PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[AaronPGH]

Developers show renewed interest in hotel at convention center's doorstep
http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...vention-center-area/stories/201503050117

I really have a feeling whatever mix this thing turns out to be, it could give PNC Plaza a run for it's money in height. You slap office, residential and 600 hotel rooms together and that could be a very tall tower.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

You slap office, residential, Dollar Tree and 600 hotel rooms together and that could be a very tall tower.

Agreed. Very exciting.

[Austinlee]

^

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

Which office park is the new USX headquarters being built in? Oh wait......

I think we should give the Hill District a new name to reflect its new character. How about Hillpointe, Hillberry or Hillville Township.

[BrianTH]

Hilltucky?

West Hillginia?

[JVC]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

I think we should give the Hill District a new name to reflect its new character. How about Hillpointe, Hillberry or Hillville Township.

The Hill at Walnut on Centre

[AaronPGH]

Dollar Tree is the black/blue vs gold/white dress of SSP.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

The Hill at Walnut on Centre

If only.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Again, it does.

Your actual complaint is that the main entrance on the corner is a ground floor retail entrance rather than an upper floor apartment entrance, but of course it makes perfect sense for that to be a ground floor retail entrance.

graduating from architecture school makes it easier to understand these concepts

the term "main entrance" means an entrance that allows access to all of the floors of the building

the entrance shown at the corner of penn and highland cannot be the main entrance because it does not allow access to all floors of the building

in its current configuration the "main entrance" to the penn building, referred to on the renderings as the "Residential Entrance", the entrance that allows access to all floors of the building, is located on antler way, a service alley which runs parallel to penn avenue and is located in the back of the building, similar to comet way in shadyside which runs parallel to walnut street and is used mainly for dumpsters and employee parking



based on the rendering the "residential" main entrance at the penn building appears to be approximately 50 feet from the building dumpsters

now that's a selling point!

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

Dollar Tree is the black/blue vs gold/white dress of SSP.

I actually think we sorta came to a mutual understanding of some sort (not necessarily full agreement, but I certainly learned some things and I now understand better the specific concerns when it comes to relative performance on sustainability issues).

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

graduating from architecture school makes it easier to understand these concepts

And my educational background helps me recognize logical fallacies, semantic games, and otherwise baseless arguments when I see them.

the term "main entrance" means an entrance that allows access to all of the floors of the building

Well, then it is stupid to insist a building like this should have a "main entrance" defined in that way. Why should ground floor retail and upper floor apartments have the same entrance? That would be pointless and contrary to the interests of both classes of tenants.

in its current configuration the "main entrance" to the penn building, the entrance that allows access to all floors of the building

I highly doubt that you will be able to access the ground floor retail from there, so no, that is not a "main entrance" either by your definition.

Again, you can play semantic games all you want, but it makes perfect sense for the ground floor corner retail establishment to have the big prominent entrance, and for the upper floor apartments to have secondary entrances off Highland and on Penn.

[JVC]

examining the renderings further, even the architect acknowledges that the "residential" main entrance is located at the "back" of the building near the dumpsters

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Again, you can play semantic games all you want

speaking of semantic games, calling a service alley a "courtyard" does not make it a courtyard just like calling a bus an airplane does not make it an airplane

antler way is a service alley meant for dumpsters and back door access to deliver retail merchandise without disturbing customers in the front of the store,
similar to comet way in shadyside

antler way is not a courtyard no matter what people choose to call it

[BrianTH]

Once again the goal posts have moved, but this time I believe there is in fact at least a reasonable point to be made.

Although the new design added a second apartment entrance on Penn, I agree the main apartment entrance (where the apartment lobby and elevators are located) remains in the gated area off Highland. And I agree that ideally, it would instead be directly on Penn or Highland.

I don't agree that the gated area off Highland is doomed to be unpleasant--if they do a nice job decorating and lighting it, it could be perfectly nice. Certainly there is a long history around the world of converting alleys and such into pleasant outdoor spaces. So I don't have a problem with The Penn and The Highland using that as a shared outdoor space.

However, I don't like the message it may send (undoubtedly inadvertently) to locate the main apartment entrance there. Specifically, I understand why they want that area to be fenced off for private use, but putting the entrance there too may convey the impression that they think they need layers of physical barriers to protect the residents' entrance. Obviously they don't actually believe that--they haven't tried to protect the entrances to The Highland and Wallace Buildings that way, nor the new entrance on Penn--but it is potentially a sensitive topic as East Liberty is still by some measures a transitional neighborhood.

That said, I also understand the tradeoffs inherent in all this. Obviously, it is desirable for as much of the frontage along Penn and Highland to be retail as possible, and a more prominent apartment entrance and lobby directly on Penn or Highland might effectively remove a storefront from the plan. Also, it obviously makes sense to try to front the apartments themselves along Penn and Highland--for light and view purposes as well as aesthetics--and I could see a lobby with elevator bank directly on Penn or Highland forcing you to cut out some of the apartments above.

So if I was on City Planning, say, I would have put my concerns about the gated nature of the main apartment entrance and lobby to Walnut Capital, and see what they said in response. If I was persuaded the negative tradeoffs to moving the apartment lobby outweighed that concern, then I would probably go ahead and approve this plan.

And for all we know, that is exactly what happened.

[BrianTH]

By the way, those Highland- and Antler-side renderings really underscore how the overall design of the building conveys the impression it is made up of several pre-WWII-scale narrow commercial buildings. Again, I personally think that is very clever and a nice touch.

[GeneW]

Drove past yesterday evening and noticed that they're already taking down the facades from the old buildings.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by GeneW

Drove past yesterday evening and noticed that they're already taking down the facades from the old buildings.

Cool! Quibbling aside, this is going to be a great project for Downtown East Liberty. As always it would be nice if it were taller, but it is still going to be the second-tallest building around the church square after the Highland Building (currently the second-tallest is the 5-story YMCA/Ace Hotel, then the C.H. Rowe/Penn-Highland Building (on the opposite corner) at 4 stories). Combined with the historic buildings across Penn, and suddenly that stretch of Penn is going to have a very different, much more urban/downtown, feel.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Once again the goal posts have moved, but this time I believe there is in fact at least a reasonable point to be made.

hopefully for the tenants' sake the building maintenance staff will keep those dumpsters smelling good!

it's safe to say a person paying +$1000 a month in rent at the new penn building isn't going to be happy
if they have to deal with the smell garbage every time they enter the building

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

putting the entrance there too may convey the impression that they think they need layers of physical barriers to protect the residents' entrance.

ya think?

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Obviously they don't actually believe that--they haven't tried to protect the entrances to The Highland and Wallace Buildings that way, nor the new entrance on Penn--but it is potentially a sensitive topic as East Liberty is still by some measures a transitional neighborhood.

it's inconceivable that a developer would ever have thoughts like that

Originally Posted by BrianTH

they haven't tried to protect the entrances to The Highland and Wallace Buildings that way

short of erecting a wall on the sidewalk there was no way to protect those entrances

Originally Posted by BrianTH

but it is potentially a sensitive topic as East Liberty is still by some measures a transitional neighborhood.

and a neighborhood with increasing income inequality as more affluent people move in and low-income people remain

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

it's safe to say a person paying +$1000 a month in rent at the new penn building isn't going to be happy
if they have to deal with the smell garbage every time they enter the building

That's what, about 50-60 feet? Shouldn't be a problem.