Winnipeg Construction VIII

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

shizam! i finaly got up there... though bit more radiated then before...

Great pic, makes DT look very dense. Jeez, it'd be nice to see the parking lots around the big Osborne towers to be filled in... with another tower.

[wags_in_the_peg]

174 Provencher is for sale for $850k. this is the former Shell gas station that is now an empty lot used for Le Garage parking mainly. Now that would be a nice location for another 6-8 story condo complex. If only I had a few million in my back pocket!

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by wags_in_the_peg

174 Provencher is for sale for $850k. this is the former Shell gas station that is now an empty lot used for Le Garage parking mainly. Now that would be a nice location for another 6-8 story condo complex. If only I had a few million in my back pocket!

Maximum of three storeys on that side of Provencher.

Whoever is selling that land needs to give their head a shake or at least do even the slightest amount of due diligence.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Maximum of three storeys on that side of Provencher.

That's a pity. Even 5 or 6 storeys would add a lot to the streetscape without significantly altering the character of the area.

Good old Old St. B., fight tooth and nail against every possible change and then wonder why your area still sucks after all these years.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Maximum of three storeys on that side of Provencher.

Whoever is selling that land needs to give their head a shake or at least do even the slightest amount of due diligence.

because of the price or environmental issues? would you see around half a mill as a workable number?

once that lot is developed I worry about a lack of parking on Provencher. not enough side streets compared to corydon for example.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

That's a pity. Even 5 or 6 storeys would add a lot to the streetscape without significantly altering the character of the area.

Good old Old St. B., fight tooth and nail against every possible change and then wonder why your area still sucks after all these years.

Apparently they've been looking into slight alterations of the secondary plan, but I haven't heard anything lately. The other side of the street gets 8 storeys, but the plan is really defined by its weak density allowances all over the place from a multi-family perspective.

[bomberjet]

One side of the street is 8 storeys (north side I'm guessing) and the other is 3? Who the fuck came up with that? And we were wondering why Provencher was a piece of shit with declining street presence.

I did see someone sitting out on the boulevard in the fall having a coffee at a small table. Looked funny. All by themselves as semi's rolled by kicking up dust. Just kind of sitting on the sidewalk in front of the business. Like it was Paris or something.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I did see someone sitting out on the boulevard in the fall having a coffee at a small table. Looked funny. All by themselves as semi's rolled by kicking up dust. Just kind of sitting on the sidewalk in front of the business. Like it was Paris or something.

I honestly wonder if Provencher is doomed to failure so long as it remains a truck route. With semis and grain trucks pounding down the street every 30 seconds, it will be very very difficult to turn it into a true pedestrian promenade... but then again, the neighbourhood itself doesn't seem interested in doing that either.

After 15 years of waiting for Provencher to realize its potential, I've pretty much written it off. The old Shell site can become a muffler shop or an A&W drive thru for all I care... there are other parts of town more receptive to positive urban development; let's focus on them.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

because of the price or environmental issues? would you see around half a mill as a workable number?

once that lot is developed I worry about a lack of parking on Provencher. not enough side streets compared to corydon for example.

Of course unknown environmental issues are always concerning to me given that the oil companies force you to indemnify them before they'll even accept an offer, but that wouldn't be my main concern here.

A) You're going to have a tough time getting residential at that spot. The businesses will fight you to the death in the interest of avoiding noise complaints and I would understand their position. And if you do, you're forced to put commercial at grade, which, yeah. That's a liability.

B) The density given the height restriction. The site may have some extensive clean up costs yet (and in that case you can apply to vary the density up another 25%), but lets assume that Shell has already handled it. You're talking about 18 units over two floors over 148' frontage. You'll get it, but it will be tight with your parking, so you'll have to vary that too. So lets take out the commercial space which we can generously assign at maybe $25K in land cost per door. I'd never pay that, but somebody might. That leaves $800K over 18 doors, so, almost $45K/door in land cost. On Provencher. In St. Boniface.

I wish somebody the best of luck making those numbers work.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

One side of the street is 8 storeys (north side I'm guessing) and the other is 3? Who the fuck came up with that? And we were wondering why Provencher was a piece of shit with declining street presence.

I did see someone sitting out on the boulevard in the fall having a coffee at a small table. Looked funny. All by themselves as semi's rolled by kicking up dust. Just kind of sitting on the sidewalk in front of the business. Like it was Paris or something.

Well, more specifically, 30 ft. on the South side and 80 ft. on the North side, but you understand the point...

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I honestly wonder if Provencher is doomed to failure so long as it remains a truck route. With semis and grain trucks pounding down the street every 30 seconds, it will be very very difficult to turn it into a true pedestrian promenade... but then again, the neighbourhood itself doesn't seem interested in doing that either.

After 15 years of waiting for Provencher to realize its potential, I've pretty much written it off. The old Shell site can become a muffler shop or an A&W drive thru for all I care... there are other parts of town more receptive to positive urban development; let's focus on them.

Can't have a drive-thru in the area with direct access of of Provencher. Unfortunately, no A & W...

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

The other side of the street gets 8 storeys,

Worries about the street being too dark perhaps?

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Worries about the street being too dark perhaps?

I'm guessing there's a shadow study to back this up. The plan's been on the books since 1976 so it wouldn't be due to anything recent.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

Of course unknown environmental issues are always concerning to me given that the oil companies force you to indemnify them before they'll even accept an offer, but that wouldn't be my main concern here.

A) You're going to have a tough time getting residential at that spot. The businesses will fight you to the death in the interest of avoiding noise complaints and I would understand their position. And if you do, you're forced to put commercial at grade, which, yeah. That's a liability.

B) The density given the height restriction. The site may have some extensive clean up costs yet (and in that case you can apply to vary the density up another 25%), but lets assume that Shell has already handled it. You're talking about 18 units over two floors over 148' frontage. You'll get it, but it will be tight with your parking, so you'll have to vary that too. So lets take out the commercial space which we can generously assign at maybe $25K in land cost per door. I'd never pay that, but somebody might. That leaves $800K over 18 doors, so, almost $45K/door in land cost. On Provencher. In St. Boniface.

I wish somebody the best of luck making those numbers work.

Thanks for the substantive reply. Very informative.

I wonder the unrealistic expectations some property owners seem to have on Provencher. The auto repair shop being a case in point. I also note that someone seems to have poured quite a bit of money into one sixty Provencher. It's looks very attractive in my opinion but has been sitting empty for a long time. It's a free country but you wonder how people can sit so long on low or non revenue assets like that.

[Tacheguy]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Worries about the street being too dark perhaps?

Never thought of that. Probably explains it.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Simplicity

I'm guessing there's a shadow study to back this up. The plan's been on the books since 1976 so it wouldn't be due to anything recent.

"Shadow study" for Provencher? Seriously?

I tell ya, if there's one thing I hated about Paris it was the inability to see both the sun and the horizon at all times. Thank goodness Provencher is protected against that.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by Tacheguy

Thanks for the substantive reply. Very informative.

I wonder the unrealistic expectations some property owners seem to have on Provencher. The auto repair shop being a case in point. I also note that someone seems to have poured quite a bit of money into one sixty Provencher. It's looks very attractive in my opinion but has been sitting empty for a long time. It's a free country but you wonder how people can sit so long on low or non revenue assets like that.

You can blame the Realtors. And I don't say that because I'm looking for an easy target, but somebody is obviously looking at the boarded up lot across the street that Enterprise Riel is holding hostage at $1MM+ and figuring that they can get theirs moved by discounting into today's market. Problem is, you're not discounting on a comparable value basis. Even though they're in the same vicinity and present what appear to be similar investment potential, there's a buried nuance that sets the true value of the land and it's going ignored.

My guess is that it'll only take a couple tire-kickers for it to become known to them, but I've seen people only figure these things out after spending $20K getting a proposal in front of the community committee where the planner's report makes it clear.

[Simplicity]

Originally Posted by esquire

"Shadow study" for Provencher? Seriously?

I tell ya, if there's one thing I hated about Paris it was the inability to see both the sun and the horizon at all times. Thank goodness Provencher is protected against that.

I truly don't have a clue as to whether there's a shadow study or not, but every proposal that's breached 4 stories that I've ever been involved with has brought out the neighbourhood complaining about the perfect 3:30 sun their tomatoes will no longer receive.

[Cyro]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

shizam! i finaly got up there... though bit more radiated then before...

Undoubtedly one of the best locations in the Peg to take photos from.
I can see my old place along the Assiniboine River in this photo. I hope you had the chance to take a bunch from this location.

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

shizam! i finaly got up there... though bit more radiated then before...

Great shot!