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  #281  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 8:06 PM
Capital Shaun Capital Shaun is offline
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Originally Posted by defishel View Post
I don't know if the route to Algonquin will be melted yet for me to get to school, but I'm hoping to pump my tires and bring it in for check-up so I can start cycling ASAP.
If your thinking of taking the Ottawa River pathway, some stretches tend to be underwater for parts of April, some years even into May. The pathway through the farm is usually in good shape before May.
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  #282  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 9:24 PM
eternallyme eternallyme is offline
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Also the morning rush hour is usually busier than the afternoon rush hour (on the roads as well as buses). That is because people are much more likely to stay after work and do shopping, eat dinner, etc. downtown (or near a business area) as opposed to go directly home.

As well, few students start school at 7 am as well, more start 8, 9 or later.

Regarding rail transit in the suburbs, a large part of it is political. If they didn't do that, they would lose their jobs or never get elected, since support for LRT is extremely high in Orleans (the highest in all of Ottawa probably!), and quite high in Kanata and Barrhaven as well. It is only unpopular in some neighbourhoods with NIMBYs and in rural Ottawa (understandable there). I'd be curious if Phase 2 becomes an issue in the federal election as well, even though transit is not supposed to be a federal issue.
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  #283  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eternallyme View Post
Also the morning rush hour is usually busier than the afternoon rush hour (on the roads as well as buses). That is because people are much more likely to stay after work and do shopping, eat dinner, etc. downtown (or near a business area) as opposed to go directly home.

As well, few students start school at 7 am as well, more start 8, 9 or later.

Regarding rail transit in the suburbs, a large part of it is political. If they didn't do that, they would lose their jobs or never get elected, since support for LRT is extremely high in Orleans (the highest in all of Ottawa probably!), and quite high in Kanata and Barrhaven as well. It is only unpopular in some neighbourhoods with NIMBYs and in rural Ottawa (understandable there). I'd be curious if Phase 2 becomes an issue in the federal election as well, even though transit is not supposed to be a federal issue.
Actually it feels to me like the opposite is true. Traffic congestion always seems worse in the PM.
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  #284  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 10:11 PM
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I got my bike back from the lbs today and will be going for a ride tomorrow; I'm looking forward to it! Unfortunately I'm heading up to Northern Quebec for a month or so on Sunday, so I'll be missing out on a good chunk of spring riding.
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  #285  
Old Posted Mar 9, 2015, 10:11 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is offline
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Originally Posted by MoreTrains View Post
He is looking for the city to expand its transit coverage properly. AKA: Innercity gets the high-capacity transit coverage where as the Suburbs get commuter transit. The inner city is where most congestion is, where most people live and where the highest densities are. High density in other cities mean subways/lrts. High density in Ottawa is just a thru-way for commuters.

The suburbs should be getting better BRT coverage. The Inner-City should be getting better LRT/Subway coverage. There is no reason why the city isnt putting rail to Rockliffe, there is potential for HUGE development, and with the proper density 50000 residents. But no, Orleans is more important, followed by Riverside South, Kanata, Barrhaven then Ottawa.
CFB, you mean, not former village?
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  #286  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 12:55 AM
Urbanarchit Urbanarchit is offline
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Originally Posted by Capital Shaun View Post
If your thinking of taking the Ottawa River pathway, some stretches tend to be underwater for parts of April, some years even into May. The pathway through the farm is usually in good shape before May.
Good to know! I usually go through the Experimental Farm there as it's quicker for me. As long as the big hill isn't icey, I may start cycling this month.
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  #287  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 1:05 AM
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The city and the NCC patch it up

Ottawa Citizen Editorial Board
Published on: March 9, 2015, Last Updated: March 9, 2015 2:44 PM EDT


The National Capital Commission and the City of Ottawa Argue About Light Rail, a play in several tedious acts, has finally ended. Here’s a recap:

The NCC: We’d allow a rail line along the John A. Macdonald Parkway if it were in a tunnel.
The City: That would be prohibitively expensive. How about a trench?
The NCC: It has to be a tunnel. If you insist on a trench, the answer is no.
The City: Why are you being so stubborn? Let’s form a committee.
The NCC: OK. How about if you build – get this – a tunnel? But build it as inexpensively as you can.
The City: In that case, we have a deal!

So now we have a light-rail agreement. There is a March 30 public consultation scheduled.

It’s a bit misleading to call it a “deal,” given that the NCC walks away without having ceded anything important. In fact, the process will even give the NCC a boost toward its own pet project, turning the strip of land along the Ottawa River into a “park of national significance” – and with the light rail stations there, it might even be a park with people in it.

So it’s good for the NCC. It doesn’t necessarily follow that it’s bad for the city. This new plan for the contentious section allows the city to move forward with a politically palatable route. And the city now says that with a few design tweaks (aka “value engineering”), it can include the tunnel while keeping costs within the $980-million budget for the western extension.

With this agreement, two important projects can move forward. That means the city and the NCC each has a new set of responsibilities. The city needs to make good on keeping this plan within budget and on schedule, and fit it into an overall transit vision that makes sense. The city’s evolving position on what is and isn’t affordable will rightly make citizens skeptical.

The NCC, meanwhile, has a historic opportunity to open up the shoreline to people. Its insistence on maintaining the aesthetic purity of the area was always more than a little precious, given that cars roar along the Parkway now. The changes in this plan will reduce that road’s footprint and improve access to the shoreline. But no matter how lovely a park in a national capital may be, it won’t have significance to anyone if it’s a sterile showpiece. So a real change means more than nice landscaping; it means turning the park into a place that truly welcomes the people who will soon be spilling out of the rail stations.

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/editorial-the-city-and-the-ncc-patch-it-up
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  #288  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 1:15 AM
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LRT compromise shows why Ottawa needs an NCC

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 9, 2015, Last Updated: March 9, 2015 5:51 PM EDT


The happy compromise announced last week between the city and the National Capital Commission on how to route the western LRT extension through federal land shows us why we need — yes, need and should now and then give thanks for — the NCC.

The mostly agreed-upon route will see light rail run underneath the asphalt of what will become a more narrow Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway. This will not only preserve the existing greenspace — the NCC’s primary demand — but will dramatically increase the amount of parkland between the roadway and the south shore of the Ottawa River, helping to nudge the NCC’s dreams for a national linear park closer to reality. And the route can be built within the city’s existing $980-million budget for the project.

But this elegant solution would never have materialized without the NCC’s insistence that a better way be found for the contentious 1.2-kilometre stretch of track.

Last November, the NCC wasn’t winning many fans — including in this column — when it put the brakes on the city’s western LRT leg at a hastily called news conference. We decried that our federal overlords where once again showing how out of touch they were with the practical needs of the city.

The city wanted to run the train above ground for 500 metres west of Dominion Station, along the northern edge of Rochester Field, before diving into a shallow tunnel and eventually ending up under Richmond Road in Westboro. The NCC was against any plan that affected its greenspace in any way. It wanted to explore a route that went underneath Rochester Field, and continued along under Richmond or even the Byron linear park. The city consistently maintained that would be too expensive.

But the NCC stood its ground. And when push came to shove, the city and the NCC were able to find not one, but two options that met most of both sides’ criteria: the “southern route,” which sees the train travel under Rochester Field (and was the NCC’s preference all along); and the “northern route” that runs under the parkway.

And — surprise surprise — both routes fit into the city’s existing budget, even though as recently as November, the city was insisting that the NCC’s route was going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars more.

“That didn’t turn out to be the case,” admitted city manager Kent Kirkpatrick.

Or, in other words, the city was wrong and the NCC was right.

At the height of the impasse between the city and the NCC, former foreign affairs minister John Baird and Mayor Jim Watson called a 100-day timeout for a working group — made up of senior staff, directors, politicians, costing consultants and even landscape architect George Dark — to hash out an agreement. By all accounts, it was local NCC director Bob Plamondon who first suggested the idea of putting the train under the roadway. (The background documents for the agreement credit an NCC staffer with the idea, but it was likely Plamondon who voiced the proposal to the whole working group.)

There were some NCC insiders who wanted to keep the parkway off-limits, especially when it seemed as if the NCC-preferred southern route was going to cost about the same amount.

But an interesting thing happens when you put bureaucrats and politicians in the same room with orders to come up with a solution: Everyone becomes more sensitized to the other side’s position. And everyone brings a particular perspective to the conversation. City staff can argue why, from a cost and engineering standpoint, they want to build a particular route. But it took the councillors in the room — Stephen Blais, Keith Egli and Mark Taylor — to explain why running the route under the Byron park was a political problem: The community would be disrupted for at least two years, and the replacement park would take a decade to grow back into anything resembling what’s there now.

While the NCC says it finds both the northern and southern routes acceptable, it has agreed in principle to allow light rail under the parkway, recognizing that’s the route that’s easier for the city — which, in NCC terms, counts as a significant compromise. And the NCC will allow the train to run above ground for 200 metres west of Dominion Station, so that passengers could get at least a glimpse of the Ottawa River.

This discussion isn’t over yet. There will be folks who will argue for the southern route, and suggestions of where to locate future LRT stations. Great — people should voice their opinions on March 30 at the first of several public meetings over the issue.

But it’s likely that more people will like this version of the route than most of the ones that have gone before. And those people should thank the NCC, our local sober second thought when it comes to city building.

[email protected]
twitter.com/jchianello

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/0310-col-chianello
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  #289  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 1:22 PM
MountainView MountainView is online now
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Originally Posted by defishel View Post
Good to know! I usually go through the Experimental Farm there as it's quicker for me. As long as the big hill isn't icey, I may start cycling this month.
Unsure where you are coming from but Ash Lane is closed from the NCC Driveway South so you'd have to use Fisher until the snow melts / they are done cutting down the Ash trees on March 30th. Whichever is earlier. :-)
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  #290  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 2:07 PM
SF Thomas SF Thomas is offline
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
LRT compromise shows why Ottawa needs an NCC

Joanne Chianello, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: March 9, 2015, Last Updated: March 9, 2015 5:51 PM EDT


http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/0310-col-chianello
Chianello might be giving the NCC a bit too much credit here. Don't get me wrong I think the compromise works well. It might just be my opinion though, but I still don't see why running LRT on the surface near the parkway for a kilometer would have been a big deal, especially if they just reused space allocated to the median (a narrower median or have LRT run there). An LRT line isn't going to be much more intrusive than a roadway.

Anyways the same could be said in reverse where the NCC wouldn't have considered this option if the city hadn't been insistent about this particular route. If the NCC had initially had their way the western segment would have probably been forced to use a longer or more expensive route.

I think it is likely that part of the reason it will be cheaper is because with the parkway being rerouted on top of the the LRT tunnel the city doesn't have to dig as deep and can simply opt to do cut and cover.
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  #291  
Old Posted Mar 10, 2015, 2:15 PM
MoreTrains MoreTrains is offline
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CFB, you mean, not former village?
Yeah former CFB... However... if we toredown the village... 150-200k more people??
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  #292  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 7:28 PM
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1overcosc 1overcosc is offline
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Darwin's post says that the construction on the Tunneys-Lincoln Fields segment starts in January 2017. Thought it might be a typo but he clearly says it's going to start before Phase 1 opens.

http://www.westsideaction.com/westward-ho-part-iii-curse-stations-transit-users/

I suppose it's possible now that the EA is close to completion. Though, given the length of the P3 bidding process, the only way I can see shovels actually getting in the ground by January 2017 is if the city bypasses the process and sole-sources it to RTG. Is that legal?

Last edited by 1overcosc; Mar 11, 2015 at 7:41 PM.
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  #293  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 7:55 PM
MoreTrains MoreTrains is offline
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
Darwin's post says that the construction on the Tunneys-Lincoln Fields segment starts in January 2017. Thought it might be a typo but he clearly says it's going to start before Phase 1 opens.

http://www.westsideaction.com/westward-ho-part-iii-curse-stations-transit-users/

I suppose it's possible now that the EA is close to completion. Though, given the length of the P3 bidding process, the only way I can see shovels actually getting in the ground by January 2017 is if the city bypasses the process and sole-sources it to RTG. Is that legal?
Technically legal, they just extend the scope of the existing contract instead of issuing a new one. Its just frowned upon. And given the current project and how well it is going, RTG is probably the best bet anyways.
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  #294  
Old Posted Mar 11, 2015, 8:01 PM
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Technically legal, they just extend the scope of the existing contract instead of issuing a new one. Its just frowned upon. And given the current project and how well it is going, RTG is probably the best bet anyways.
I would definitely agree that sole-sourcing to RTG is a good idea given their amazing performance so far.
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  #295  
Old Posted Mar 24, 2015, 12:14 AM
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waterloowarrior waterloowarrior is offline
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Reminder about the "Information Session" next week...

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-consultations/transit/information-session-march-30-2015
Information Session - March 30, 2015
Monday, March 30, 2015
Jean Pigott Place, City Hall
110 Laurier Avenue West
5 to 8 p.m.
Presentation at 6:30 p.m.

Further to the joint announcement between the City of Ottawa and the National Capital Commission's (NCC) 100 Day Working Group, you are invited to an Information Session to review and provide feedback on the proposed alignment between Dominion and Cleary Stations.

At the Information Session you will have the opportunity to view the preferred solution, which is to allow the City's Confederation Line West LRT extension run fully buried under the Sir John A. Macdonald Parkway. This integrated transit solution meets the NCC's criteria, while protecting the Byron Linear Park and Rochester Field and meeting the City of Ottawa's affordability requirements. It also advances the creation of a waterfront linear park.

The Western LRT extension is one of three environmental assessment studies currently underway as part of Stage 2, the City's plan to extend the benefits of rail to residents farther east, west and south that will add 19 new stations and 30 kilometres to our LRT network.

Accessibility is an important consideration for the City of Ottawa. If you require special accommodation, please call or e-mail the project lead below.
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  #296  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 3:22 AM
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Shallower tunnel key to western LRT budget

By Jon Willing, Ottawa Sun
First posted: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 05:27 PM EDT | Updated: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 05:34 PM EDT




One thing struck several councillors when the city announced its new western LRT proposal with the National Capital Commission this month.

How can a $980-million budget be maintained when the city buries tracks the full length across the Sir John A. Macdonald Pkwy., pays for the NCC's road reconstruction and squirrels away $30-million for landscaping?

The city has provided the Sun additional details about where the savings came from.

The NCC's proposal of putting LRT under the parkway came early in a 100-day negotiating window and both sides crunched the numbers to make sure it could be done within the city's budget.

The requirement of not having to plant new trees turns out to be a game changer.

The city initially bristled at burying the full 1.2-km stretch of rail along the parkway because it would shoot the construction estimate to $1.1 billion. The tunnel had to be deep enough to allow replanting of trees on top. The buffer between the tunnel ceiling and surface had to be about three metres.

When you start burying rail, the deeper you go, the more money you spend.

The new preferred alignment under a re-routed parkway obviously doesn't require trees on top of the road, which means the tunnel doesn't have to be as deep. The water-blocking "slurry walls" on each side of the tunnel won't need to be as high.

Under the new estimates, the city is poised to save $35 million - $45 million alone from having a shallower cut-and-cover tunnel.

The requirement of trains not having to immediately descend into a tunnel going west after Dominion station also brought major savings in the range of $25 million - $30 million.

Then there are the smaller savings that add up.

The city found a way to tighten up the "Y fly-over" that will split the Algonquin College-bound trains and the ones going to Bayshore Shopping Centre. The city is finding ways to tighten the planned stations at New Orchard, Cleary and Dominion so the structures are integrated into those communities. That will save money, too.

Consultants who have worked on the ongoing Confederation Line LRT also provided valuable advice about contingencies. Based on experience -- such as planning for the conversion of the Transitway to rail -- the city reduced its contingency on some areas of the western LRT corridor. The more complex elements would still carry the 30% contingency, but the contingency for other sections was reduced to 15%.

The $30-million landscaping requirement was already factored into the $980-million western LRT budget. Most of the high-quality landscaping will be reserved for the parkway corridor, rather than the stretch between Lincoln Fields and Algonquin College.

The city is holding an open house Monday at City Hall on the proposed route. The event runs 5 p.m. - 8 p.m. with a presentation at 6:30 p.m.

Twitter: @JonathanWilling

http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/03/24/shallower-tunnel-key-to-western-lrt-budget
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  #297  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 1:31 PM
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'The $30-million landscaping requirement was already factored into the $980-million western LRT budget. Most of the high-quality landscaping will be reserved for the parkway corridor, rather than the stretch between Lincoln Fields and Algonquin College.'

So... the priority is to the NCC for landscaping and not the citizens of Ottawa?
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  #298  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 3:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MoreTrains View Post
'The $30-million landscaping requirement was already factored into the $980-million western LRT budget. Most of the high-quality landscaping will be reserved for the parkway corridor, rather than the stretch between Lincoln Fields and Algonquin College.'

So... the priority is to the NCC for landscaping and not the citizens of Ottawa?
The NCC is always horny about the landscaping.
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  #299  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 4:06 PM
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Should the NCC be kicking in a bit for the fact that they are getting some brand new road surfaces? I remember a while back hearing the NCC was planning to do some major upgrades.
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  #300  
Old Posted Mar 25, 2015, 5:03 PM
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Should the NCC be kicking in a bit for the fact that they are getting some brand new road surfaces? I remember a while back hearing the NCC was planning to do some major upgrades.
No, the NCC will not pay for it, infact the City is paying for the land it is using by doing the road re-alignment and paying an additional 30 million for 'landscaping'. And I think the only reason the city agreed was they set a budget, and since this routing came under budget they can afford to do the NCCs bidding, instead of saving millions to put in somewhere else.

The NCC realistically should be paying for stuff, like removal of half the SJAM parkway, but that just wouldnt do I dont think.
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