Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Jamaican-Phoenix

I guess they think we're suckers for punishment in winter.

Also, in summer.

[silvergate]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Do any rapid transit stations ever look nice? I mean, Montreal's metro has some great art on the walls but the platforms are still really grimy. Toronto, ditto just without the great art on the walls! I got the same experience in the London Underground.

Keeping all the stations pristine is probably a lost cause.

As long as they don't start smelling like some of the ones in Paris do, I think we're golden. Those public bathroom people should use that as part of their overall argument. People wouldn't need to pee in the corner if there was a public washroom.

[Buggys]

Originally Posted by silvergate

As long as they don't start smelling like some of the ones in Paris do, I think we're golden. Those public bathroom people should use that as part of their overall argument. People wouldn't need to pee in the corner if there was a public washroom.

People wouldn't want to pee in the corner if the corner pees back ; - P.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...on-streets-with-walls-that-pee-back.html

[JM1]

I think it gets too cold for the salt to work in these cities. They use gravel and grit I think.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Does anyone use as much friggin' road salt as Ottawa?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by JM1

I think it gets too cold for the salt to work in these cities. They use gravel and grit I think.

From January to March, Calgary is, on average, milder than Ottawa. Edmonton is about 2 degrees colder.

Ottawa just uses a 🞵🞵🞵🞵-ton more salt than is necessary. In December, there was a "salt-drift" on my block that was deeper than any snow we got all month. It can't be good for the infrastructure or the environment, and it sure as hell isn't any good for my footwear or pants.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

From January to March, Calgary is, on average, milder than Ottawa. Edmonton is about 2 degrees colder.

Ottawa just uses a 🞵🞵🞵🞵-ton more salt than is necessary. In December, there was a "salt-drift" on my block that was deeper than any snow we got all month. It can't be good for the infrastructure or the environment, and it sure as hell isn't any good for my footwear or pants.

January-March is milder on average only because of the chinooks. As such, their midwinter breaks, instead of the 0-ish that happens here, are more like 10-15C there. Their 'typical' winter days are colder than ours.

It does appear that they do have less snowfall totals, although their snow tends to come more in concentrated blizzards than us.

In any case, I agree with you that Ottawa goes overboard on salting.

[swimmer_spe]

When the line is up and running will any of the stations have a bus terminal at them?

How will the current routes change?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

When the line is up and running will any of the stations have a bus terminal at them?

Yes, Blair, Hurdman, Pimisi, and Tunney's will have Toronto-style fare-paid-area bus terminals.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

How will the current routes change?

Yet to be fully determined. The basics are that there will be no more express buses into the downtown core, and that many local routes will be modified to have a 1 seat ride to the Confederation Line. For example, a local route that currently ends at say Lincoln Fields or Place D'Orleans would be extended to Tunney's Pasture or Blair.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Yes, Blair, Hurdman, Pimisi, and Tunney's will have Toronto-style fare-paid-area bus terminals.

Are there any renderings of those platforms?

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Are there any renderings of those platforms?

The station renderings on the website (confederationline.ca) do typically have a view of the BRT platforms but the renderings are fairly conceptual at this point.

[Kitchissippi]

With Presto, there really isn't any need for fare-paid areas. Cash and ticket fares will still need proof or payment no matter what, unless they get rid of POP rear door entry. I don't think any of our platforms will be special.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

With Presto, there really isn't any need for fare-paid areas. Cash and ticket fares will still need proof or payment no matter what, unless they get rid of POP rear door entry. I don't think any of our platforms will be special.

No, nobody, not even cash and ticket users, will ever have to show proof of payment when transferring between buses and trains at Tunney's, Blair, or Hurdman. The bus platforms will be fenced off from the outside world, thus making them part of the station building, and the station will be designed so that way anyone going to the bus platforms from the outside world has to go through the station's fare gates first. That way, movement from bus to train takes place inside the gates meaning no proof of payment necessary.

Drivers will be trained to not bother inspecting fares when loading passengers at the fare-paid-area platforms, and riders informed not to bother tapping their cards.

This is special, actually. Not many cities have this. This is something Toronto came up with when they were building their subway system, and it's worked wonders there as a way to make bus-subway connections fast and efficient. As such, we're following their lead.

EDIT: I'm actually not sure now which stations will have fare paid transfers. I know that Tunney's, Blair, and Hurdman definitely will. I thought Pimisi did but now I'm not sure, and I think St. Laurent might have them too.

[1overcosc]

To summarize the fare system for the Confederation Line:

-Stations will have fare gates. They will be rolled out on the Trillium Line in 2016 to test out the system first (thus replacing its current POP system).
-The fare gates will have Presto readers in them.
-Bus transfers will have machine-readable barcodes that the fare gate readers will be able to scan. Tap your transfer and you can get it in.
-Tickets will also be readable by the machines in the same manner
-Cash users will have to buy a ticket to get in. There will be ticket machines next to the gates--2 at each gate in case 1 is out of service. There will be no human clerks, though, instead those requiring assistance will have to use a video help link that will be installed in each machine. Although the city has said they may hire clerks in some stations at certain hours. These ticket machines will also allow users to buy & fill a Presto card.
-Once ticket & cash users are inside the station they can go to a kiosk to get a paper transfer, if they will be getting on a bus later in their trip that doesn't have a fare paid transfer (for example, if transferring to a downtown local at Rideau station after boarding at Blair).

Notably, this means that paper monthly passes will have to phased out before the system launches. (Why they haven't done this already, I have no idea.)

This is almost identical to the fare control systems used in Toronto & Montreal, the one major exception being there's no human clerks here.

While this setup will mean each station costs more to build (about $20M systemwide for all the gates), operating costs are reduced because there's no need for fare inspectors on board the trains.

[Kitchissippi]

Random fare inspectors are still needed on the buses if rear door boarding is allowed in other parts of the system. Fare-paid bus platforms at the stations are pointless because you will still need a paper transfer if you paid by cash to board the bus no matter what. If a fare inspector came on board and you say you got on at Hurdman and didn't have a transfer, it won't be a valid excuse. Why facilitate something that makes this possible? Also, one of the features of Presto is that actually measures usage on each route which is critical for planning and management — it depends on data from people tapping their cards on specific buses.

[MalcolmTucker]

Seems like someone has a fare gate fetish. Why bother? Doesn't seem to save anyone any effort, just a different form of the same complexity.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Random fare inspectors are still needed on the buses if rear door boarding is allowed in other parts of the system. Fare-paid bus platforms at the stations are pointless because you will still need a paper transfer if you paid by cash to board the bus no matter what. If a fare inspector came on board and you say you got on at Hurdman and didn't have a transfer, it won't be a valid excuse. Why facilitate something that makes this possible? Also, one of the features of Presto is that actually measures usage on each route which is critical for planning and management — it depends on data from people tapping their cards on specific buses.

Without fare-paid platforms, those going between train and bus would have to pass through fare gates as part of the transfer, which would slow the transfer down considerably. Consider that at least initially with Phase 1, the volume of passengers transferring to/from buses will be huge.

Cash users would still get transfers from the fare gates on their way into the system.

If you walked to Hurdman or whatever, you'd have to pass through the fare gates at the station to get to the bus platforms (ie. walk up traffic can't go directly to the bus platforms), which means if you paid cash, you'd have the transfer from the ticket you bought at the machine. Ditto if you got on the train somewhere (say Cyrville), got off at a fare-paid transfer point (say Tunney's), and then transferred to a bus... you'd still have the paper transfer that the fare gate gave you at Cyrville.

[YOWflier]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Construction Update
Week of March 2

...


Forming of Variable Messaging Signs footings in Highway 417 median lane

Highway 417 Roadworks

Ongoing work in the median includes backfilling, electrical trenching, light pole bases and conduit installations. Work continues for two new Variable Messaging Signs (VMS) to be located near Vanier Parkway (eastbound lanes) and St. Laurent Boulevard (westbound lanes)

...

Other than the planned Vanier Parkway VMS, what is the reason for not having any eastbound VMSs (i.e. for approaches to the inner city from 416, Nepean, Kanata, etc.)?

[1overcosc]

Here's the document: http://app05.ottawa.ca/sirepub/agdocs.aspx?doctype=agenda&itemid=312880

The city determined that a fare gate system would be cheaper than a POP system.

[Kitchissippi]

A fare-paid debarking platform for bus to LRT transfers would make some sense, but not the platforms where people make LRT to bus transfers. There will likely be electronic turnstiles to measure transfer data, though.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

A fare-paid debarking platform for bus to LRT transfers would make some sense, but not the platforms where people make LRT to bus transfers. There will likely be electronic turnstiles to measure transfer data, though.

The city's own reasonings for having fare paid LRT->Bus transfers:

At the three major bus transfer stations, this procedure will allow for all-door boarding on connecting bus routes within the bus terminal and on all bus types. All door boarding results in faster customer boarding and shorter dwell times for buses, which is desirable from an operational and customer service perspective. Given the constraints of land availability at the bus transfer stations, the number of bus platforms is limited and therefore requires all-door boarding of buses to ensure the bus terminal can accommodate enough bus capacity to meet the customer demand.

Essentially making customers pay/validate when boarding the bus means dwell times are too high.

For data measurement, I have not seen any info from the city on that, but it wouldn't be that hard to install some sort of computer system that keeps track of where passengers are moving to when going to the bus platforms.