PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[JVC]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I have no idea, but I bet if you polled people in the Pittsburgh region, or maybe even just the City, a majority would report that East Liberty is still a gang-infested war zone where you have to dodge bullets just to get to your crack dealer on the corner.

And that is because many people are ignorant idiots who never leave their personal bubbles, never change opinions they formed 30 years ago, and have no idea how much things are changing in various neighborhoods.

that could be true but a developer has to be mindful of what "many people" think and believe

Originally Posted by BrianTH

However, Home Depot, Whole Foods, Trader Joe's, Target, Walnut Capital, Ace Hotel, Hotel Indigo, and so on don't need a majority of the City or the region to be participants in their markets.

the hotel indigo is at least a few months away from opening so the success of that project is impossible to judge right now - same goes for the ace hotel

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

Design for new U.S. Steel headquarters honors Pittsburgh’s industrial past
March 3, 2015 12:00 AM

The building itself will be made largely of steel and glass with wood and brick accents. The steel and glass are a nod to Pittsburgh’s past as a center for steel and glass manufacturing, Mr. McKee said.

And the wood and brick accents are budget decisions.

Clayco is seeking an LEED silver designation for the development.

LEED Silver is nothing to be too proud of at all... especially not for a 5-story corporate HQ of a major international company.

From a sustainability standpoint, the goal is to make the headquarters an “example of how a building integrates itself with the site and corresponding developments,” Clayco said.

LEED Silver ensures a middling example of that, at best.


What a bad joke this thing is...

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

The building itself will be made largely of steel and glass with wood and brick accents. The steel and glass are a nod to Pittsburgh’s past as a center for steel and glass manufacturing, Mr. McKee said.

And the wood and brick accents are budget decisions.

Clayco is seeking an LEED silver designation for the development.

LEED Silver is nothing to be too proud of at all... especially not for a 5-story corporate HQ of a major international company.

From a sustainability standpoint, the goal is to make the headquarters an “example of how a building integrates itself with the site and corresponding developments,” Clayco said.

LEED Silver ensures a middling example of that, at best.


What a bad joke this thing is...

Agreed. US Steel is pathetic.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by JVC

that could be true but a developer has to be mindful of what "many people" think and believe

Not really, at least not in the broad-based polling sense.

A developer needs to understand the potential market for their project, how much competition there might be in that market already, and how much more competition might be coming along soon. But their potential market doesn't have to be big in relation to something like a city or a region. It just has to be big enough, relative to the total anticipated competition in that market, to provide enough of a market opportunity for that specific project.

In that sense, many developments end up targeting what could be classified as a "niche" market once you are looking at things from a city-wide or region-wide scale. But a niche market as such can still have thousands or tens of thousands of people in it, which can be more than enough to make a project a success.

That's a large part of why lots of long-standing Pittsburgh observers keep getting it wrong when predicting the failure of higher-end projects in lower-end/transitional neighborhoods. They can't imagine anyone who can afford over $1000/month in rent wanting to live in Uptown, or East Liberty, or so on. And that may well be true of 70%, 80%, 90%, or more of higher-income people in the region. But those percentages per se don't matter, because all a developer needs is enough people who think differently.

Bringing it back to the topic at hand, there is clearly a significant segment of higher-income people who are more than willing to run out and buy bleach or batteries at a dollar store if that is a convenient option. Other higher-income people may not dream of it--but those are the higher-income people who probably wouldn't dream of renting an apartment in East Liberty either. So once you have applied that filter (higher-income AND willing to rent in East Liberty), I'll bet that you have already selected mostly for the same sort of higher-income people who also buy batteries in dollar stores.

the hotel indigo is at least a few months away from opening so the success of that project is impossible to judge right now - same goes for the ace hotel

Correct, but I was just making a point about market strategies. Lots of people visiting the region may not be willing to stay in a hotel any closer to an urban environment than Greentree. But the Ace Hotel and Hotel Indigo don't need to worry about those people. They just need to have enough of a market to fill their rooms, and again that can be a niche market from a city or regional perspective and still be plenty big enough for them.

[Private Dick]

I was in East Liberty the other day and grabbed a coffee at the new Zeke's location on Penn. I was so happy that a big Dollar Tree store had opened up next door! I popped in for a box of mac and cheese, a 6-pack of bottled water, a couple ice cube trays, and a plastic St. Patrick's Day hat -- 5 bucks!!!!!

So cool... no wonder Ace Hotel and Hotel Indigo decided to locate where they did!

[BrianTH]

I'd take LEED Silver if it was 10-12 stories.

[Private Dick]

I'd love to see an urban IHOP in East Liberty! Maybe right next door to the Ace?? People staying at hotels need breakfast, right? And what says good breakfast for out of towners better than IHOP??

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Minivan Werner

The new renderings of the US Steel HQ look better than the first ones although the differences are slight. It's still at least 5 floors too short.

I'm really digging the exposed corten steel framing. That is alot of glass as well. The wood and stone accents should compliment the building as well. The new Google building @ Bakery Square is about the same height and makes a huge impact on the corner of East Liberty Blvd and Penn Ave. I hoped for a taller building but am satisfied with this low rise. I hope we can compliment the building by adding interesting looking mid and highrise buildings. I would love something similar to the Barcode development in Oslo.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

The new Google building @ Bakery Square is about the same height and makes a huge impact on the corner of East Liberty Blvd and Penn Ave.

Yes it does -- on the corner of E Liberty Blvd and Penn Ave.

A bit of different location and context than adjacent to downtown, no?

[chiaroscuro]

Looking at Perkins+Will's work... Almono could be awesome.

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I'd love to see an urban IHOP in East Liberty! Maybe right next door to the Ace?? People staying at hotels need breakfast, right? And what says good breakfast for out of towners better than IHOP??

Is this some sort of guerrilla advertising for their free pancake promotion in honor of National Pancake Day today?

[JVC]

penn-highland building update:
construction fence has been delivered to the site
demolition is likely to begin shortly

let's hope the historic facades remain in place

[eschaton]

My biggest concern about Almono remains the "signature boulevard" which is planned through the development. This will split off just pass the Hot Metal Bridge, and sort of peter off somewhere around the intersection with Blair Street in the "Scotch Bottom/Hazelwood Flats" area.

The reason I find this dangerous is it basically creates a secondary bypass for the majority of Second Avenue (everything north of West Elizabeth Street, which contains everything technically zoned commercial). This will decrease road traffic along the corridor, which in some sense can be considered a good thing. However, past experience with traffic engineering nationwide has generally shown that bypasses do not help commercial districts - they weaken them.

Thus, I am concerned that besides the existing (largely intact) residential area on the same side of the tracks, Almono won't really do that much to help Hazelwood. It might be more well-designed than the Waterfront, but it will end up feeling almost as isolated.

[Private Dick]

Originally Posted by Evergrey

Is this some sort of guerrilla advertising for their free pancake promotion in honor of National Pancake Day today?

You found me out! I've been an ihop plant on this forum for 3 years now, subliminally infiltrating your thoughts with my sarcastic, over the top comments... little did you know that it's been subliminally all about pancakes.

...

Wow... I actually had no idea, but I know where I'm going for lunch.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Yes it does -- on the corner of E Liberty Blvd and Penn Ave. A bit of different location and context than adjacent to downtown, no?

Exactly.

And in fact the Bakery Square building is in fact taller, by at least a full story (a non-trivial difference when you are starting at 5 stories).

I don't think it is too much to ask that the expansion of Downtown into the Lower Hill be higher, not lower, than BKSQ.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I'd love to see an urban IHOP in East Liberty! Maybe right next door to the Ace?? People staying at hotels need breakfast, right? And what says good breakfast for out of towners better than IHOP??

Sure, places to buy batteries are just like restaurants. Higher-income people are surely only to be interested in carefully-curated selections of artisanal, locally-produced AAA batteries. We must ban Dollar Tree . . . and CVS . . . and Target . . . our beloved young professionals should never have to sully their noble eyes with the sight of competitively-priced goods and services!!!

Come to think of it, better tear up the East Busway too.

[BrianTH]

So Wolf wants to use proceeds from a new natural gas severance tax, raising and broadening the sales tax, and an increased personal income tax to, among other things, reduce local school district property taxes:

http://www.post-gazette.com/news/state/2...a-budget-Harrisburg/stories/201503030168

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...ease-in-funding-for-public.html?page=all

This would be amazingly helpful for areas like Wilkinsburg (where I live) that are being held back in part by very high school taxes. It will surely also be opposed by many, and of course Republicans control the state legislature. But you never know with this sort of thing--there are enough rural and suburban areas with school financing/tax issues but no real direct stake in natural gas extraction, such that you might actually see a lot of Republican representatives of those areas being willing to play ball.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

Yes it does -- on the corner of E Liberty Blvd and Penn Ave.

A bit of different location and context than adjacent to downtown, no?

The former arena site is huge. I never assumed that all development on the site would be towering skyscrapers. The US Steel headquarters can exist with towers in the future. I think the new US Steel headquarters will be the catalyst for development in the Lower Hill. Would I prefer a 500 footer? Hell yes. Do I prefer a steel and glass corporate headquarters over a sloped ashphalt parking lot? You bet.

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by Private Dick

I'd love to see an urban IHOP in East Liberty! Maybe right next door to the Ace?? People staying at hotels need breakfast, right? And what says good breakfast for out of towners better than IHOP??

Am I the only person that hates IHOP? Its gross to me and I would prefer a local mom and pop breakfast joint.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I think the new US Steel headquarters will be the catalyst for development in the Lower Hill. . . . Do I prefer a steel and glass corporate headquarters over a sloped ashphalt parking lot? You bet.

But there is no strong evidence those are the only two options.

This is one of the many problems with just handing out development rights to politically-favored entities like the Penguins. If this parcel had actually gone out to bid and this was the highest-bidding project, then OK, so be it. But we didn't do that, and so there is no way of knowing what would actually be possible.

And the sad state of the North Shore should make us seriously skeptical about whether this is really going to be a catalyst for doing better in the future in a sports-team-controlled development. Specifically, the latest North Shore project, North Shore Place I and II, was actually way worse than the earliest ones. And this is to be expected--when the whole development process is insulated from normal market pressures due to the lack of competitive bidding, there is no obvious mechanism for market changes, whether driven by external forces or the development itself, to positively influence the course of development.

That said, I doubt there is anything we can actually do about this other than cross our fingers and hope it turns out better this time. But it is a huge red flag that the Penguins' Lower Hill development is starting out the same way as the North Shore--with a minimal project being done on the cheap.