Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada

[ciudad_del_norte]

I find things like this seem silly if you can say it, but it doesn't suprise me that some people might actually have trouble.

A ciziten of Mexico City would probably think its strange if you struggle with the T+L of "Tlalnepantla". And it may seem odd to us that it might take some practice for them to not add an e to the beggining of words that start with an s followed by a consonant (eg. straight, not estraight) etc.

[SignalHillHiker]

What languages we learn as children even impact how we hear. All of the various "ch" sounds in Slavic languages usually sound identical to English speakers but are audibly different to native speakers. So if we can't even hear the difference we've no hope of pronouncing it correctly.

[1overcosc]

Yep. Japanese people literally can't hear the difference between "r" and "l". "Ran" and "Lan" sound exactly the same to them.

What's cool is that many of these sound differences we can't hear that we think don't exist actually do exist in our language at the unconscious level. For example, English has two acoustically distinct "n" sounds. Native anglophones, say "one book" and then say "one thing". If you pay close attention to your tongue as you say them, you'll notice that when you say the "n" in "one thing", your tongue makes contact directly with your teeth, whereas when you say the "n" in "one book", it doesn't. This is the distinction between the 'dental n' and the 'alveolar n'. In most dialects of English the dental n occurs only when the n is preceded by certain types of sounds, for example "th". So the two sounds do have distinct usages even though English speakers are completely unaware of the difference. And yes, some language do treat them as separate sounds.

[SignalHillHiker]

Jesus. That was cool.

[kwoldtimer]

When I lived in South Africa, I remember being amazed and impressed by white people who could do the "clicks" of the Xhosa language. That had to take some serious practice!

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

What's cool is that many of these sound differences we can't hear that we think don't exist actually do exist in our language at the unconscious level. For example, English has two acoustically distinct "n" sounds. Native anglophones, say "one book" and then say "one thing". If you pay close attention to your tongue as you say them, you'll notice that when you say the "n" in "one thing", your tongue makes contact directly with your teeth, whereas when you say the "n" in "one book", it doesn't. This is the distinction between the 'dental n' and the 'alveolar n'. In most dialects of English the dental n occurs only when the n is preceded by certain types of sounds, for example "th". So the two sounds do have distinct usages even though English speakers are completely unaware of the difference. And yes, some language do treat them as separate sounds.

Whoa, great explanation on that. Hadn't ever occurred to me.

[Nashe]

Little wonder many have such a hard time with English. The only saviour of it's patch-work vocabulary and pronunciation is the fact that everybody is used to hearing people just mash through it best they can and tend to cut some slack. Not like... say... the French.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Little wonder many have such a hard time with English. The only saviour of it's patch-work vocabulary and pronunciation is the fact that everybody is used to hearing people just mash through it best they can and tend to cut some slack. Not like... say... the French.

Says the guy who lives in... Shediac.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yeah, but you also master written French better than the typical Joe Sixpack Québécois would, and IIRC you're basically fluent in both French and Spanish.

You're not exactly a representative sample for typical pronounciation limitations in Anglos. Although I'd be surprised if you could pronounce the French "u" (or German "ü" -- come to think of it, if your family tree isn't strictly Scottish, then maybe you had an ancestor or two from Berlin ON who passed that gene onto you) the right way. No one ever seems to achieve that except maybe Montreal Anglos who've spent their lives bathing in a pool of French since they were kids.

Well, you'd have to listen to me to decide. I do recall a French professor (a Belgian) instructing us to shape our mouths like a "cul de poule" and say "e". It seemed to work pretty well!

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Says the guy who lives in... Shediac.

Yeah, but we don't really speak French here, either. I'm pretty sure a Parisian would be more appalled at Chiac than at an Anglophone speaking (limited) school French. The latter would just get asked to switch to English. The former might be slain, I dunno.

There's a master chocolatier from France here (www.adorablechocolat.com) and I can only imagine what he thinks. I also know a professional French sommelier working in NB and when I ask him what he thinks he just smiles, quietly.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Vorkuta

Yeah, but we don't really speak French here, either. I'm pretty sure a Parisian would be more appalled at Chiac than at an Anglophone speaking (limited) school French. The latter would just get asked to switch to English. The former might be slain, I dunno.

There's a master chocolatier from France here (www.adorablechocolat.com) and I can only imagine what he thinks. I also know a professional French sommelier working in NB and when I ask him what he thinks he just smiles, quietly.

Some people are also more open-minded than one might think.

They may in fact find it to be an intriguing "local colour".

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Some people are also more open-minded than one might think. They may in fact find it to be an intriguing "local colour".

You're probably correct. Plus not showing disdain for your customers does help keep you in business, haha!

[SignalHillHiker]

Acajack, no idea if this author is local or not but is there anything in this French that's unusual to you?

http://www.curiositycraves.com/stories/2014/12/7/georgestown-bakery

C’est au 60 Hayward Avenue, près du centre-ville, que vous trouverez la renommée Georgestown Bakery. Si comme moi vous vous perdez au dédale des rues, ne vous inquiétez pas, l’odeur irrésistible des croissants sortants du four vous guideront jusqu’à une enseigne étonnamment flashy.

Sur fond rose, les lettres capitales Georgestown Bakery réveille le quartier et apporte en plus qu’une touche gourmande, un espace social où les gens viennent quotidiennement acheter leur baguette tout en échangeant quelques nouvelles du bout des lèvres, comme on le ferait en France.

D’ailleurs, les francophones de Terre-Neuve ne jurent que par cette adresse, où la recette du pain est « digne de la métropole ». Figure inimitable de la boulangerie ? Stephen. C’est après 10 ans passés au Québec, cette province inimitable où la culture franco-canadienne atteint son paroxysme, qu’il décide de revenir à St John’s pour établir son commerce. Mais comment en est-il arrivé là ? Sommes-nous boulanger par vocation ? « Avec un bac philosophie, je me voyais plutôt chansonnier » nous explique-t-il avec sincérité. Mais ce qu’il recherchait avant tout en faisant ce choix, c’est la sécurité… et des boulangers au Canada, on en cherche, spécialement avec un savoir-faire et un tour de main à l’européenne.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Acajack, no idea if this author is local or not but is there anything in this French that's unusual to you?

http://www.curiositycraves.com/stories/2014/12/7/georgestown-bakery

This is 100% conventional French. Good in Paris, Montreal, Dakar or Beirut.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Acajack, no idea if this author is local or not but is there anything in this French that's unusual to you?

http://www.curiositycraves.com/stories/2014/12/7/georgestown-bakery

A few spelling errors, a few slightly incorrect turns of sentence, a couple strange choices of words that to me are a sign of a lot of time spent in an Anglo place, but overall, very well written still -- almost certainly a native speaker originally.

"Bac philosophie" gives away the fact the guy did his high school in France.

(That's something that can often cause misunderstandings... "bac" in Quebec is an university bachelor's degree, in France it's the high school degree.)


But yeah, if that's your question, that article could very well have been written in Quebec by a Québécois (even though the baker is French). There's nothing "unusual". It's standard written French.

[SignalHillHiker]

Right on. Thanks!

I think the baker is actually Anglophone. His surname is Lewis and he has a normal West End of STJs accent in his interview.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Right on. Thanks!

I think the baker is actually Anglophone. His surname is Lewis and he has a normal West End of STJs accent in his interview.

Yeah, I didn't click on the link... I see his name now.

Then it means the interviewer is French, because he/she translated Stephen's academic credentials to something 100% France-specific that would've meant something else entirely to Québécois not familiar with the French school system (i.e. most of them by far).

[SignalHillHiker]

I totally didn't see that the page provided the author's name. It's Priscillia Cassuto. She is from Nice, and came to teach at Memorial for 8 months.

She has a hilarious article about her culture shock on MUN's student paper page:

http://themuse.ca/2014/09/21/first-impressions-of-a-frenchie-in-newfoundland/

[lio45]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I totally didn't see that the page provided the author's name. It's Priscillia Cassuto. She is from Nice, and came to teach at Memorial for 8 months.

Just like my dad's family! Cool.

The area joined France only recently (1860) and all the "true" locals have Italian-sounding family names, I'm not surprised.

(Wonder how she likes the weather in St. John's...)

It always takes a little bit of time to explain every time people ask if my family name is Italian. ("Actually French." "... but it sounds Italian?")

It's a bit like you. You're from Canada now. My dad's family is from what nowadays is France, but more accurately, they're from this place:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Savoy


/off-topic

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Just like my dad's family! Cool.

The area joined France only recently (1860) and all the "true" locals have Italian-sounding family names, I'm not surprised.

(Wonder how she likes the weather in St. John's...)

It always takes a little bit of time to explain every time people ask if my family name is Italian. ("Actually French." "... but it sounds Italian?")

It's a bit like you. You're from Canada now. My dad's family is from what nowadays is France, but more accurately, they're from this place:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Savoy


/off-topic

So your name is Lio Grimaldi?