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  #2881  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 4:53 PM
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Originally Posted by DownhomeDenver View Post
Oh hey...lookie lookie

2015M00024 - 2014D00087 - 1144 15th St - 1144 Fifteenth - New Mixed Use Office Tower
Denver needs this tower, it will be the first in a long while that gets mostly away from Colotecture and the Denver box (though the base is still Colotecture and boxy I guess).
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  #2882  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 5:12 PM
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Colorado is not Arizona. You do not need a tax payer financed hotel in aurora when you already have a tax payer financed convention center in Denver. It was a ridiculous decision to have tax payers finance two projects that will ultimately compete with one another for revenue.
Why? We have taxpayer financed performing arts centers that compete with each other for patrons, colleges that compete with each other for students, etc. Competition ultimately breeds innovation and investment. If it wasn't for the Gaylord threat, we wouldn't be seeing the City of Denver getting ready to make an enormous investment in the Stock Show, an expansion to the Convention Center, and (probably) another full-service convention hotel.

Aurora ultimately gets little benefit from the Convention Center because it's not like attendees are heading to Aurora for either lodging or entertainment, though it's not as if Aurora taxpayers are subsidizing the Convention Center either (asides from a bit of state-money that went to the Convention Center expansion). If Aurora wants to end up financing the entire project, because it's increasingly looking like the private route may not be able to do so, they can also do that.

That said, I love the amount of drama and the trouble this project has had and ultimately hope to see it fail to start because I think it's a terrible project.
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  #2883  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 5:29 PM
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Originally Posted by DenverInfill View Post
From a land use planning perspective, Gaylord is a disaster. Plunking a $800 million hotel and conference center in the middle of nowhere, tantalizingly close to a transit line yet not close enough so that 100% of everyone--employees and visitors--will drive there, is ridiculous.
Haha... all very good points, especially given the perspective you come from. But with respect to Gaylord I come wearing a different hat than my Urban hat.

Whether the "distributed urban architecture - the optimum for efficient movement of people, as it minimizes congestion and the need for high density transit".... or maybe more accurately with respect to Phoenix the "Village Plan system which plans for several nodes of higher density and employment concentrations" has merit is not a debate that I'm smart enough to have. I know my preference.

So I guess you would suggest that Denver would never be caught dead backing/putting up a say 500+ room Hotel and Convention Center (as 7News recently reported) way out there? Would Westin Hotels ever be interested in such a venture? And if DIA is your excuse I'd offer that is precisely what Gaylord finds attractive.

Just by way of comparison, the site that Gaylord chose in Phoenix/Mesa is more easterly than DIA. While they wouldn't be far from the rapidly growing Phoenix/Mesa Airport that facility is but a pimple in comparison to the access that DIA provides. While DMB Associates is the kind of long-time successful developer that adds comfort why would Gaylord want to go way out there in the first place? Simply because Gaylord has their own clientele/customer base that is looking for the Gaylord experience. Don't ask me why it just is the case.

Quote:
....but it doesn't mean the taxpayers have to subsidize them to the tune of almost $400 million. If the City of Aurora really was serious about building a sustainable city, they should put Gaylord on the huge undeveloped Aurora City Center site at Alameda and Sable across from the Aurora city government offices, the Aurora Mall, and a new LRT station. That would be an investment that makes some sense
First of all, I understand it's easy to get hung up on "almost $400 million" but that amount is spread over 30 years. The estimated economic benefits over 30 years are over $8 billion which could end up being significantly low over that kind of time period.

Why Aurora chose to create nearly $300 million in incentives is not a question that I can answer nor have an opinion on. I would agree with your points about Aurora City Center. Presumably Gaylord had no interest in that site.

As all should be aware I'm very big on the return on investment - Bang for the Buck - that convention and tourism business brings. I cringe at any lack of perspective that would shut out this kind of opportunity and benefit.

I will always contend that downtown Denver, as the financial/cultural/sports and soon transit hub will benefit as the whole region benefits and grows.
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  #2884  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 6:15 PM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
Gaylord will be very close to the East line is their a possibility a stop could be added in the future? That would actually make it an interesting option for travelers because you could take the train downtown for dinner/events and to/from DIA. No need for a rental car of taking cabs.
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Sure, if they pay for it. It was actually proposed to add a station here when there were rumblings about the Stock Show moving out here. But, while Gaylord is "very close" to the East Line, it's not like the facility is going to to be aligned in any such way that makes taking the train convenient. Plus, it's not in Gaylord's interest to make it convenient for patrons to head downtown, they want/need them to stay within the confines of the facility and to spend recreational dollars there.
Given the numbers projected for Gaylord I would guess that a significant number of people, perhaps the majority, will be visiting Denver for the first time. Surely a certain percentage will want to take in more of Denver and/or Colorado. That would be great spillover business.

Certainly Gaylord will have relatively good access to commuter rail. I would think it would be a nice opportunity for downtown hotels, especially those near to Union Station, to offer one/two night specials to those visitors.

Who knows the number of Gaylord staying site selectors for meetings that will want to learn more about downtown Denver? Who knows the number of first time visitors that will want to come back to Colorado, either to visit or even to hold a convention downtown?

Projecting out 20-30 years what will the Metro population be? Will it add another million people? two million?

I'd assume that DIA will never be more than a poor imitation to the economic development that DFW has generated. But there's no reason to believe that it can't develop out nicely and with good density.
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  #2885  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 6:58 PM
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Anyone remember in what plan there was a little language/map of a 17th St. Subway (bus)?
     
     
  #2886  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 7:08 PM
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Anyone remember in what plan there was a little language/map of a 17th St. Subway (bus)?
That would have been amazing yesterday
     
     
  #2887  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 7:20 PM
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Anyone remember in what plan there was a little language/map of a 17th St. Subway (bus)?
From 70s/80s/90s I believe.
     
     
  #2888  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 7:34 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Given the numbers projected for Gaylord I would guess that a significant number of people, perhaps the majority, will be visiting Denver for the first time. Surely a certain percentage will want to take in more of Denver and/or Colorado. That would be great spillover business.

Certainly Gaylord will have relatively good access to commuter rail. I would think it would be a nice opportunity for downtown hotels, especially those near to Union Station, to offer one/two night specials to those visitors.

Who knows the number of Gaylord staying site selectors for meetings that will want to learn more about downtown Denver? Who knows the number of first time visitors that will want to come back to Colorado, either to visit or even to hold a convention downtown?
Once again, you are assuming that Gaylord wants people to spend a night away from their all-inclusive hotel and package deals; that's not the case. The facility is meant to be an enticing prison: guest check-in and stay there. Keeping people at the hotel, eating at the hotel, being entertained at the hotel, and banging hotel-provided hookers at the hotel is the way that Gaylord's model works. Sure, Gaylord might have a shuttle-bus that departs once every couple hours to make the two-mile journey to the nearest commuter rail station, but do you really think that they will encourage it even the slightest bit?
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  #2889  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
That said, I love the amount of drama and the trouble this project has had...
Yeah me too. I couldn't help but grin a little with Ed Sealover's coverage of Aurora's rapid response.
Quote:
Aurora Mayor Steve Hogan sent a letter to Stapleton late Monday telling him that the issues that he is raising already have been "discredited" and have been debated and litigated already for years by officials connected more directly to them.

"What is concerning to me is that your letter seems not only politically motivated but ill-informed," Hogan wrote. "Why is the State Treasurer's office taking a stand against competition by siding with this small group of hoteliers? It seems an inappropriate role for the Office of the State Treasurer to involve itself in a commercial dispute that is before the courts."
I would agree with Mayor Hogan of course. Not because of the specific project here but because my view reflects regionalism rather than localism. As soon as I read that a state official wanted to muddy the water... who apparently has political ambitions and presumably wasn't involved in the original process nor seems to understand it... it had stink all over to me.

So far as the difficulty the project has had I couldn't help but consider that if Gaylord had pursued both expansion sites that they could be up and running, making money in Phoenix/Mesa by now. Going forward Arizona is very much open for business and has affordability on its side.

Perhaps there is merit in playing "hard to get" but I'm not sure regionally it's the best long term strategy. Utah is also aggressive. Thankfully Colorado has a business promoting Governor.
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  #2890  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Once again, you are assuming that Gaylord wants people to spend a night away from their all-inclusive hotel and package deals; that's not the case. The facility is meant to be an enticing prison: guest check-in and stay there. Keeping people at the hotel, eating at the hotel, being entertained at the hotel, and banging hotel-provided hookers at the hotel is the way that Gaylord's model works. Sure, Gaylord might have a shuttle-bus that departs once every couple hours to make the two-mile journey to the nearest commuter rail station, but do you really think that they will encourage it even the slightest bit?
No I understand your thinking and wouldn't disagree (although I have no experience with their hookers); whether it's quite that "punitive" I'm not sure. But I'm thinking about the visitor/guests, not what Gaylord may prefer. You're not suggesting that Gaylord issues shackles are you?
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  #2891  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
No I understand your thinking and wouldn't disagree (although I have no experience with their hookers); whether it's quite that "punitive" I'm not sure. But I'm thinking about the visitor/guests, not what Gaylord may prefer. You're not suggesting that Gaylord issues shackles are you?
Yes, the shackles of consumer choice incentives and disincentives. Everything that Gaylord will do, from facility design to transportation options, "Sorry sir, we only have a shuttle that goes to the airport, not downtown." will be structured to make a hotel patron not want to take the extra effort to get out of the facility and to instead partake of the onsite services. Granted, most businesses are trying to do this, but Gaylord, like any all-inclusive resort model, is particularly wedded to this concept.
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  #2892  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 8:59 PM
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Which is why it's hard to support this project from a regionalists perspective.
     
     
  #2893  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 9:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Yes, the shackles of consumer choice incentives and disincentives. Everything that Gaylord will do, from facility design to transportation options, "Sorry sir, we only have a shuttle that goes to the airport, not downtown." will be structured to make a hotel patron not want to take the extra effort to get out of the facility and to instead partake of the onsite services. Granted, most businesses are trying to do this, but Gaylord, like any all-inclusive resort model, is particularly wedded to this concept.
Well I think outside the box.

Not familiar but I assume Gaylord has a smorgasbord of options that they work from with prospects. I did assume that no complimentary shuttle service would be provided by the hotel other than to DIA. But just as DIA has private shuttle service I'd guess that some bright young entrepreneur could do the same with Gaylord. And there's always Uber.

I was more interested in the week before, but more likely the days or week after their event. Downtown could even offer 3-day tour specials and send out a w-h-o-l-e tour bus.

I understand that probably most attendees might prefer Rocky Mountain National Park or Vail/Breckenridge to downtown Denver but it's all good. They might leave Colorado wanting to come back, possibly even for more conventions and check into downtown options later. Either which way it's all good. They might leave Colorado wondering about business opportunities or even moving to Colorado.

The whole purpose of marketing and exposure is that you never can predict which arrows will strike a target but the larger the promotion the higher in numbers the response. It only takes a couple of great hits or many little ones to be worthwhile.

injoy13... I would totally disagree.
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  #2894  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 9:47 PM
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Nice to see - Union Station luring a Fortune 500 company out of the burbs -

From the Denver Business Journal

Liberty Global relocating headquarters to downtown Denver
Feb 26, 2015, 1:58pm MST Updated: Feb 26, 2015, 2:01pm MST

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/r...relocating-headquarters-to-downtown.html
     
     
  #2895  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by enjo13 View Post
Which is why it's hard to support this project from a regionalists perspective.
Welcome to the Gaylord of the Rockies. Your release date will be in two days at which time we will put you on a shuttle back to the airport. Guests are not permitted to leave hotel grounds during their stay. Please note the guard towers surrounding the hotel and the roving patrols. Please enjoy your say.

Resorts like Gaylord take the Vegas approach. They do not want you to leave the hotel and do everything within their power to make sure guests spend all their money on property.
     
     
  #2896  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 9:58 PM
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Nice to see - Union Station luring a Fortune 500 company out of the burbs -

From the Denver Business Journal

Liberty Global relocating headquarters to downtown Denver
Feb 26, 2015, 1:58pm MST Updated: Feb 26, 2015, 2:01pm MST

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/r...relocating-headquarters-to-downtown.html
Solid week for CBD commercial real estate. 200,000 sqf of absorption. Anyone know the vacancy rate at 1801 California following the Transamerica announcement?
     
     
  #2897  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by CPVLIVE View Post
Nice to see - Union Station luring a Fortune 500 company out of the burbs -

From the Denver Business Journal

Liberty Global relocating headquarters to downtown Denver
Feb 26, 2015, 1:58pm MST Updated: Feb 26, 2015, 2:01pm MST

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/blog/r...relocating-headquarters-to-downtown.html

per memegenerator.net

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denver View Post
Solid week for CBD commercial real estate. 200,000 sqf of absorption. Anyone know the vacancy rate at 1801 California following the Transamerica announcement?
Good question. Certainly it's moving in the right direction. Per Molly Armbrister's DBJ story of December 18th:
Quote:
Molson Coors Brewing Co. will relocate its U.S. headquarters next year to Denver's second-tallest building: 1801 California.

The company (NYSE: TAP) has leased 53,872 square feet in the 54-story tower at 1801 California St.
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  #2898  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 11:15 PM
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Anybody and everybody is welcome to agree or disagree with my new RANT on the Front Range Thread.
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  #2899  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Denver View Post
Solid week for CBD commercial real estate. 200,000 sqf of absorption. Anyone know the vacancy rate at 1801 California following the Transamerica announcement?


No idea. But, at least from earlier this week, a best guess from a Google search.
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Last edited by seventwenty; Feb 26, 2015 at 11:58 PM.
     
     
  #2900  
Old Posted Feb 26, 2015, 11:58 PM
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If the Gaylord hotel causes half as much actual sprawl as it's caused posting sprawl there's reason alone to hope it fails.
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