PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Yes, they are worse in terms of sustainability initiatives.

I was looking more for a specific comparison between Dollar Tree (not dollar stores in general) and Walmart/Target.

I just think that there are plenty of nearby existing places already to buy low-end stuff like bleach and batteries.

Again holding aside your sustainability concerns, competition seems good.

I'm sure lots of people would be equally or more upset if, say Walmart moved into East Liberty. But personally, IF they were willing to do a nice urban-format version, then I would see that as a good thing for East Liberty, in part precisely because they would then compete with Target. And as the research I posted indicates, that is a big part of what dollar stores do these days (compete with stores like Walmart and Target).

I'd just much rather see Pittsburgh develop a "corner bodega" culture in its revitalizing urban neighborhoods like is seen in our big brothers to the east.

It seems to me "bodegas" these days are just very small convenience stores with relatively high prices, the economics of which are driven by being located in very high population density and very high rent areas. From a consumer perspective I don't see anything in particular to like about them, and I don't think East Liberty is going to approach those economic conditions for a long time to come.

Meanwhile, there are larger urban-format convenience stores all over the place in relatively dense, relatively thriving U.S. cities, including some of our big brothers to the East, so it is not like we are breaking new ground here. In short, I'm thinking more DC than Manhattan for East Liberty. And even Manhattan may not be a bodega place in the future either:

http://ny.curbed.com/archives/2012/03/16...ght_of_the_new_york_city_bodega.php#more

In any event, I can't imagine the future of East Liberty actually depends on whether a new convenience store is 9500 sgft (like this one) or something a bit smaller like the typical bodega.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

grand - not necessarily

a front door - absolutey

Then I would again point out it looks like there is in fact a door now on Penn.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

remind me of a jaw-dropping project by those guys please... serious question. Everything I've seen so far is incredibly bland and uninspired.

My wife works for them, so I'd like to defend them. I've honestly not been blown away by much of their work. Part of it is they've sort of slotted themselves into being a firm which does a lot of senior facilities, which don't allow for quite the same levels of high design.

I think Federal Hill was actually pretty damn well done though. They managed to do infill townhouses in a historic area correctly - not attempting to make it 100% historic, but calling out the forms and proportions of the vernacular of the area. The numbering is awful on them, but that was the choice of the builder, not them. Still, overall, I'd rate it as one of the best contextual infill examples in Pittsburgh. Apparently they were constantly fighting with the builders to get it as right as they did.

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Then I would again point out it looks like there is in fact a door now on Penn.

a side door is not a front door

and having a back door, dark alley entrance to a building on a prominent corner of two major streets is nothing short of insane

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

a side door is not a front door

Penn isn't the front? I'm honestly not sure what you are looking for here.

and having a back door, dark alley entrance to a building on a prominent corner of two major streets is nothing short of insane

I assume the corner will be a retail entrance, which makes sense since the retail establishment would benefit the most from that.

Meanwhile, an apartment door on Penn and another door just off Highland would seem pretty reasonable to me, but I don't actually know what they are doing on Highland now--that entrance off Highland was where the facade materials were originally going, so maybe all that has been scrapped or redesigned.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I was looking more for a specific comparison between Dollar Tree (not dollar stores in general) and Walmart/Target.

I'm sure you can find it, but this came out last month from Environmental Justice -- the toxics reporting issue comparison alone:




Obviously, we are not going to agree on dollar stores... you have a positive view of them, mine is decidedly negative.

[Evergrey]

another project for Lawrenceville

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/bl...rs-coming-to-lawrenceville.html?page=all

Chef-driven Burgh'ers coming to Lawrenceville

Mar 4, 2015, 2:47pm EST Updated: Mar 4, 2015, 4:10pm EST

Burgh'ers, a chef-driven burger restaurant that's built a strong following on the rural outskirts of Butler County, is heading for the city.

Fiore Moletz, the owner of Harmony-based restaurant, has reached a final agreement to lease a 3,000-square-foot space in a new redevelopment project at 36th and Butler streets in Lawrenceville.

The location is now the site of a single-story building formerly occupied by company called Goeller Generator that developer Tony Dolan and his Alphabet City Co. plan to redevelop into a new mixed-use project with 15 apartments and first floor retail space.

Dolan couldn't be reached for comment. Moletz said he hopes to be in the building and open for business by March 2016, a time frame dependent on the construction schedule for the new project.

The lease ends a nearly five-year quest to establish a second location for Burgh'ers in Lawrenceville by Moletz, a chef who has worked at Lidia's Pittsburgh and Il Pizzaiolo, and also operates an Italian restaurant called Della Terra in Harmony.

"I love Lawrenceville. I love everything about it," said Moletz, who grew up across the river in Shaler. "The main thing I like about it are the people it attracts."

He plans to open an 80-seat restaurant with a bar that includes a focus on craft beers and cocktails as a complement to Burgher's farm-to-table approach to hamburgers, with the menu also supplemented with items such as fried chicken, line-caught seafood and others.

...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

another project for Lawrenceville

Can't say I'm happy about a burger place, but I am happy that yet another gap in the street wall is closing down the hill.

At this point the pressure on the Catholic Diocese to sell off some of the Saint Augustine campus must be getting high. Not counting the senior complex (which ain't moving) they occupy the entire north side of the 3600 block of Butler, along with two ancillary parking lots.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Obviously, we are not going to agree on dollar stores... you have a positive view of them, mine is decidedly negative.

Actually, that was really helpful. I was honestly asking for information like that.

Edit: I gather this is the report:

http://ejforall.org/assets/media/documents/Report_ADayLateAndADollarShort.pdf

Very interesting, but I would also be interested to see what would happen if you did a similar product test at Walmart and Target.

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Can't say I'm happy about a burger place, but I am happy that yet another gap in the street wall is closing down the hill.

At this point the pressure on the Catholic Diocese to sell off some of the Saint Augustine campus must be getting high. Not counting the senior complex (which ain't moving) they occupy the entire north side of the 3600 block of Butler, along with two ancillary parking lots.

Pretty sure that the Diocese does not own any of the property. St Augustine is the motherhouse of the eastern region of Capuchins. I assume that the order owns the property.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Actually, that was really helpful. I was honestly asking for information like that.

Edit: I gather this is the report:

http://ejforall.org/assets/media/documents/Report_ADayLateAndADollarShort.pdf

Very interesting, but I would also be interested to see what would happen if you did a similar product test at Walmart and Target.

I do know that product tests and studies were done at Wal-Mart and Target over a decade ago... and those prompted both retail giants to take a much closer look at the origins and compositions of the products lining their shelves and "clean up their act", so hopefully this latest report on dollar store products will have a similar effect (if they are to remain viable components of or retail mix... which I will have to begrudgingly accept I guess). Though I do know that toxic products at wal mart and Target do still pop up now and then.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Gilamonster

Despite the presence of Dollar Tree in our city, we still pulled this off:

http://livability.com/top-10/downtowns/top-10-best-downtowns/2015/pennsylvania/pittsburgh

I'm pleased to see we beat out Fargo.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Can't say I'm happy about a burger place, but I am happy that yet another gap in the street wall is closing down the hill.

You should be happy! Burgh'ers is really amazing stuff. Fits right in with all the rest of the restaurants that have opened around there. Top notch cocktail program included. They do plenty of non-burger items if you must but IMO their burger beats the other typical best burgers in town. I know, I'm thinking I remember you are vegetarian? Ah well. I think you'd still find something. The guy Moletz knows his food.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by DKNewYork

Pretty sure that the Diocese does not own any of the property. St Augustine is the motherhouse of the eastern region of Capuchins. I assume that the order owns the property.

Doh! You're right. Still, the point remains that they're sitting on prime property. At minimum they should develop their surface lot on Butler Street, and pour the proceeds into turning their other lot on 37th into a parking garage.

Originally Posted by greg42

You should be happy! Burgh'ers is really amazing stuff. Fits right in with all the rest of the restaurants that have opened around there. Top notch cocktail program included. They do plenty of non-burger items if you must but IMO their burger beats the other typical best burgers in town.

I meant because I am a vegan I can't be too excited about a burger place going in. As I said though, it's nice to see another gap in the street wall closing.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

No, it's just that Dollar Tree and its ilk are absolute shit.

I don't care who shops there or who doesn't. I despise the horrendously consumptive, wasteful business model that relies on a horrendously consumptive, wasteful supply chain. I hate that many products (40-50% Chinese origin) STILL sold in these stores do not meet US Federal safety standards... toys, medicines, cleaning supplies, pet supplies, vitamins, food, jewelry, cosmetics, electronics, and don't forget the packaging that many of these "great deals" come in. Who doesn't love a little extra cadmium? And kids sure do love those toxic pthalates in their plastic toys! What kid wouldn't!?

They peddle throw-away (and often toxic) products and only further contribute to a culture of wasteful consumption. So sorry if I'm not a big fan and display "concern" about these stores.

This is to say nothing about my feelings on dollar stores from an urban planning/design and revitalization perspective.

Finally. It took a long time in that discussion to get to the real answer of why as someone else pointed out "everything is wrong with Dollar Tree".

I suppose I ultimately have to accept that Dollar Tree will continue to exist for now, and I don't have a particular problem with where it locates. So in terms of what is in E Liberty, eh, whatever. I know it draws from various socioeconomic backgrounds. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. I, too, find Walmart to be a better option. I actually hold my nose and buy at least one thing in there, a jug of oil for my car. The worst thing about Walmart to me is how it feels in the store, the lighting, the layout, it is just awful to me in a way I don't find I. most other stores. Walmart cares nothing for such detail, but even it serves a purpose for me now. There's nothing redeeming to me personally about Dollar Tree so I haven't gone back there.

BTW just because different outlets carry the same brands doesn't mean it's the same quality level of said brand. Items have often been cheapened to meet Walmart price targets for example. I suspect it is similar for Dollar Tree. But what I most remember is all the stuff my dollar store shopping coworkers used to bring in to work. It was the worst throwaway junk, often failing quickly, and for some items just a little more money at a different store gets something significantly less useless.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I meant because I am a vegan I can't be too excited about a burger place going in. As I said though, it's nice to see another gap in the street wall closing.

Made an edit right at same time. I did in fact remember that about you, tho not specifically vegan. It's probably not ideal but typically he comes up with something. Anyway, in general it is good even if it won't be your new fav hangout. And no I won't hold Dollar Tree in the same regard. ;-)

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by JVC

those blue and rust colored panels look even more awful when the rendering is enlarged

at this point it's safe to say this building is going to be the worst thing to happen to east liberty since the 1970's urban renewal

aside from the fact that the design looks like something out of soviet russia and doesn't even attempt to fit into the architecture of the area,
the building doesn't even have a front door

instead residents are going to be forced to enter the building through a back door in a dark alley that is currently known as antler way

society has lost its mind

Alarmist much?
And btw, soviet Russia and East Liberty look quite similar. Run down apartment blocks; Cratered streets and mis-matched architecture styles. Good call!

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

I'm pleased to see we beat out Fargo.

From the article:

The population of downtown Pittsburgh doubles during the day...

...More than 8,000 people live in downtown Pittsburgh

I didn't realize downtown swelled to SIXTEEN THOUSAND people during the day.

[Jonboy1983]

You know what I don't get? That article says 8k people live Downtown. Try telling that to the US Census Bureau. They seem to think that only ~3,500 live there. Come to think of it, I disagree with the Census. Sure, the prison population did skew the population upward, but the jail moved in 1995; not 2005; not last year...

Also, I thought the Downtown population soared to 100k during the day...

So yeah, I only buy part of that article...

[DKNewYork]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Doh! You're right. Still, the point remains that they're sitting on prime property. At minimum they should develop their surface lot on Butler Street, and pour the proceeds into turning their other lot on 37th into a parking garage.

Agreed. I should have added earlier that Capuchin ownership doesn't negate your point. The order could be as likely to feel pressure to sell or be curious to monetize the property as the diocese, maybe more. The order could sell or develop...