolutely hate on the Argos as though they were this massive looming existential threat is just strange.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Hamilton is basically the exact same thing as Toronto when it comes to being able to access a wide range of pro sports. In the fall, it's even close to the NFL in Buffalo than Toronto is.

The proportion of fans who'd be willing to travel over an hour to watch a game are just a fragment of the turnout. Hamiltonians looking for a casual fun sports-related outing will head toward their local options first, which in the Summer means Argos and nothing else. Some of them will head down the Gardiner or to Buffalo, but those left behind have only one option. Not the same in Toronto.

[Acajack]

I don't think anyone would dispute that MLS has way more potential to be a globally popular league than the CFL does, but we're talking about Canada here, and I doubt MLS will displace the CFL nationally any time soon (if ever) with only three teams in the entire country.

[Jay in Cowtown]

Originally Posted by Oilkountry

But to clarify I'm talking about the way it's represented on TV and also the entire image of the CFL is very dated.

TSN has made the CFL broadcasts 1000 times better than when they were on the Communist Broadcasting Corporation!

I don't think TSN can do any better job than they do now. And I for one sometimes watch CFL games on ESPN on my US dish and they sure as hell don't look out of place with the ESPN scorebar at the bottom... no different than MNF really.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by esquire

The Toronto tribalism is really weird to me. Generally on the prairies, people support all of their home teams... even if you aren't a passionate fan of one or more of the sports, you still cheer for all the teams.

I mean, I'm not really a baseball fan but I'll go to one or two Goldeyes games a year and root for the home side.

This whole thing where you wish ill will upon a team from your home city is weird to me... I'm not sure what to make of it. I get it in the intra-city rivalry context like with Cubs fans hating the White Sox or whatever, but this business where TFC fans absolutely hate on the Argos as though they were this massive looming existential threat is just strange.

Have you read any of the anti-TFC hate on this thread? Are you totally oblivious to it? Toronto fans support all Toronto teams that they enjoy watching, but if one team is disparaging towards the others then it will leave a bitter taste. I don't hear Leafs or Jays fans making fun of TFC, I don't hear Raptors fans making fun of us, or vice versa. Read any soccer forum or article (don't even get me started on the reaction on NFL to Toronto articles) and it's filled with CFL fans hating on soccer, big time. Any hate you sense towards the CFL is a reaction and nothing more. CFL (and gridiron football in general) clearly feels threatened by soccer however small the existing footprint, and any attempt to grow MLS or NFL in Canada triggers immediate fear and insecurity. I don't think of the Argos as any sort of threat to TFC, if they don't mess with our pitch I'm all for it. TFC's future is entirely in its own hands, the entertainment of the game and the natural progression of globalization will make its further success inevitable. That's not how CFL fanboys see it however, and their fear and insecurity is palpable, very obvious and rather pathetic. I feel bad for them.

[king10]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

The proportion of fans who'd be willing to travel over an hour to watch a game are just a fragment of the turnout. Hamiltonians looking for a casual fun sports-related outing will head toward their local options first, which in the Summer means Argos and nothing else. Some of them will head down the Gardiner or to Buffalo, but those left behind have only one option. Not the same in Toronto.

I think you meant ticats.

But I'm from Hamilton and have ticats, TFC, and Bills season tickets. So you can't count me as one of those who only have one option.

22% of bills gate receipts come from Canada. You'd have to think a decent portion is from the Hamilton area.

I wish each team's fans could just all get along and support each other. We'd all me much more successful that way.

[logan5]

That trend has to be very alarming for the CFL, with more of the 18-34 audience being divvied up between the NFL, NBA, and MLS. Clearly the NFL is stealing away the CFL's audience. MLS competes directly with the CFL as well, and the numbers show (even though they're small) that they are gaining traction with the younger demographic, while the CFL is losing traction. Even the NBA is grabbing a significant share of the younger audience.

There's just so much competition now, it's going to be a tough battle for the CFL to survive. For the sake of sports culture in Canada, I hope they do.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Have you read any of the anti-TFC hate on this thread? Are you totally oblivious to it? Toronto fans support all Toronto teams that they enjoy watching, but if one team is disparaging towards the others then it will leave a bitter taste. I don't hear Leafs or Jays fans making fun of TFC, I don't hear Raptors fans making fun of us, or vice versa. Read any soccer forum or article (don't even get me started on the reaction on NFL to Toronto articles) and it's filled with CFL fans hating on soccer, big time. Any hate you sense towards the CFL is a reaction and nothing more. CFL (and gridiron football in general) clearly feels threatened by soccer however small the existing footprint, and any attempt to grow MLS or NFL in Canada triggers immediate fear and insecurity. I don't think of the Argos as any sort of threat to TFC, if they don't mess with our pitch I'm all for it. TFC's future is entirely in its own hands, the entertainment of the game and the natural progression of globalization will make its further success inevitable. That's not how CFL fanboys see it however, and their fear and insecurity is palpable, very obvious and rather pathetic. I feel bad for them.

The negativity on the BMO Field thing is, as far as I can tell, exclusively on TFC and its fans who feel entitled to exclusive access to a stadium that their club doesn't own.

I admit I'm a CFL fan but I don't feel that the game is terribly threatened by MLS... I mean, what was that TFC rating that Prometheus posted, 58,000? I suspect that televising a Hamilton Tiger-Cats practice would probably rack up a higher number than that. So no looming threat so far as I can tell.

[king10]

Originally Posted by logan5

That trend has to be very alarming for the CFL, with more of the 18-34 audience being divvied up between the NFL, NBA, and MLS. Clearly the NFL is stealing away the CFL's audience. MLS competes directly with the CFL as well, and the numbers show (even though they're small) that they are gaining traction with the younger demographic, while the CFL is losing traction. Even the NBA is grabbing a significant share of the younger audience.

There's just so much competition now, it's going to be a tough battle for the CFL to survive. For the sake of sports culture in Canada, I hope they do.

I think the toughest battle for the CFL is in big cities like MTL toronto and Vancouver where there are tons of entertainment option. In those big cities the CFL isn't seen as "cool"

But come to Hamilton and you'll see the fan demographic is well spread out. I go to games with about 10 guys all in their twenties. And its not uncommon for us to hit it off with some fine looking females in their 20s at the game or a tailgate and head out to a bar after.

[YoungRepublic]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

As well as what the NHL, NFL, NBA and MLB can attain. When you are on the very bottom rung of the sports ladder, then by definition your potential for growth is necessarily the highest of all your competitors.

From the Angus Reid Institute (Canada's leading social science firm):



Source: http://angusreid.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/CFL-Grey-Cup-2014.pdf

So Ontarians prefer the NFL to the CFL. Not surprising. The gap between the NFL and the CFL is 5%. What's also interesting is the gap between the CFL and the NBA is a mere 3% while the MLS is just 7% out from a league that's been in the province since the 1800s. Considering that the Argos constantly blow both the Raps and TFC out of the water in terms of national TV viewership, one might've thought that the gap would be much wider. Since NBA fans are much younger in this province, I wouldn't be surprised if the NBA's popularity in Ontario surpasses that of the CFL in the near future.

What are the national TV ratings for the Jays compared to the Argos? I'm asking because according to this poll, MLB is the second most followed league in this province with a 10% gap between it and the CFL. I'd like to see how the TV ratings compare to this poll.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Have you read any of the anti-TFC hate on this thread? Are you totally oblivious to it? Toronto fans support all Toronto teams that they enjoy watching, but if one team is disparaging towards the others then it will leave a bitter taste. I don't hear Leafs or Jays fans making fun of TFC, I don't hear Raptors fans making fun of us, or vice versa. Read any soccer forum or article (don't even get me started on the reaction on NFL to Toronto articles) and it's filled with CFL fans hating on soccer, big time. Any hate you sense towards the CFL is a reaction and nothing more. CFL (and gridiron football in general) clearly feels threatened by soccer however small the existing footprint, and any attempt to grow MLS or NFL in Canada triggers immediate fear and insecurity. I don't think of the Argos as any sort of threat to TFC, if they don't mess with our pitch I'm all for it. TFC's future is entirely in its own hands, the entertainment of the game and the natural progression of globalization will make its further success inevitable. That's not how CFL fanboys see it however, and their fear and insecurity is palpable, very obvious and rather pathetic. I feel bad for them.

[FrankieFlowerpot]

Guys - there's a sports culture thread



https://twitter.com/TeamHop/status/581177267625295872

[Villaggio]

Searches for Major League Soccer (MLS) and Canadian Football League (CFL) ONLY FOR CANADA.

2004-Present





2014



CFL: Interest SEEMS to be decreasing
MLS: Huge boost from TFC joining the league then sustained interest. Good support in 2014 BUT seems correlated with TFC's success. When they start being bad, MLS interest decreases. They are Canada's team.

Pre TFC, MLS didn't even seem to exist in people's minds. And it didn't.

In less than 10 years, MLS seems to gain more coverage or interest according to these graphs. Let's not forget that the CFL has 9 teams in Canada and the MLS only 3. My theory for this is that support from the CFL comes from an older demographic and their use is inferior to the MLS fans, who tend to be younger.

[logan5]

Overall the CFL looks much stronger than the NFL and MLS, but in Vancouver, MLS is pretty strong and the NFL is almost on par with the CFL. If the numbers for BC could be broken down by age, MLS could be getting a larger share of the younger audience. Almost certainly the NFL is more popular in BC with the under 55 crowd.

If the Lions start to fade away like the Argonauts, the CFL is doomed for sure. The CFL has some serious credibility issues stemming largely from the low number of franchises. It's just hard to get excited about seeing the same teams coming in over and over again. I know it didn't work out last time, but maybe consider some carefully selected American cities. Look at border cities like Spokane WA. No pro teams and a metro population of over 500 000. I'm sure there are plenty of other candidates.

Long story short, the CFL has to make some bold moves in order to survive.

[king10]

Originally Posted by logan5

Overall the CFL looks much stronger than the NFL and MLS, but in Vancouver, MLS is pretty strong and the NFL is almost on par with the CFL. If the numbers for BC could be broken down by age, MLS could be getting a larger share of the younger audience. Almost certainly the NFL is more popular in BC with the under 55 crowd.

If the Lions start to fade away like the Argonauts, the CFL is doomed for sure. The CFL has some serious credibility issues stemming largely from the low number of franchises. It's just hard to get excited about seeing the same teams coming in over and over again. I know it didn't work out last time, but maybe consider some carefully selected American cities. Look at border cities like Spokane WA. No pro teams and a metro population of over 500 000. I'm sure there are plenty of other candidates.

Long story short, the CFL has to make some bold moves in order to survive.

yet people lovvvvee talking about how the NHL was back in the original 6 days.

I think we should definately expand. but stick to Canada. Halifax and QC as 10 and 11. Then wait for population growth for that 12th team.

12 teams is a respectable number to sit at for a while.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by YoungRepublic

What's also interesting is the gap between the CFL and the NBA is a mere 3% while the MLS is just 7% out from a league that's been in the province since the 1800s. Considering that the Argos constantly blow both the Raps and TFC out of the water in terms of national TV viewership, one might've thought that the gap would be much wider.

Really? Considering the CFL is a just a "bush league" with relatively miniscule revenues and marketing budget and is ignored by the Toronto media when it's not being derided by it, while the NBA and MLS are major league, darlings of the Toronto media machine and have the full weight of one of the most powerful sports/entertainment corporations in the world behind them, one might have thought the NBA and MLS should be beating the little CFL, not losing to it.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by king10

yet people lovvvvee talking about how the NHL was back in the original 6 days.

I think we should definately expand. but stick to Canada. Halifax and QC as 10 and 11. Then wait for population growth for that 12th team.

12 teams is a respectable number to sit at for a while.

In a sports world where there are leagues with 30+ teams, even 12 looks small time. Even at 12, I think you need to look outside Canada for suitable cities. At least 16 would be more credible.