O-Train Line 1/3 [Stage 2 | West Extension | Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Route 85 definitely works well, it is quite frequent most of the day and most trips use artics. Any overcrowding could be solved by any of:

* Increase the 85 frequency even more
* Increase north-south service perpendicular to the Carling corridor
* Rapid service along the Carling corridor, such as a limited stop version of the 85 and provide bus lanes or transit priority measures

As well, I do recommend that the service hours be increased on the 101, with more late evening service on weekdays and Sunday service at least during the daytime. In order to maintain transfers to routes to the southeast and speed up overall service, during the LRT construction, some peak period trips should be converted to a new route 100 which could run along part of the Southeast Transitway (perhaps interline with another route like 146 or 148 to allow service as far as Billings Bridge), while other 101's should operate to Place d'Orleans bypassing Hurdman for a faster trip.

I work at Carling/Maple and I can say that Carling bus service is decent in that area.

The main problem with the 85 is its very poor reliability in the PM peak. For some reason that I don't quite understand, the 85 is decently reliable in the AM (never more than a few minutes late, almost never early), but in the PM it's all over the place.

Some trips in the later part of the AM are a bit overcrowded (it drops to mid-day frequency at 8:30 which is a bit too early), but other than that it rarely suffers from overcrowding.

The Preston Street portion of the 85 is one of the few areas of the city where stop spacing is reasonable. Unlike most other mainstreet areas the stops are not so absurdly close together that it has a massive drag on travel times. It does a good balance between good access to most of the street and efficient travel. Now, the area around the Civic Hospital has **way** too many bus stops. When you have two bus stops in between legal street crossings, it's too much.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Dado

No way should we be sinking more money into another Hwy 417 underpass at Pinecrest Creek.

The one we've got is already four lanes wide, plus two platforms, also a lane wide each. Considering further that the station can be relocated to the south (so that Iris can be closed as a station), there's more than enough width down there to accommodate both LRT construction and BRT.

If anything, I wonder if the car-loving NCC might not seize the opportunity to create a connection from the Queensway to the SJAM Parkway, which by that time will be happily free of buses and visible transit users.

Oh there is? Didn't know. In that case, ya, the city should just keep the Transitway from Lincoln Fields through to Iris Road open in parallel to LRT construction.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

The only buses running on Richmond Road for the most part are Route 2, and that is unlikely to change.

At least not until the Transit Queen starts "optimizing" that route, too.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by JM1

I can't believe the expense they will go to to bury the LRT along the parkway. Save that money and spend it on a Montreal road buried LRT!

Why can't the East End get the same benefits as the West End?

Don't be silly; LRT is for suburbanites and West End gentry; the rest of us sods have to make do with buses, forever.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Some trips in the later part of the AM are a bit overcrowded (it drops to mid-day frequency at 8:30 which is a bit too early), but other than that it rarely suffers from overcrowding.

There are a bunch of trunk routes that do that. I can't figure out why, except for the Explanation For Everything: the people who run transit don't actually use transit.

[Aylmer]

You forgot your catchphrase

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Ken Gray is calling for Watson to resign over this.

http://bulldogottawa.com/lrt-jim-watson-should-resign/

He wants the worst possible option - LRT along Carling from the Trillium Line corridor, which is a no-no for two reasons: it divides the regional rail network (and requires 2 transfers for many movements) and also does not serve Tunney's Pasture, which has very high ridership.

Agreed Carling is not a great option, but he's right that it makes no sense to bury a transit line under a park.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by JM1

I can't believe the expense they will go to to bury the LRT along the parkway. Save that money and spend it on a Montreal road buried LRT!

Why can't the East End get the same benefits as the West End?

Likely because the money that would cost to run LRT down Montreal Road would be much more than is costs to bury it under the Parkway.

If we were to spend the money it would cost to bury under the parkway on a subway to Montreal Road, we likely wouldnt even reach Montreal Road assuming a departure from the Rideau Centre. So likely this request of yours is not only unlikely, but poorly thought out.

However, if we were to cancel all the expansion of Phase 1, then likely a subway along Montreal Road would be possible... However, that would render Phase 1 quite useless. So while a subway along Montreal Road, Bank Street and an elevated/buried line alone Carling are the best way to improve inner city transit, even reallocations of current and past funds would likely be unable to cover the price tag for one of the aforementioned.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Likely because the money that would cost to run LRT down Montreal Road would be much more than is costs to bury it under the Parkway.

If we were to spend the money it would cost to bury under the parkway on a subway to Montreal Road, we likely wouldnt even reach Montreal Road assuming a departure from the Rideau Centre. So likely this request of yours is not only unlikely, but poorly thought out.

However, if we were to cancel all the expansion of Phase 1, then likely a subway along Montreal Road would be possible... However, that would render Phase 1 quite useless. So while a subway along Montreal Road, Bank Street and an elevated/buried line alone Carling are the best way to improve inner city transit, even reallocations of current and past funds would likely be unable to cover the price tag for one of the aforementioned.

And thus, the inner city will continue to "enjoy" transit that sucks for at least a century.

Thanks, suburbs! Enjoy riding my taxes while I ride the bus!

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And thus, the inner city will continue to "enjoy" transit that sucks for at least a century.

Thanks, suburbs! Enjoy riding my taxes while I ride the bus!

Transit doesnt suck, you are just probably trying to go to the wrong places.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by MoreTrains

Transit doesnt suck, you are just probably trying to go to the wrong places.

He wishes the suburbs would lose all transit altogether.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

He wishes the suburbs would lose all transit altogether.

Not at all. Not even remotely true.

I just wish there was some vision for real transit in the city core.

But there isn't.

Just buses, mainly 40-footers, with routes cut up into little chunks that don't connect neighbourhoods across the canal, for reasons of "optimization" - i.e., for keeping the owners of the Rideau Centre happy, central residents be damned.

Enjoy your LRT, suburbs, because us morons in the core are going to be putting up with overcrowded, inefficient, and poorly-connect bus transit - not even the "rapid" variety - for our lifetimes and that of probably two more generations.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There are a bunch of trunk routes that do that. I can't figure out why, except for the Explanation For Everything: the people who run transit don't actually use transit.

I think OC overestimates the number of people who work earlier hours. Bus service is clearly oriented towards 7-3 and 8-4 commuters more so than to 9-5 commuters. Many routes have higher frequencies at 7AM than they do at 9AM The result being that 7AM buses are half empty and 9AM buses are jammed.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I think OC overestimates the number of people who work earlier hours. Bus service is clearly oriented towards 7-3 and 8-4 commuters more so than to 9-5 commuters. Many routes have higher frequencies at 7AM than they do at 9AM The result being that 7AM buses are half empty and 9AM buses are jammed.

And yet, no matter how many times you complain to OC Transpo "customer service" about ridiculous overcrowding and buses that have to stop picking up passengers altogether, they will deny to their dying breaths that there are reports of overcrowding, and insist that there is no reason, according to their data, to increase frequencies or assign larger-capacity vehicles to the runs.

It is infuriating.

[JM1]

+1

I am always surprised at how infrequent and inconsistent the buses are after 830 am!

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I think OC overestimates the number of people who work earlier hours. Bus service is clearly oriented towards 7-3 and 8-4 commuters more so than to 9-5 commuters. Many routes have higher frequencies at 7AM than they do at 9AM The result being that 7AM buses are half empty and 9AM buses are jammed.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

He wishes the suburbs would lose all transit altogether.

He is looking for the city to expand its transit coverage properly. AKA: Innercity gets the high-capacity transit coverage where as the Suburbs get commuter transit. The inner city is where most congestion is, where most people live and where the highest densities are. High density in other cities mean subways/lrts. High density in Ottawa is just a thru-way for commuters.

The suburbs should be getting better BRT coverage. The Inner-City should be getting better LRT/Subway coverage. There is no reason why the city isnt putting rail to Rockliffe, there is potential for HUGE development, and with the proper density 50000 residents. But no, Orleans is more important, followed by Riverside South, Kanata, Barrhaven then Ottawa.

[silvergate]

Does anybody know what kind of data analytics OC has in place? They could absolutely start improving the entire system if they took the right steps now to begin data collection. I'm doing a project for school on it and found all kinds of interesting uses of data collected. In Helsinki they shaved off 5% of their fuel costs by capturing data on hard-braking of busses, for example.

Improving the bus service is going to become a lot easier if they start setting that up.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by silvergate

Does anybody know what kind of data analytics OC has in place? They could absolutely start improving the entire system if they took the right steps now to begin data collection. I'm doing a project for school on it and found all kinds of interesting uses of data collected. In Helsinki they shaved off 5% of their fuel costs by capturing data on hard-braking of busses, for example.

Improving the bus service is going to become a lot easier if they start setting that up.

I read somewhere that there was a transit commission that used tweet locations to optimize bus routes. OC could do something like this, or tie in a people counter to their automated GPS systems. This could give real time usage data.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I think OC overestimates the number of people who work earlier hours. Bus service is clearly oriented towards 7-3 and 8-4 commuters more so than to 9-5 commuters. Many routes have higher frequencies at 7AM than they do at 9AM The result being that 7AM buses are half empty and 9AM buses are jammed.

As someone who's worked 08:30-16:30 or 09:00-17:00 for most of my career I can attest to the drop in service after 08:00.

Now I'm ecstatic that it's finally warm enough to just ride my bike everyday again. Screw the bus (until next winter).

[Urbanarchit]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I think OC overestimates the number of people who work earlier hours. Bus service is clearly oriented towards 7-3 and 8-4 commuters more so than to 9-5 commuters. Many routes have higher frequencies at 7AM than they do at 9AM The result being that 7AM buses are half empty and 9AM buses are jammed.

Empty 7am buses may depend on the route, but if you're taking the transitway at 7 the bus will be jam-packed. I have class at Algonquin at 8am, and the bus is always so full there's barely room to stand.

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

As someone who's worked 08:30-16:30 or 09:00-17:00 for most of my career I can attest to the drop in service after 08:00.

Now I'm ecstatic that it's finally warm enough to just ride my bike everyday again. Screw the bus (until next winter).

+1

I don't know if the route to Algonquin will be melted yet for me to get to school, but I'm hoping to pump my tires and bring it in for check-up so I can start cycling ASAP.