DENVER | Main Development Thread #6

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by denconyny

I thought that this was something that was planned (once upon a time) to go on that site.......

http://www.archdaily.com/125980/lincoln-mixed-use-meridian-105-architecture/

I really like the design, and would be great for the that block..... but is Denver really ready for something like this? Hey, and airport, or an art museum we can handle.... but a regular ol' building?

Nah, that was just some architects attempt to burnish his portfolio- in no way was it a serious proposal.

Erik Osborn, the developer of One Lincoln Park, had a proposal for a mixed-use development on the block, but that was before he was busted for felony theft.

[bcp]

another alley bites the dust....sad sad...looking forward to this massive podium with a single tower in the center...(yes, i really hope I am wrong)

[Fritzdude]

Originally Posted by bcp

another alley bites the dust....sad sad...looking forward to this massive podium with a single tower in the center...(yes, i really hope I am wrong)

I'm thinking about Chicago along their Magnificent Mile (Michigan Ave): you won't find any alleys within several blocks of this central district of the city.

They seem to do ok with it..

[mr1138]

I think it's all about scale. Large city blocks seem to do fine in big-city environments, I think that's absolutely true. I do sometimes worry though, because I think part of what is missing in American cities - what scares many people away from urban environments even - is the lack of human scale urban streets and environments like those found in pre-war small towns and Medieval European cities. There are few chances in an established urban environment to create new pedestrian side streets, but a full undeveloped block certainly seems to be one (like what was done at Writer's Square or the Pavilions).

Part of me feels a twinge of apprehension when I see these full city blocks get developed in this way; actually eliminating a public ROW rather than creating new ones. But I think that's mostly my selfish desire to continue dreaming about what I would rather put there. As Fritzdude points out, this is the kind of location where massive buildings and busy streets sort of define the urban character.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Nah, that was just some architects attempt to burnish his portfolio- in no way was it a serious proposal.

Erik Osborn, the developer of One Lincoln Park, had a proposal for a mixed-use development on the block, but that was before he was busted for felony theft.

DenverInfill once featured a photograph of a display board from inside the OLP sales office back in 2005-2006 before the project broke ground, that showed massing diagrams of their plans for the full city block across the street (where the project under discussion is proposed) as well as another half-block adjacent. They were showing prospective condo-purchasers visiting the sales office that diagram as a way of selling them on the project, enticing them with promises of neighboring towers with a huge rooftop park and a ground-floor Whole Foods. The person who took the photo of the board did so while the sales person had briefly stepped out of the room and then they sent it to me. At least, that's what I recall. It may have even been someone from this forum (RDS70?). I don't remember.

After posting it on DenverInfill, I got a nasty email from their lawyers threatening to sue me for posting a photo of that diagram. Turns out, the reason they never showed those plans publicly on their website--and why they were panicked over DenverInfill posting it--was that it was all bullshit. They had no control over any of those adjacent parcels and their promises of adjacent towers and rooftop parks and Whole Foods were fantasy. That's not to say they couldn't have accomplished those additional developments as future phases, but at that time they were leading people to believe they were definitive Phases 2 and 3 of the project. I'm sure I still have the photo at home somewhere. Maybe I'll post it.

[seventwenty]

A few articles of interest from today's papers.

Continuing the housing discussion:

Apartment inventory heads toward 20-year high, boom lifts Denver economy

Originally Posted by Denver Post

Apartments contributed $10.4 billion to the metro Denver economy and supported 97,400 jobs in 2013, according to a study released Tuesday by the National Multifamily Housing Council and the National Apartment Association.

. . .

Of the metro Denver total, apartment construction contributed $1.6 billion in economic activity, with another $1.6 billion added from apartment operations. Renters in metro Denver, who numbered just shy of 440,000, paid another $7.1 billion in rents in 2013.

Metro Denver added about 9,000 new apartments last year, up significantly from the 1,300 units built in 2011 and the 4,200 built in 2013, according to Cary Bruteig, a principal with Apartment Appraisers & Consultants in Denver.

. . .

Bruteig is forecasting metro Denver could reach 11,000 new apartments this year, breaking a 1973 record, and continue to add 10,000 a year for the next few years.

. . .

The new supply should be large enough to lift vacancy rates and put a cap on rent increases, Bruteig predicts. It should also result in George Mason University reporting a much bigger economic-impact number next year and going forward.

Keep in mind the vacancy rate in Dec. 2014 under 5% and average 1 BRs were around $1,400/mo. If we're still adding 15,000 people to Denver alone, are we really making a dent in the vacancy rate (and hopefully lowering rents), or are were merely keeping up with increased demand?

Demolition underway at 9th and Colorado health-center site

Originally Posted by Denver Biz Journal

Continuum Partners LLC and CIM Group Inc. are tearing down nearly all the buildings on the site, leaving a nurses dormitory building, a 1,000-car parking structure and the five-story Research Bridge that crosses Ninth Avenue. These buildings will be repurposed for use in the final development.

. . .

Once demolition is complete, a multi-phased development will begin, constructing residential, retail, office and hotel buildings.

The project will receive $47.9 million in tax-increment financing, which was approved by Denver City Council in December.

. . .

Demolition and abatement is expected to last about 16 months. Planning and design of the first phase of the project is underway with vertical construction expected to being later this year while demolition is still in progress.

[Scottk]

Don't know if this is old news or not but noticed that the stupid kinetic artwork at union station is up and running. My first time seeing it today. It is dumb

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

After posting it on DenverInfill, I got a nasty email from their lawyers threatening to sue me for posting a photo of that diagram. Turns out, the reason they never showed those plans publicly on their website--and why they were panicked over DenverInfill posting it--was that it was all bullshit. They had no control over any of those adjacent parcels and their promises of adjacent towers and rooftop parks and Whole Foods were fantasy. That's not to say they couldn't have accomplished those additional developments as future phases, but at that time they were leading people to believe they were definitive Phases 2 and 3 of the project. I'm sure I still have the photo at home somewhere. Maybe I'll post it.

That's really interesting. They were most definitely selling those as being firmly in the pipeline. I think I even asked if they owned the adjacent properties and was told they did. I guess I figured that all died after the lawsuit/jail thing happened... never realized it was never even a real possibility.

[enjo13]

Originally Posted by Scottk

Don't know if this is old news or not but noticed that the stupid kinetic artwork at union station is up and running. My first time seeing it today. It is dumb

I really like the thing over the train tracks. It looks like a dude waving.

[DownhomeDenver]

Originally Posted by Stonemans_rowJ

We'll probably start to see smaller condo projects first. In fact, there is one just listed on the MLS in Rino/Balpark. http://www.factoryflats.com

Hey that's the lot that BCP used to own at 32nd and Blake.

[DenverInfill]

Originally Posted by enjo13

That's really interesting. They were most definitely selling those as being firmly in the pipeline. I think I even asked if they owned the adjacent properties and was told they did. I guess I figured that all died after the lawsuit/jail thing happened... never realized it was never even a real possibility.

I wouldn't put it that way. It was a possibility, just a more speculative possibility than they were leading people to believe.

[rds70]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

The person who took the photo of the board did so while the sales person had briefly stepped out of the room and then they sent it to me. At least, that's what I recall. It may have even been someone from this forum (RDS70?). I don't remember.

Nope. Wasn't me.

[enjo13]

This somehow seems relevant here, but someone finally made a really good city building game. I've been playing for a few hours.. it's pretty rad.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/cities-skylines

[mojiferous]

Originally Posted by enjo13

This somehow seems relevant here, but someone finally made a really good city building game. I've been playing for a few hours.. it's pretty rad.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/cities-skylines

I'll second that, and with a little elbow grease you can import buildings from something like Sketchup.

[bcp]

Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver

Hey that's the lot that BCP used to own at 32nd and Blake.

that it is...looks like a nice project! still have the plans for LIFT rowhomes...some other lot, some other time

[TakeFive]

Reading through comments especially by EngiNerd and seventwenty about residential housing availability and pricing nearly leaves me speechless (if you can imagine). It appears that Denver will continue to grow, likely both out and up.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The owner of the parcels is BMS Property Management out of Houston. They mostly have a portfolio of office towers, garages, and retail centers in Texas. While they haven't partnered with Novare Development (Skyhouse) on any other residential developments, they are currently working on a 40-story, 463-unit residential tower in Houston, Market Square Tower.

So, probably not a Skyhouse II & III, but rather a Glasshouse II.

Always amazed how you are able to drill down and dig up key information.

[TakeFive]

Will Metro Denver (MSA) population be over 5 million by 2045?

Earlier I read about some population projections for Texas carried by the various city business journals.

"Texas to see explosive growth: Population to double by 2050"
Mar 7, 2015, by Michael Theis - Digital Editor- Austin Business Journal

According to the report, Texas' population, currently estimated to be 26,230,098 residents, will grow to 54,446,355 residents by 2050

A followup article carried this headline:

"Map: Texas suburbs, not cities, to grow the fastest by 2050; one Central Texas county will top them all"
Mar 9, 2015, Michael Theis - Digital Editor- Austin Business Journal

Of course Texas has been on a tear over the last 15 years or so and given how much it's already grown that's an impressive growth projection.

Growing off a much smaller base could Denver experience a similar percentage growth to the metro areas in Texas? How much of a stretch is it to suggest that Metro Denver could add another 750,000 people by the end of 2025?

That would mean a lot of auto sales etc. etc.

[bunt_q]

The state demographer thinks it's closer to 500,000 between 2015 and 2025. Overall 1 million new folks for the state: 500k Denver, 120k Colo Spgs, 160k Ft Collins/Greeley, 30k Boulder, 150k Western Slops

[Denver]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

The state demographer thinks it's closer to 500,000 between 2015 and 2025. Overall 1 million new folks for the state: 500k Denver, 120k Colo Spgs, 160k Ft Collins/Greeley, 30k Boulder, 150k Western Slops

Just don't tell anyone from Boulder that their city is about to grow...

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

I think we millenials are content with smaller, but it's reached the point now where even that's not even an option. Even our generation has its limit, and 400 square feet in a place that is still not Manhattan just isn't worth it. It's not that far to cheaper burbs surrounding Denver - you can get there in 20 minutes still. Also, millenials value work-life balance. Which is a little hard to get when you need to make $150k to pay your mortgage. Englewood ain't that bad.

Considering there are as many jobs in the Tech Center as Downtown...

This begs a question: It seems to me the main thing holding back growth of much larger scale TODs in the Denver suburbs (aside from NIMBYism) has been that downtown still had so many empty lots that it was sucking up all the demand for urban development. Maybe that's changing now.

It really is too bad the SE light rail stays on I-25 all through the Tech Center. That's a missed opportunity. Would've been fantastic as an el on Ulster Street.

How's the Belleview TOD looking these days? Anything there? It looks like a construction site on google maps.