Millennium Line - Evergreen Extension | Completed

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

From the very beginning, I felt Port Moody was best suited to an elevated station, with easy access to WCE under the SkyTrain. Plus, elevation of the new tracks would have meshed well with the need to hop over the CPR in that area.

I do disagree with that. Think of the cross section. If the track was elevated above the CPR line, to access the platform you would have to go over top of both the CPR tracks and the Evergreen Line tracks. That would be a very substantial height to overcome and having the tracks elevated add to the barrier that the CPR tracks already create. Being at grade allows for the barrier to minimized given the existing circumstances.

[officedweller]

As-built at Port Moody, I think there's always and up and down transfer between WCE and SkyTrain, so functionally, an elevated SkyTrain would just mean going up or down to transfer since you could walk under the elevated guideway to access the WCE platform. However, in the as-built, for eastbound passengers, access to the outside, at-grade platform would be direct and easy.

If the guideway were to be elevated, the existing road overpass (Moody St?) near the station would probably have meant an M-Line Kensington type solution, were the guideway would have been super-elevated to clear the road overpass (not ducking under it) before arriving at the station.

An elevated guideway alone would have been a tough sell for Port Moody - i.e. a visual (if not physical) barrier, plus a taller one would have been worse.

[officedweller]

North Road guideway from Evergreen Facebook:


https://www.facebook.com/evergreenline

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Location of the boring machine as of yesterday (Feb 25):

http://www.evergreenline.gov.bc.ca/documents/InformationSheets/150225_TunnelBoringMachine-Map.pdf

[Olden Retreiver]

No.
I was suggesting a Port Moody station elevated only high enough that WCE passengers could walk under it to get to their platform. The higher segment to cross the CPR would be farther east (but ideally not so far east as it has been built.)

My main concern has been passenger flow to and from WCE. Currently (or at least before construction disruption) 200+ passengers would get off the eastbound WCE and disperse through 3 main platform access gates within a minute. After Evergreen, these hundreds of people will have to line up for a escalator, cross an overhead walkway, and come down another escalator before trying to get out a single narrow station exit.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

No.
I was suggesting a Port Moody station elevated only high enough that WCE passengers could walk under it to get to their platform. The higher segment to cross the CPR would be farther east (but ideally not so far east as it has been built.)

My main concern has been passenger flow to and from WCE. Currently (or at least before construction disruption) 200+ passengers would get off the eastbound WCE and disperse through 3 main platform access gates within a minute. After Evergreen, these hundreds of people will have to line up for a escalator, cross an overhead walkway, and come down another escalator before trying to get out a single narrow station exit.

If they could double the number of escalators at each location - 2 up, 2 down, and, if possible widen the walkway, would that expedite things a bit?
And could there be any way of widening the station entrances?
What you describe is commuter crunch on a bad level.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

No.
I was suggesting a Port Moody station elevated only high enough that WCE passengers could walk under it to get to their platform.

You'd have a problem with the adjacent Moody St. overpass (in trying to keep the guideway low level) if the existing station location is kept.


https://www.facebook.com/evergreenline/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

[GeeCee]

The roof structure for Coquitlam Centre Station looked like it was going up a few days ago. Not sure how long it's been up for though. Surprising to see in person just how far away it is from the WCE station.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

The roof structure for Coquitlam Centre Station looked like it was going up a few days ago. Not sure how long it's been up for though. Surprising to see in person just how far away it is from the WCE station.

Time will tell but I wonder which people will prefer who are accessing the Evergreen line from WCE: Coquitlam Centre or Moody Centre Station. I suspect it would be the PoMo station since it does seem more convenient.

[st7860]

Originally Posted by SOSS

Time will tell but I wonder which people will prefer who are accessing the Evergreen line from WCE: Coquitlam Centre or Moody Centre Station. I suspect it would be the PoMo station since it does seem more convenient.

Pomo and Moody sound funny if you take them the right away...

[red-paladin]

The idea is that people would transfer at Pomo, because Coquitlam Central station is going to be busier anyway with all the bus transfers. Also, the guideway needs to be on that curve towards the north anyway, etc.

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by officedweller

You'd have a problem with the adjacent Moody St. overpass (in trying to keep the guideway low level) if the existing station location is kept.


https://www.facebook.com/evergreenline/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

The station is 200 m east of the underpass and the required elevation at the station would be about 5 metres, so the average grade up to an elevated station is less than 2 degrees.

The track could have been built slightly higher under Moody Street, so the required height gain would be even less.

Or if need be, the access to WCE platform could have been made slightly below what is now the newly established grade of the parking lot & bus bays. The grade here was raised quite a bit in the past 2 years, such that the WCE/CPR tracks are at least a metre below the Evergreen tracks.

[Olden Retreiver]

Originally Posted by officedweller

As-built at Port Moody, I think there's always and up and down transfer between WCE and SkyTrain, so functionally, an elevated SkyTrain would just mean going up or down to transfer since you could walk under the elevated guideway to access the WCE platform. However, in the as-built, for eastbound passengers, access to the outside, at-grade platform would be direct and easy.

Worse.
So far as I can tell, Port Moody is being built as a centre-platform station, such that each and every passenger will have to go up, over, and down to get to or from ANY train.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

Worse.
So far as I can tell, Port Moody is being built as a centre-platform station, such that each and every passenger will have to go up, over, and down to get to or from ANY train.

Wouldn't it be more passenger friendly to go UNDER the platforms? Escalators and stairs down to a tunnel passerelle, then up to the WCE platforms?
At least that's usually how they do it in the UK and Europe.
It all boils down to a question of $$$ of course.

[queetz@home]

I just got an email saying that they are scheduled to disassemble the gantry crane at the week of March 2. I haven't had the opportunity to drive at Pinetree Way but does this mean they have completed the guideway already?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Olden Retreiver

Worse.
So far as I can tell, Port Moody is being built as a centre-platform station, such that each and every passenger will have to go up, over, and down to get to or from ANY train.

Yeah, you're right.


https://www.facebook.com/evergreenline/photos_stream?ref=page_internal

The lack of a cross platform transfer and funnelling passengers probably has something to do with tapping off WCE and going through SkyTrain faregates.

****

If it's feasible to have the guideway pass under Moody St. to a slightly elevated station, it was probably Port Moody that nixed that possibility due to view blockage.

[Olden Retreiver]

I don't think it was nixed - it was never proposed (except by me.)

The whole line through Port Moody was simply presented as "at grade," following very early (~2002-2004) community consultation. Except of course for the elevated section by Klahanie that no one seemed to know about until it was built. Wouldn't it be better for everyone if the necessary elevated section were closer to the station, where any visual barrier would soon enough be replaced by a cluster of new mid- to high-rise buildings?

[officedweller]

Port Moody has always been concerned about view blockage - since 2001 right from the portal:

http://www.translink.ca/en/About-Us/Medi...t-of-the-Decision-Process-TransLink.aspx

Port Moody's 32 Evergreen Line requirements:

http://www.portmoody.ca/index.aspx?page=402

2. Be constructed at grade along the southern alignment of the Canadian Pacific Rail Right of Way.

Maybe this is why - for a future connection to the north?

7. Include a station within one block of Queens Street and one station located within close proximity to Moray Street. Each station should include a pedestrian overpass allowing pedestrian connections over the rail line. The two stations must be fully accessible. The western station should be designed in a heritage style and incorporate heritage elements.
28. A pedestrian overpass over the CPR right-of-way should be provided at each station, if not already in place.

16. The guideway should remain at grade or below grade through Port Moody.
17. At grade means at or below the existing grade of Clarke Street and at or below the existing grade of Murray Street.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by queetz@home

I just got an email saying that they are scheduled to disassemble the gantry crane at the week of March 2. I haven't had the opportunity to drive at Pinetree Way but does this mean they have completed the guideway already?

Not sure how they would complete the guideway without using the gantry crane.

[Kwik-E-Mart]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Not sure how they would complete the guideway without using the gantry crane.

Drove by a few hours ago. There are only two sections left, so there shouldn't be any problems getting it done within 7 days.