PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II - Page 586

BrianTH · #**11701** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGHFan

Whatever side it is on it certainly is not an eye-catching entrance.

I think the more prominent entrances will be for the ground-floor retail, which makes sense.

BrianTH · #**11702** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC

that language got revised

Good thing.

Quote:

the penn-highland building does not have a front door

I'll bet it has one grander entrance at least on the corner, and probably more doors along Penn and Highland. But those will likely be for the retail establishments.

Quote:

the door you have circled is not the front door because it is not the main entrance to the building - it is a secondary entrance, or "side door"

So if I understand the latest place you have moved these goalposts, your argument is now that it is forbidden for the most prominent entrance to be for the ground floor retail, rather than the upper floor apartments.

Again, I reject the notion that there is any such principle in architecture.

BrianTH · #**11703** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

The mixed use idea seems intriguing... Though I'm not sure what kind of market there'd be for office space or apartments specifically attached to a convention center, I guess that's for them to figure out. If nothing else the mixed use idea will simply add more floors and hopefully the development will pop out of the skyline, as the original hotel plan was going to do.

I assume the main appeal for offices or residential will just be that it is an excellent location in general (although maybe a bit more so for residential), and the combination will allow economies of scale.

BrianTH · #**11704** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeneW

Sigh. Is there a dumber argument to have than "is a door at the front of an apartment building a front door?"

But probably not enough to make people nostalgic for the dollar store discussion.

BrianTH · #**11705** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Dick

A much better and more appropriate design for a prominent corner lot. Again, why can't Pittsburgh believe that it deserves nice things?

Overall I liked The Odeon better when it preserved the historic buildings, although you could probably blend the two designs together:

But in any event, my understanding is their financing never came through. I don't think good design needs to be super-expensive as a rule, but sometimes that is part of the reason specific nice-looking projects don't get done.

BrianTH · #**11706** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evergrey

No... it's not a dumb argument at all. It's absolutely critical to building and streetscape design.

Well, certainly entrance design in general is important.

But the poster in question seems obsessed over the quality and location of the upper-floor apartment entrance in particular, while entirely ignoring the entrances to the ground-floor retail.

That is just odd, and in fact it seems to me the opposite priority would make more sense.

BrianTH · #**11707** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 5:35 PM**

A bunch more pictures here:

http://walnutcapital.com/properties/walnut-on-penn-opening-summer-2016/

Looks to me like the side entrance off Highland remains, and as suspected there is a prominent retail entrance on the corner.

Again, I don't love (or hate) the building in general, but subject to those general luke-warm feelings, I actually like how they handled the historic facades.

Edit: Looking at the picture of the entrance off Highland, I am reminded they intend that to be a shared space with the Highland Building next door. So that presumably explains why they want it to go back into the space between the buildings currently used for an alley.

BrianTH · #**11708** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 6:04 PM**

Straight view along Penn:

I understand the upper-floor design may not be everyone's favorite (nor is it mine). But I do in fact think that is an excellent street-level treatment. You can't beat those old commercial facades, and then the new part is simple but urban-appropriate with a very strong street wall.

It is also pretty clever--I particularly like how the thicker columns on the ground floor are matched with narrow, dark bays above. To me it creates the overall impression of a sequence of pre-WWII-scale narrow commercial buildings (ala the Liberty Building), with then the fanciest, thicker "building" on the corner (balancing out the existing historic, fancier, thicker buiding at the corner with Sheridan).

Edit: Closer shot of facade section. You can really see how they are trying to create the illusion of multiple narrow buildings:

Austinlee · #**11709** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 6:26 PM**

^I like the shape and I like the color.

Austinlee · #**11710** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 6:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC

there should be a rule that every new building in the city has to look something like this hideous piece of garbage

Oh no you di'int.

BrianTH · #**11711** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 6:46 PM**

By the way, one of things I love about architecture in Pittsburgh in general is how eclectic it is. In just one neighborhood you can often see examples of styles from many different eras across quite a bit of time all sort of jumbled together.

That doesn't quite mean I think anything goes in any era. But I do have a bias in favor of letting people do something different and contemporary with new construction, because I am hoping in 50 or 100 years that stuff will just be blended into the overall eclectic mix.

Private Dick · #**11712** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 6:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Oh no you di'int.

I think it's pretty awful too.

Looks like a 3rd-year architecture student's project. Idea is pretty cool, execution... just not quite there.

Aside from the debatable design elements... asymmetry, color palette, materials... the ground floor is particularly bad.

The front of Verde belongs in a strip mall -- a glaring budget choice.

The low quality concrete block... not even getting in to that.

JVC · #**11713** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Again, I reject the notion that there is any such principle in architecture.

you are free to reject any notion you like but anyone who has graduated from architecture school or elementary school for that matter will tell you a building needs to have a front door main entrance that faces the street

it took two minutes to design a front door main entrance for the building

the building is called "The Penn at Walnut on Highland" - maybe they're planning to put the main residential entrance on walnut street

Austinlee · #**11714** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I think it's pretty awful too.

Looks like a 3rd-year architecture student's project. Idea is pretty cool, execution... just not quite there.

Aside from the debatable design elements... asymmetry, color palette, materials... the ground floor is particularly bad.

The front of Verde belongs in a strip mall -- a glaring budget choice.

The low quality concrete block... not even getting in to that.

As in many projects as the development moves forward costs rise and decisions can be made to use cheaper materials.
It happens to a majority of projects unfortunately.

TBone7281 · #**11715** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC

the building is called "The Penn at Walnut on Highland" - maybe they're planning to put the main residential entrance on walnut street

I haven't been that way in a long time, did they rename one of the streets to Walnut?

JVC · #**11716** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBone7281

I haven't been that way in a long time, did they rename one of the streets to Walnut?

no - walnut capital bought the neighborhood

GeneW · #**11717** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBone7281

I haven't been that way in a long time, did they rename one of the streets to Walnut?

Walnut Capital is the developer's name.

TBone7281 · #**11718** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC

the building is called "The Penn at Walnut on Highland" - maybe they're planning to put the main residential entrance on walnut street

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBone7281

I haven't been that way in a long time, did they rename one of the streets to Walnut?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC

no - walnut capital bought the neighborhood

Yes, I'm aware of Walnut Capital... but you said Walnut Street.

Private Dick · #**11719** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:48 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Austinlee

As in many projects as the development moves forward costs rise and decisions can be made to use cheaper materials.
It happens to a majority of projects unfortunately.

Sure thing, and that is a direct failure of the architect.

If a design leads to a plan and the plan is to become a viable project, then it is incumbent upon the architect to make sure that his design is best represented by the finished work.

If you're designing for a specific space without realistic budget in mind, you're just drawing shapes on paper. I learned that from someone at Perkins+Will.

BrianTH · #**11720** Posted **Mar 5, 2015, 7:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVC

you are free to reject any notion you like but anyone who has graduated from architecture school or elementary school for that matter will tell you a building needs to have a front door main entrance that faces the street

That entrance is going to be at the corner of Penn and Highland. To see a historic example of another building like that, you'll just have to turn around.

Or go down the block.