PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[tsarstruck]

Originally Posted by Philly Kid

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/heardinthehall/Nutters-last-budget-proposal.html

Unfortunately it sounds like Nutter is proposing to raise property taxes by 9.4% in his budget.

Keep the political editorializing to yourself. I'd leave out the "un" and add in a "to support the school system actually making progress rather than just stopping the bleeding" but regardless, no one hear needs to hear either of our political opinions on the issue.

[Philly Kid]

That's fine, didn't mean for it to be a politicized statement. I was more expressing regret at the possible development and residential infill implications it might have on the city as a whole. I typically get over concerned that levying any additional taxes on the residents in this city will serve to slow down the population growth we have been accustomed to over the last decade. Who knows, considering the overall tax burden in the immediate suburbs maybe this will be negligible. That's my hope at least.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by Philly Kid

That's fine, didn't mean for it to be a politicized statement. I was more expressing regret at the possible development and residential infill implications it might have on the city as a whole. I typically get over concerned that levying any additional taxes on the residents in this city will serve to slow down the population growth we have been accustomed to over the last decade. Who knows, considering the overall tax burden in the immediate suburbs maybe this will be negligible. That's my hope at least.

Don't apologize for anything. Re-read your sentence. You said nothing political. You only made a statement of a policy's merits/demerits. This forum is getting ridiculous frankly. I'm sick of the cyber-warriors trying to chill conversations about policy because they tend to disagree with a statement. Anything can have political implications, but saying a tax hike is unfortunate is a statement of policy, and has everything to do with Philly's development.

I'm at the breaking point, and frankly from PMs with others I'm not alone.

[sayitaintso]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Don't apologize for anything. Re-read your sentence. You said nothing political. You only made a statement of a policy's merits/demerits. This forum is getting ridiculous frankly. I'm sick of the cyber-warriors trying to chill conversations about policy because they tend to disagree with a statement. Anything can have political implications, but saying a tax hike is unfortunate is a statement of policy, and has everything to do with Philly's development.

I'm at the breaking point, and frankly from PMs with others I'm not alone.

Agree taxes are bad for business..especially skyscrapers, you can' keep raising property taxes 10% every other year...there are other ways

[allovertown]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Don't apologize for anything. Re-read your sentence. You said nothing political. You only made a statement of a policy's merits/demerits. This forum is getting ridiculous frankly. I'm sick of the cyber-warriors trying to chill conversations about policy because they tend to disagree with a statement. Anything can have political implications, but saying a tax hike is unfortunate is a statement of policy, and has everything to do with Philly's development.

I'm at the breaking point, and frankly from PMs with others I'm not alone.

You're a true hero for standing up what you believe in. You have political opinions and god dammit people will hear about them regardless of their relevance to the topic at hand or the fact that no one else is interested in hearing them.

[Outta here]

Originally Posted by allovertown

You're a true hero for standing up what you believe in. You have political opinions and god dammit people will hear about them regardless of their relevance to the topic at hand or the fact that no one else is interested in hearing them.

[McBane]

I didn't see any politicizing. Wasn't it just a page ago that everyone was discussing the merits of Wolf's budget, particularly the plan to halve corporate taxes? Now that the news is bad, suddenly taxes can't be discussed?

Back to the topic at hand, I've lost count of how many times Nutter has or tried to raise taxes. I know he proposed soda and cigarette taxes a few times. And he raised property taxes significantly before the last RE tax overhaul and now this?

As we've said in the past, living in the city has some disadvantages but low RE taxes was one of the pluses we had over the suburbs. That advantage is slowly withering away. There must be a different way to balance the budget and fix the schools without continually raising taxes. This increase will have a small affect on the recent millennials and baby boomers who live in CC and the adjacent neighborhoods. What I do worry about are the middle and working class folks who live in the outer neighborhoods, people who probably don't give a damn about walkability, access to CC, restaurants, bars, etc. but people who quietly pay their taxes, maintain their homes, and populate city neighborhoods. In order for Philadelphia to survive and thrive, it can't be city that has hallowed out its middle class and is supported entirely by millenials and baby boomers.

[Philly Kid]

In the updated article it sounds like several members of Council are already coming out against the tax increase. In all honestly this probably won't pass and this might be Nutter saying a big "F You" to Clarke for sabotaging the PGW sale.

[josef]

The thing with property taxes to me is that no one cares as long as you like what you're getting in return. Everyone in my town pays pretty high taxes compared to Philly, but most people are pretty happy with the schools. If Philly can put together a good product, people'll pay.

[PhiLaw]

Originally Posted by McBane

I didn't see any politicizing. Wasn't it just a page ago that everyone was discussing the merits of Wolf's budget, particularly the plan to halve corporate taxes? Now that the news is bad, suddenly taxes can't be discussed?

Back to the topic at hand, I've lost count of how many times Nutter has or tried to raise taxes. I know he proposed soda and cigarette taxes a few times. And he raised property taxes significantly before the last RE tax overhaul and now this?

As we've said in the past, living in the city has some disadvantages but low RE taxes was one of the pluses we had over the suburbs. That advantage is slowly withering away. There must be a different way to balance the budget and fix the schools without continually raising taxes. This increase will have a small affect on the recent millennials and baby boomers who live in CC and the adjacent neighborhoods. What I do worry about are the middle and working class folks who live in the outer neighborhoods, people who probably don't give a damn about walkability, access to CC, restaurants, bars, etc. but people who quietly pay their taxes, maintain their homes, and populate city neighborhoods. In order for Philadelphia to survive and thrive, it can't be city that has hallowed out its middle class and is supported entirely by millenials and baby boomers.

Couldn't agree more. A few thousand millenials moved into the city the past decade. Over 1.5 million people live in this city, the majority of whom are tax-paying working families. Far NE phila is still running strong, but it will decay (many of my friends from the NE say this has already happened) if these issues continue. Where I grew up on Porter St, many families moved to SJ. Taxes are higher there, but they think the perceived increase in QOL is commensurate with the higher taxes. Without a strong working and middle class we'll end up being a tale of two cities, with well-to-do and poor people but not much in between.

[1487]

Originally Posted by sayitaintso

Agree taxes are bad for business..especially skyscrapers, you can' keep raising property taxes 10% every other year...there are other ways

Most pro-business tax reformers say the property tax is the tax they would like to see shoulder a bigger portion of the load. This is the position of almost everyone who is supposedly "pro business". As the wage tax decreases it will be a smaller and smaller portion of the overall budget.

[1487]

Originally Posted by PhiLaw

Couldn't agree more. A few thousand millenials moved into the city the past decade. Over 1.5 million people live in this city, the majority of whom are tax-paying working families. Far NE phila is still running strong, but it will decay (many of my friends from the NE say this has already happened) if these issues continue. Where I grew up on Porter St, many families moved to SJ. Taxes are higher there, but they think the perceived increase in QOL is commensurate with the higher taxes. Without a strong working and middle class we'll end up being a tale of two cities, with well-to-do and poor people but not much in between.

The majority of pepole in this city are working class or middle class. Even if you account for the huge proportion of poor people this is still the case. Taxes are going up all over the place so the idea that hardworking middle class people are going to move to the burbs to avoid tax increases is absurd. elections have consequences. Once budgets were cut at the state level to avoid any tax or fee increases the trickle down effect led to local tax increases all over the state. This is one reason why we have a new governor. The last guy was touting is record of maintaining the line on taxes but all that happened is the burden of school funding was shifted to the local level.

Philly propery taxes are still cheap. And let's not forget a significant number of people (the NE is one area that benefitted) saw a reduction in taxes under AVI. And when AVI came into reality we heard all kinds of doom and gloom about how people in gentrifying areas would be priced out due to getting accurate tax bills. Don't think any of that has happened.....

[1487]

Originally Posted by Philly Kid

In the updated article it sounds like several members of Council are already coming out against the tax increase. In all honestly this probably won't pass and this might be Nutter saying a big "F You" to Clarke for sabotaging the PGW sale.

They will come up with most of the money. It probably wont be from a 10% property tax hike. These same people wouldnt support a soda tax which is one reason we had a 2nd property tax hike. These people woulnt sell PGW which means more money from general fund has to go to pension fund which means less money that could be put into schools. Council has no leg to stand on which means at the end of the day they will have to get behind SOMETHING that pumps more money into district. I suspect they will support modest tax incease and increase proportion of property taxes that go towards PSD. Also look for something to happen with 10 year abatement.

[Philly-Drew]

Originally Posted by McBane

I didn't see any politicizing. Wasn't it just a page ago that everyone was discussing the merits of Wolf's budget, particularly the plan to halve corporate taxes? Now that the news is bad, suddenly taxes can't be discussed?

Back to the topic at hand, I've lost count of how many times Nutter has or tried to raise taxes. I know he proposed soda and cigarette taxes a few times. And he raised property taxes significantly before the last RE tax overhaul and now this?

As we've said in the past, living in the city has some disadvantages but low RE taxes was one of the pluses we had over the suburbs. That advantage is slowly withering away. There must be a different way to balance the budget and fix the schools without continually raising taxes. This increase will have a small affect on the recent millennials and baby boomers who live in CC and the adjacent neighborhoods. What I do worry about are the middle and working class folks who live in the outer neighborhoods, people who probably don't give a damn about walkability, access to CC, restaurants, bars, etc. but people who quietly pay their taxes, maintain their homes, and populate city neighborhoods. In order for Philadelphia to survive and thrive, it can't be city that has hallowed out its middle class and is supported entirely by millenials and baby boomers.

Well said.

[summersm343]

Since this conversation has not completely gone off the rails yet, it is fine for now, since taxes do relate to Philadelphia development. Let's try not to attack others however. Everyone has differing views and they are entitled to that.

That is the beauty of the country we live in. So let's try to keep this conversation civil please.

[Cro Burnham]

http://www.phillychitchat.com/2015/03/bloomingdales-in-center-city-update-bed.html?m=1


http://www.phillymag.com/property/2015/03/05/bloomingdales-officially-looking-space-center-city/

[Kidphilly]

Originally Posted by Cro Burnham

http://www.phillychitchat.com/2015/03/bloomingdales-in-center-city-update-bed.html?m=1


http://www.phillymag.com/property/2015/03/05/bloomingdales-officially-looking-space-center-city/

very interesting

and seems a rumor of a TJs too - though to me would fit better in East Market (but alreadya MOMs there - could see BB and B and TJs at the Chestnut propert

Would love to see a Nordtroms - maybe smaller but the Atlantic Building

Bloomies in the Gallery would be a big change, truly though and build off C21

[Larry King]

I thought target express would be going to the chestnut st project.

[Cro Burnham]

Originally Posted by Larry King

I thought target express would be going to the chestnut st project.

It's a huge foot print. Probably room enough for both.

Target Express is on 20k SF or so.

[relnahe]

Originally Posted by philaw

couldn't agree more. A few thousand millenials moved into the city the past decade. Over 1.5 million people live in this city, the majority of whom are tax-paying working families. Far ne phila is still running strong, but it will decay (many of my friends from the ne say this has already happened) if these issues continue. Where i grew up on porter st, many families moved to sj. Taxes are higher there, but they think the perceived increase in qol is commensurate with the higher taxes. Without a strong working and middle class we'll end up being a tale of two cities, with well-to-do and poor people but not much in between.

lol